Can a UV filter affect IQ (sharpness) on a lens?

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jebrady03 said:
Says who? Canon? If Canon says it's weather sealed, shouldn't that mean it's weather sealed without a filter? I'm not doubting you, just requesting a reference.
Canon themselves in the user manual for the lenses that need it (it's mostly the wide-angles I believe)

The-Digital-Picture sums it up
...the 16-35 L II is fully weather sealed to protect against dust and moisture only when a filter (typically a UV Filter) is in place like all of the other current-at-this-time sealed non-super telephoto lenses). Even though the extending inside portion of the lens barrel is gasketed, This filter is necessary to fully seal the lens. The lens does not change in overall size, but the inner barrel extends to its maximum near 28mm from its minimum at 16mm. A filter completely encloses this movement - and does not rotate. Mouse over the pic below to see the limits of movement.
It's the paragraph early on right above the picture of the front lens element

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-16-35mm-f-2.8-L-II-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
 
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The only filter that makes sense would be a polarizer and that's due to it's special purpose. Any additional glass in the path will affect IQ. It becomes especially apparent using longer focal lengths and lenses that are already as sharp as the Hubble Space Telecope. In addition, the flat surfaces also tend to cause more internal reflections and ghosting, even ones that are multicoated. Many of Canons lenses use meniscus front lenses that are slightly curved to reduce this effect. Adding a filter on the front just defeats the engineering.

Never use a filter unless you have a specific need for it and are willing to accept some loss of IQ.
 
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SambalOelek said:
EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L USM 
EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L II USM 
EF 17-40mm f/4 L USM
EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM

Yes, these lenses state the requirement in the manual - all have either an 'extending' zoom or front focus mechanism that moves within the barrel and behind the plane of the filter threads.

In addition, in an email exchange with Chuck Westfall, he recommended using a filter on any 'sealed' L-series which accepts a filter if the lens is to be used in wet conditions.
 
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I did an aperature sharpness test using Focal and every UV filter I tested showed a 8-15% reduction in the Focal focus scores. The better filters affected the number less but I was amazed that they all showed atleast a 8-10% reduction in the scores. I figured a UV filter would degrade image quality but it was nice to put an actual number on it.
 
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Here's a Focal report on a 70-200 version one with and without the filter. It's a friends lens so I'll find out the exact filter.

This one was a good bit more then 10%

f/8.0 no filter 835.7
f/8.0 with filter 648.7

Just for kicks I put on my 70-200 II with no filter at f/8.0 and got 1246.5 so my II was significantly sharper than his I.
 

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npc2396 said:
Here's a Focal report on a 70-200 version one with and without the filter. It's a friends lens so I'll find out the exact filter.

This one was a good bit more then 10%

f/8.0 no filter 835.7
f/8.0 with filter 648.7

Just for kicks I put on my 70-200 II with no filter at f/8.0 and got 1246.5 so my II was significantly sharper than his I.

Interesting, There is a slight degradation but the original 70-200MM wasn't that great of a lens anyway. Plus It could be a terrible uncoated filter with horrid glass.

Can you tell me if I used a UV filter here? (The answer should be obvious ;D)
 

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Tymo93 said:
My 50mm 1.4 believe it or not is sharper with the UV filter... :))

Interestingly he had a 1.4 that did fair better. Some aperatures the filtered lens was sharper but overall the unfiltered lens performed better. I contributed this to the focus consistansty of the 1.4 it's good but a variation of 10% seems common.
 
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RLPhoto said:
npc2396 said:
Here's a Focal report on a 70-200 version one with and without the filter. It's a friends lens so I'll find out the exact filter.

This one was a good bit more then 10%

f/8.0 no filter 835.7
f/8.0 with filter 648.7

Just for kicks I put on my 70-200 II with no filter at f/8.0 and got 1246.5 so my II was significantly sharper than his I.

Interesting, There is a slight degradation but the original 70-200MM wasn't that great of a lens anyway. Plus It could be a terrible uncoated filter with horrid glass.

Can you tell me if I used a UV filter here? (The answer should be obvious ;D)

Of course you did, otherwise you lens would have exploded!

Seriously, since its a nice sharp image I'm assuming you didn't use a filter and are trying to prove a point. So you think that kind of sharpness is impossible with a filter? Tell that to all the landscape shooters who use ND filters for a nice exposure. Landscape is more sharpness demanding than portraiture.

Nice shot by the way.
 
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Tcapp said:
RLPhoto said:
npc2396 said:
Here's a Focal report on a 70-200 version one with and without the filter. It's a friends lens so I'll find out the exact filter.

This one was a good bit more then 10%

f/8.0 no filter 835.7
f/8.0 with filter 648.7

Just for kicks I put on my 70-200 II with no filter at f/8.0 and got 1246.5 so my II was significantly sharper than his I.

Interesting, There is a slight degradation but the original 70-200MM wasn't that great of a lens anyway. Plus It could be a terrible uncoated filter with horrid glass.

Can you tell me if I used a UV filter here? (The answer should be obvious ;D)

Of course you did, otherwise you lens would have exploded!

Seriously, since its a nice sharp image I'm assuming you didn't use a filter and are trying to prove a point. So you think that kind of sharpness is impossible with a filter? Tell that to all the landscape shooters who use ND filters for a nice exposure. Landscape is more sharpness demanding than portraiture.

Nice shot by the way.

Thanks Broskie, I have a Filter to seal my 50mm 1.2L. There was massive amounts of water hitting my 7D that day and I was soaked but everything was tip-top.

I agree with you all the way, I was trying to prove that excellent filters wont degrade your photos. Landscapers will appreciate the excellent quality filters from B&W and Schneider Optics because they have null effect on real-life IQ.
 
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RLPhoto said:
Tcapp said:
RLPhoto said:
npc2396 said:
Here's a Focal report on a 70-200 version one with and without the filter. It's a friends lens so I'll find out the exact filter.

This one was a good bit more then 10%

f/8.0 no filter 835.7
f/8.0 with filter 648.7

Just for kicks I put on my 70-200 II with no filter at f/8.0 and got 1246.5 so my II was significantly sharper than his I.

Interesting, There is a slight degradation but the original 70-200MM wasn't that great of a lens anyway. Plus It could be a terrible uncoated filter with horrid glass.

Can you tell me if I used a UV filter here? (The answer should be obvious ;D)

Of course you did, otherwise you lens would have exploded!

Seriously, since its a nice sharp image I'm assuming you didn't use a filter and are trying to prove a point. So you think that kind of sharpness is impossible with a filter? Tell that to all the landscape shooters who use ND filters for a nice exposure. Landscape is more sharpness demanding than portraiture.

Nice shot by the way.

Thanks Broskie, I have a Filter to seal my 50mm 1.2L. There was massive amounts of water hitting my 7D that day and I was soaked but everything was tip-top.

I agree with you all the way, I was trying to prove that excellent filters wont degrade your photos. Landscapers will appreciate the excellent quality filters from B&W and Schneider Optics because they have null effect on real-life IQ.

B&W are expensive, but they are awesome. I have a 10 stop ND from them. That is a crazy filter. Good times!
 
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RC said:
SambalOelek said:
jm345 said:
Is there a list anywhere for the Canon lenses that require a front filter for complete weather sealing?

EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L USM 
EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L II USM 
EF 17-40mm f/4 L USM
EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM

Another way to look at this is those lens which are vented and can (theoretically) suck in dust. It's probably wise to put a filter on the non WS, non L, 17-55 since it has been known to pick up dust. (actually I don't know where the vent is on this specific lens but you get the point).

There are vents around the front element, but dust may accumulate over time even if a filter is used. If necessary, however, it is very easy to remove the front element and get rid of the dust. The entire operation takes less than five minutes.
 
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Disclaimer: I have not read through all the answers yet. But I do have a strong opinion on this subject, based I believe on experience and accurate measurements.

A UV filter always affects image quality, including sharpness. It lowers performance in sharpness, contrast, transmission, etc., by at least 5%. For some filters, more than 10%. That's doesn't sound bad considering that the Sony SLT cameras absorb 33% of light (transmission only), but here we are talking about a 5% or more reduction in every optical characteristic of the lens, not just transmission.

It gets worse the larger the area of the filter. So for 18-55mm lenses it's not really important. But for a 300mm f/2.8 lens, it would be ridiculous.

A 5% reduction across the board is enough to take away the $5000 benefit of owning exotic glass.

I never use UV filters (unless I am taking photos directly in the face of flying rocks or other objects--I do own filters for that purpose, and of course other filters that have actual purposes). There are clueless photographers who won't buy used lenses from me as a result, and they are the same people who set lenses on their side rolling all over the place because they are afraid to set them face down the way they were designed.

Also, I clean my lenses very sparingly. More damage is done by excessive cleaning than by any dust or dirt on the lens. I have had dirt cascade into the front hood of my 300mm and get on the lens, and it was barely noticeable in the images. Take note that the dirt doesn't reflect light very well, so the image quality degradation was only in proportion to the actual square inches of the grains of dirt that were on the lens. It was a much smaller effect than caused by a UV filter. Dirt has great anti-reflective characteristics, I have observed. So by putting a UV filter on your lens, you are basically doing worse than covering it with a light coating of dirt.

And my lens was fine. Just a brush off and it was indistinguishable from the day I purchased it.
 
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Dylan777 said:
7enderbender said:
I leave clear filters on all of my lenses except the 50 1.4. On the latter I always (!) leave the lens hood on because the little motor and/or clutch in that lens can break from mechanical strain coming from the moving front element.I personally can't see ANY difference in image quality and can't really imagine where it would be coming form.

+1...same here

+1 too.... when I got my 24-70mm L lens i wanted a really good filter solely for protection so I did a bit of online research and opted for a clear Hoya HD (even watched the Youtube video of steel ball-bearings being dropped on it from a height!). It works great. Tested with vs w/o, no difference

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/HOYA-77mm-Protector-HD-High-Definition-Filter-77-New-UK-/120901742208?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraLensesFilters_JN&hash=item1c264e2e80#ht_3303wt_904
 
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SambalOelek said:
RC said:
SambalOelek said:
jm345 said:
Is there a list anywhere for the Canon lenses that require a front filter for complete weather sealing?

EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L USM 
EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L II USM 
EF 17-40mm f/4 L USM
EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM

Another way to look at this is those lens which are vented and can (theoretically) suck in dust. It's probably wise to put a filter on the non WS, non L, 17-55 since it has been known to pick up dust. (actually I don't know where the vent is on this specific lens but you get the point).

There are vents around the front element, but dust may accumulate over time even if a filter is used. If necessary, however, it is very easy to remove the front element and get rid of the dust. The entire operation takes less than five minutes.

I have a 17-55 IS and use it with a B+W MRC UV Filter which is always on. I still tend to get dust particles inside, this lens is notorious for this. I had it sent to Canon one time for cleaning (and to replace the IS motor, total was like $130). There are some small dust particles again inside but it never shows up in the pictures.
 
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