Canon 5D MKIV from a Video Perspective

[jr1]

because both those units are fan cooled and use DiGiC DV which is entirely different then the DiGiC's that are in cameras. if you note neither the XC10 nor the C300 have much in the way of stills options.

then you have the cooling .. both are active cooled, which would not work well in a sealed camera environment.

Be great for you to stop talking about things you have little experience with.

Hence I said if they were serious about the 5D being a video camera. A variant of XF-AVC could have been implemented if they really wanted to. Realistically, if XF-AVC is what Canon are going to bolster their video cameras around, it would make more sense to attempt to implement a version than opt for MJPEG. Don't underestimate Sony's consistency of codec and log implementation.

Obviously it's not a video camera, and is not designed to be. Yet many complain about this or that that it doesn't have.

It's a great stills camera that allows you to shoot video. It's probably not the best option if all you want to shoot is video.

I just wanted to clear up the misinformation that MJPEG is inherently better than H.264. The fact is, it depends on the implementation, and it's incorrect to suggest that simply using an H.264 codec makes the image inferior.

 

[JamesDrum]

DON'T TRUST EBRAHIM SAADAWI! This guy stole money from members in EOSHD forum by creating fake postings.

Read it yourself:
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?page=37

 

[Mikehit]

DON'T TRUST EBRAHIM SAADAWI! This guy stole money from members in EOSHD forum by creating fake postings.

Read it yourself:
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?page=37

So you join the forum to tell us that, when he is not actually selling anything?

 

[Jack Douglas]

DON'T TRUST EBRAHIM SAADAWI! This guy stole money from members in EOSHD forum by creating fake postings.

Read it yourself:
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?page=37

So you join the forum to tell us that, when he is not actually selling anything?

Will CR get back to normality in a few days. I sure hope so.

Jack

 

[rrcphoto]

because both those units are fan cooled and use DiGiC DV which is entirely different then the DiGiC's that are in cameras. if you note neither the XC10 nor the C300 have much in the way of stills options.

then you have the cooling .. both are active cooled, which would not work well in a sealed camera environment.

Be great for you to stop talking about things you have little experience with.

Hence I said if they were serious about the 5D being a video camera. A variant of XF-AVC could have been implemented if they really wanted to. Realistically, if XF-AVC is what Canon are going to bolster their video cameras around, it would make more sense to attempt to implement a version than opt for MJPEG. Don't underestimate Sony's consistency of codec and log implementation.

Obviously it's not a video camera, and is not designed to be. Yet many complain about this or that that it doesn't have.

It's a great stills camera that allows you to shoot video. It's probably not the best option if all you want to shoot is video.

I just wanted to clear up the misinformation that MJPEG is inherently better than H.264. The fact is, it depends on the implementation, and it's incorrect to suggest that simply using an H.264 codec makes the image inferior.

everything says they COULD NOT put XF-AVC into the 5D mark IV, especially if they could not with the 1DX Mark II with it's larger heatsink and piping, and massive battery.

the XC10 vents hot air to the outside and has fans to support XF-AVC .. how do you do that with a full weather sealed camera body?

there's no evidence that canon has the technology to process h.264 XF-AVC efficiently enough to work in a sealed camera. at. all.

to be honest .. by reading EOSHD who DOES have a love in with Sony .. everyone is frustrated with Sony's LOG and CODEC.

MJPEG is better for accuracy, but not for efficiency in codec storage and also transcoding to another format. it's also not optimized for today's PC's and laptops.

however you can grab a screen capture from the actual image with no losses by taking a inherently compressed image that is a delta between two consecutive frames (which is H.264,etc).

there's less potential for compression artifacts and blocking with MJPEG than with h.264,etc - however it's simply unwieldy.

 

[jayphotoworks]

DON'T TRUST EBRAHIM SAADAWI! This guy stole money from members in EOSHD forum by creating fake postings.

Read it yourself:
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?page=37

So you join the forum to tell us that, when he is not actually selling anything?

Will CR get back to normality in a few days. I sure hope so.

Jack

I was just about to reply to the OP until I got to the scammed part. I then hopped over to EOSHD just read the entire thread (skipping a few pages in the process). Basically this:

a) Ebrahim Saadawi is a 21 year old dentist in Egypt who everyone thought was a 61 year old filmmaker with many decades of filmmaking experience.

b) He's been leaving comments and technical commentary under that 61 year old filmmaker guise.

c) He did a review on a SLR Magic Rangefinder and then sold it to 3 separate EOSHD members and never shipped the lens.

d) He left a reply when confronted on Facebook that "You just got ripped off, and there is nothing you can do about it." basically rubbed it in the victim's faces.

e) After the mods intervened and much investigation by online members, his identity was revealed and he was compelled to return the money scammed and actually send the lens out.

f) After this, it was realized that he actually only shoots with a Canon Rebel T3, and has never used any of the equipment he reviewed previously (1DC, etc.) and he claimed his equipment was stolen to avoid scrutiny.

d) After an exhaustive 48 page thread over there, he actually sent the lens out, but never returned the rest of the money.

 

[Loswr]

Will CR get back to normality in a few days. I sure hope so.

Typically the crazy in the run-up to a big launch runs a few days past the announcement, dies back a bit, then heats up again as more reviews/tests start showing up. Then things calm down...except for a little blip when DxO publishes their Scores.

Then again...what's 'normal'?

 

[rrcphoto]

Will CR get back to normality in a few days. I sure hope so.

Typically the crazy in the run-up to a big launch runs a few days past the announcement, dies back a bit, then heats up again as more reviews/tests start showing up. Then things calm down...except for a little blip when DxO publishes their Scores.

Then again...what's 'normal'?

no the day of the announcement. the Internet will break with all the people signing up and putting in their first post on how they are going to switch to Sony because canon's lost the plot.

then after that, things will die off a bit until reviews. which .. by the sounds of it, will start to come out REALLY shortly after announcement.

 

[Loswr]

no the day of the announcement. the Internet will break

The most concurrent CR users online was 18Dec2013. As near as I can tell, the only news event of the day was that DxO announced Optics Pro support for the Nikon Df.

 

[rrcphoto]

no the day of the announcement. the Internet will break

The most concurrent CR users online was 18Dec2013. As near as I can tell, the only news event of the day was that DxO announced Optics Pro support for the Nikon Df.

the start of school holidays? I have long suspected the age group of some posters...

 

[Jack Douglas]

no the day of the announcement. the Internet will break

The most concurrent CR users online was 18Dec2013. As near as I can tell, the only news event of the day was that DxO announced Optics Pro support for the Nikon Df.

the start of school holidays? I have long suspected the age group of some posters...

Yes, maybe that's it. I have readjusted my perspective so I can just laugh it off. It is kind of funny in a way.

Jack

 

[hne]

because both those units are fan cooled and use DiGiC DV which is entirely different then the DiGiC's that are in cameras. if you note neither the XC10 nor the C300 have much in the way of stills options.

then you have the cooling .. both are active cooled, which would not work well in a sealed camera environment.

Be great for you to stop talking about things you have little experience with.

Hence I said if they were serious about the 5D being a video camera. A variant of XF-AVC could have been implemented if they really wanted to. Realistically, if XF-AVC is what Canon are going to bolster their video cameras around, it would make more sense to attempt to implement a version than opt for MJPEG. Don't underestimate Sony's consistency of codec and log implementation.

Obviously it's not a video camera, and is not designed to be. Yet many complain about this or that that it doesn't have.

It's a great stills camera that allows you to shoot video. It's probably not the best option if all you want to shoot is video.

I just wanted to clear up the misinformation that MJPEG is inherently better than H.264. The fact is, it depends on the implementation, and it's incorrect to suggest that simply using an H.264 codec makes the image inferior.

everything says they COULD NOT put XF-AVC into the 5D mark IV, especially if they could not with the 1DX Mark II with it's larger heatsink and piping, and massive battery.

the XC10 vents hot air to the outside and has fans to support XF-AVC .. how do you do that with a full weather sealed camera body?

there's no evidence that canon has the technology to process h.264 XF-AVC efficiently enough to work in a sealed camera. at. all.

to be honest .. by reading EOSHD who DOES have a love in with Sony .. everyone is frustrated with Sony's LOG and CODEC.

MJPEG is better for accuracy, but not for efficiency in codec storage and also transcoding to another format. it's also not optimized for today's PC's and laptops.

however you can grab a screen capture from the actual image with no losses by taking a inherently compressed image that is a delta between two consecutive frames (which is H.264,etc).

there's less potential for compression artifacts and blocking with MJPEG than with h.264,etc - however it's simply unwieldy.

You guys are wrong on so many points that it almost hurts. Please let me ruin a perfectly fine, if a bit heated, debate with a few facts:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Canon crammed 4K XF-AVC Intra into the kit-lens-sized body of the XC-10. The heat vent has more to do with size than heat production: The camera uses the same battery as the 5DmkIV will and manages 2h recording time - slightly longer than the 5DmkIII does on a single battery charge. This translates into a total system power draw of 6.5 watt. You can vent that through rubber (6 times less heat conductive than glass) no problem.
[*]My phone does h264 encoded 4K at an even lower bitrate. Lower bitrate means more effort encoding it. You don't need no magic DiGiC DV for that stuff. Any SoC producer can give you chips capable of that.
[*]XF-AVC Intra is h264 in an MXF container at up to 305Mbps. Real broadcast tech. Would be awsome to have in consumer electronics for once. Different variants of h264 in MXF container are used as both production and archival format for broadcasters around the world, for example in the form of AVCIntra100 for HD. Might be a bit partial here since it's what I do for a living.
[*]The Intra-variants of h264 (like AVCIntra and the All-I choice in recent Canon dSLRs) do no predictive encoding. Each frame is encoded separately, just as with MJPEG.
[*]H264 intra frames make more efficient use (roughly a factor 2) of the available bits than the JPEG compression used in MJPEG. At a given bit rate, this means you'd get better quality with H264 (such as AVCIntra, XF-AVC Intra or Canons All-I MP4-wrapped h264) than MJPEG. The only upside with the MJPEG compression is the ability to extract a JPEG still without recoding it, if you got the framing perfect and don't have to do any postprocessing at all for your stills delivery.
[*]MJPEG was optimised for realtime encoding on computer hardware that is now two decades old. We've now got h264 hardware en- and decoding built into our CPUs, GPUs, phones... even the raspberry pi has it!
[/list]

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

No body is so wrong. They're just contributing. Be nice. Anyway. Let's be objective for a while and think if Canon had a better option or not. First of all, we know, from inside canon, and common reason, that their new awesome XF-AVC codec CANNOT be implemented in a 1D style SLR, because dslrs are locked off devices and don't have the place for the latge processor dedicated and active cooling. If you don't believe CANon on this, look at all their XF-AVC cameras and see if they have loud fans or not (a 5d with an open fan is NO option). Currently the codec is used in the Canon C300 MKII, and XC10, and camcorder large XF line. Still don't trust them, okay look at sny, they have the EXACT same situation. Their high end broadcast codec if XAVC-I they use that in large active cooled cinema cameras like the FS7, F5, F55. So why doesn't sony carry that to they smaller cameras while they seem to be so aggressive and wanting to? They find a solution which is just make a completely regular h.264 codec with 100mbps and 4:2:0, just like AVCHD. And call it XAVC-S. And now that the weak h.264 codec they use for 4K in all their cameras. So after proving they simply couldn't implement a high end XFAVC codec in the 5D, what best could they do? Find a codec with Brosdcast quality that can still be used. There comes the choice of MJPEG. Is it efficient? NO, we are giving up on efficiency here that you get with an h.264 codec but getting instead a broadcast, 4:2:2, 500mbps image that can be graded intensively and has little to zero artefacts. (btw XFAVC 405mbps 422 would gave the same down side you here seem to slaughter, latge files!) but anyway. Canon gave me a solution to shoot broadcast/film quality video while sony/samsung/others give no option rather measly old 100mbps h.264 4:2:0. Which is better for a film maker? It's not worth discussing, any filmmaker aside from those shooting home videos and birthdays would choose the mjpeg for its superior image (no shame in shooting that, we shoot our kids birthdays too even pro film people)... And for that application, Canon gives you your belved efficient tiny h,264 in HD up to 60 for that ''real' feeling. Not sure who would be upset with Canon codec decision in the 1Dc, 1dxii, 5dvi.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

DON'T TRUST EBRAHIM SAADAWI! This guy stole money from members in EOSHD forum by creating fake postings.

Read it yourself:
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?page=37

So you join the forum to tell us that, when he is not actually selling anything?

Will CR get back to normality in a few days. I sure hope so.

Jack

Stalking me all over with a topic thread in your hand from an online forum trying to make anyone around seem like I am a scammer, is absolutely stupid. Nobody cares. Not a single one of my fb or twitter or instagram friends who got cares, zero. No body also cares about an internet trial. Rather than have some laughs. So save (wow seems a lot if work) your time for something else. Or keep posting behind me, I don't mind either.

 

[jayphotoworks]

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/08/depth-look-video-specs-canon-5d-mark-iv/

This is an overview of what the 5Div brings to the table for video with some references to its peers.

 

[tpatana]

Stalking me all over with a topic thread in your hand from an online forum trying to make anyone around seem like I am a scammer, is absolutely stupid. Nobody cares. Not a single one of my fb or twitter or instagram friends who got cares, zero. No body also cares about an internet trial. Rather than have some laughs. So save (wow seems a lot if work) your time for something else. Or keep posting behind me, I don't mind either.

If you're some young dude with Rebel but talk like old experienced video dude who has extensive amount of experience about film production shoots with 1DC, yes, you should be called out for that. You're just pathetic, and hopefully you fixed the items you scammed people for.

Also, while writing, at random intervals try hitting the funny big key above right shift. Usually twice in a row. It'd make reading much easier.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Stalking me all over with a topic thread in your hand from an online forum trying to make anyone around seem like I am a scammer, is absolutely stupid. Nobody cares. Not a single one of my fb or twitter or instagram friends who got cares, zero. No body also cares about an internet trial. Rather than have some laughs. So save (wow seems a lot if work) your time for something else. Or keep posting behind me, I don't mind either.

If you're some young dude with Rebel but talk like old experienced video dude who has extensive amount of experience about film production shoots with 1DC, yes, you should be called out for that. You're just pathetic, and hopefully you fixed the items you scammed people for.

Also, while writing, at random intervals try hitting the funny big key above right shift. Usually twice in a row. It'd make reading much easier.

Similar thoughts to mine except that the internet is a place where talk is cheap with anonymity and social media lynch mobbing is troubling. So how does one get the full facts to make a judgment? We've had a week or two of all kinds of commentary, extravagant claims, insults, you name it.

Jack

 

[shooter_]

What the hell?
You know who Ebrahim Saadawi is?
There are guys scammed on EOSHD, you know? Hey, hey, scammed, stolen by a crook, ok?
Go there, read the threads, all is public, educate yourself.
Same item sold to different people. Same scam over Western Union. Same guy over two identities. Lies from his filthy keyboard over more lies.

He taunts all those who differ from him on this point he claims to be a decent dentistry student. Here, there and everywhere. Keeps his own name, making a name on dirt track, imagine so? Lousy try to divert attention from his scams. To make a victim of. An actual coward, laughing on judgement day.
Maybe culture is the bitch...
Others say....oh damned internet!
Disagreed.
You are a shame to Egypt, dude.
There are thieves anywhere. Uncovered there for the con artist he is, he came here.
Beware. He doesn't scam his friends, family. Anonymous posters are his target. He only started to scam people from highest rated accounts. This guy is the worst Internet has. Cameras are his hobby. Scams to follow.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

The only one Sony people can really go up with, is if the 4K mode is really a crop. 1.7x crop. It would kind of disappoint me too really because I want to shoot 5D for the FF, not have to buy a FF camera to get good APS-C S35 video. But you can really think of it as ideal from another perspective, as you'd maybe have the industry standard FF camera for still and a standard s35 video/cinema camera in one package.

Fiddling with FF DOF in motion is NOT FUN! But I do want it.

 

[pokerz]

The only one Sony people can really go up with, is if the 4K mode is really a crop. 1.7x crop. It would kind of disappoint me too really because I want to shoot 5D for the FF, not have to buy a FF camera to get good APS-C S35 video. But you can really think of it as ideal from another perspective, as you'd maybe have the industry standard FF camera for still and a standard s35 video/cinema camera in one package.

Fiddling with FF DOF in motion is NOT FUN! But I do want it.

1.74x is not far from M43, which m43 can use speed booster to recover FF DOF.