CANON 5DS REVIEW BY FERNANDO GUERRA

[ecqns]

In this article and other marketing materials by Canon I am dumbfounded by the quality of the samples they use to feature these cameras. I really wonder how these decisions are made. Even recently I saw much more interesting and technically appropriate samples from the new Sony 35mm Zeiss lens.

And from an architectural point of view I'd say 90% of images are made on a tripod. Quick details or documentation don't need to be on a tripod but just about everything else is.

 

[keithcooper]

Hey Keith, that looked like a fun experiment! The "use a MF lens with TS adapter" would seem more applicable, and might be interesting for those who have MF lenses gathering dust in their storage, but if you don't have MF lenses or need really wide TS, why bother with adapters when Canon has made good equipment already?

I do have a set of M645 lenses that I use with a shift adapter, but I've found I don't have enough use for shifted longer focal lengths to buy new ones ;-) Although, if they do actually update the TS-E45, I might well get one, since the quality is likely to be very high.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/lenses/m645-shift.html

Tilt is a somewhat different matter - it's not something I make much use of at the wider end (maybe sometimes to photograph walls/ceilings/floors).

 

[keithcooper]

... And from an architectural point of view I'd say 90% of images are made on a tripod. Quick details or documentation don't need to be on a tripod but just about everything else is.

Completely agree - I may dislike using tripods for landscape, but for -paying- architectural work it's likewise 90%+

That said, I feel that learning to use a shift lens hand-held has worked wonders for my visual perception of verticals and composition ... YMMV ;-)

 

[ecqns]

That said, I feel that learning to use a shift lens hand-held has worked wonders for my visual perception of verticals and composition ... YMMV ;-)

I started photography using large format mostly so when I shoot landscapes I personally get better results working slow. When I shoot quickly I don't like what I get as much as when I use a tripod and work more deliberately. But I do shoot street/landscapes with the 45mm TS-E handheld too and like what I get using tilt for selective selective focus.

But for architecture I work with slow shutter speeds so its usually a tripod and I'm fine with that.

 

[keithcooper]

That said, I feel that learning to use a shift lens hand-held has worked wonders for my visual perception of verticals and composition ... YMMV ;-)

I started photography using large format mostly so when I shoot landscapes I personally get better results working slow. When I shoot quickly I don't like what I get as much as when I use a tripod and work more deliberately. But I do shoot street/landscapes with the 45mm TS-E handheld too and like what I get using tilt for selective selective focus.

But for architecture I work with slow shutter speeds so its usually a tripod and I'm fine with that.

Yes, likewise for the architectural work.

I've heard of the 'more deliberate' thing for landscape for a long while but whenever I've tried it, it just irritated me more than helped... :-(

I guess it's because unless I'm waiting for light, all my favourite (daylight) work has had an element of immediacy. Almost like street photography, but on a 'bigger scale'.

I realise that's not the received wisdom in this area, but never mind ;-)

 

[Dig_it]

As a working architectural photographer I find many things in this "article" that cause me to doubt it's usefulness.

- using iso 3200 & 6400
- not using a tripod all the time
- shooting & delivering jpgs to clients
- shooting with a crop ratio applied

These and other images online I've seen from same photographer are not at the level my clients expect.
I mean if canon pays me and gives me a camera I'd say what they want but there's nothing here that relates to professional architectural photography.

This is a good discussion!

Also, as a working architectural photographer, I agree with some of your comments, however IMHO Fernando Guerra is a phenomenally talented and prolific architectural photographer whose work complements beautifully the work of contemporary Portuguese and Spanish architects. He is at least in same class as Iwan Baan and Helene Binet, and one of the world's very best.

That aside -

His jpeg comment is disingenuous - I couldn't imagine a professional using jpeg only except for the most quick and dirty jobs (storage is so cheap, why restrict yourself?). By his own admission he works quickly and doesn't always nail the exposure so it would seem quite restrictive to only shoot jpeg. White balance correction is also an important part of post production and while in theory you could dial in the correct WB each time, I can't see this happening. It's just one extra parameter to worry about while shooting and very difficult to balance the colour on a series of shots after the fact with JPEG.

Shooting without tripod is indeed possible in many circumstances with negligible penalty however every thing has its time and place - I doubt he would shoot handheld after dusk or in a very low light interior.

I think composing with crop mode might come in handy sometimes, but again for flexibility it would be better to capture the shot in full resolution, even if just to give some breathing room for framing once the image has been straightened etc. (which undoubtedly is almost always needed when shooting architecture handheld).

There is an application for ISO 3200 or 6400 for architecture, albeit somewhat limited - aerial photography most notably at night, or possibly other low light photography where it is desirable to freeze the motion of people etc. This is a strong point of FG's work - you can see many instances of low light with non-blurry people (I don't think they are necessarily standing perfectly still!).

 

[ecqns]

however IMHO Fernando Guerra is a phenomenally talented and prolific architectural photographer whose work complements beautifully the work of contemporary Portuguese and Spanish architects. He is at least in same class as Iwan Baan and Helene Binet, and one of the world's very best

I don't know about that. I've seen work from those mentioned and wondered if they could have shot on a day with better light or been more interesting in post production. I think travel schedules for some of the big time people could be an issue. About the article - I saw samples that were much less precise than what I've come to expect and produce in my market.

 

[StudentOfLight]

... And from an architectural point of view I'd say 90% of images are made on a tripod. Quick details or documentation don't need to be on a tripod but just about everything else is.

Completely agree - I may dislike using tripods for landscape, but for -paying- architectural work it's likewise 90%+

That said, I feel that learning to use a shift lens hand-held has worked wonders for my visual perception of verticals and composition ... YMMV ;-)

+1 & +1 = +2

 

[StudentOfLight]

however IMHO Fernando Guerra is a phenomenally talented and prolific architectural photographer whose work complements beautifully the work of contemporary Portuguese and Spanish architects. He is at least in same class as Iwan Baan and Helene Binet, and one of the world's very best

I don't know about that. I've seen work from those mentioned and wondered if they could have shot on a day with better light or been more interesting in post production. I think travel schedules for some of the big time people could be an issue. About the article - I saw samples that were much less precise than what I've come to expect and produce in my market.

I'd be interested to see some of your work. Could you share a link to your portfolio? Do you blog about some of your images? I'm interested in the thought process when creating an image.

I mainly shoot events/portraiture and I've only shot RE/architecture/interiors casually, but am looking to develop my skills. At the moment I'm predominantly using the 16-35mm, 24mm lenses and 8mm fisheye for interiors.

Best regards,
O

 

[sanj]

Re: CANON 5DS "REVIEW" BY FERNANDO GUERRA

As another 'working architectural photographer' I also read this with interest... ;-)

I don't have a problem with using higher than base ISO settings and sometimes don't use a tripod - it depends on what you're shooting and what's needed. Not all architectural work is standing around producing giant files, and I've long disliked tripods for my landscapes (never bought into the 'slowness' argument). So, I'd strongly identify with much of what's said...

Not convinced I'd be inclined to send jpegs out of the camera, but the real bit that seemed to come directly from marketing was the stuff about crop modes - which seem to be predicated on using DPP (OK you do need it for pre-production cameras)

I use the TS-E17 and 24 a lot, but if I want something longer I can use a 1.4x TC with not a lot of loss of quality, or even one of my M645 lenses with a shift adapter.

So, it's interesting to see how the marketing department has spun this one. Looking forward to trying it myself -)

BTW Thanks for the mention of my home-brew Canon/5x4 adapter, but it really was just an experiment to play with movements. The mirror box gets in the way too easily, and I can't use it with short enough focal length lenses for my liking.
Still, enough to remind me that LF and film have no real part in my actual business ;-)

How different you and I are in these points. Totally opposite! Perhaps I do not have your experience and am too insecure.

 

[keithcooper]

Re: CANON 5DS "REVIEW" BY FERNANDO GUERRA

As another 'working architectural photographer' I also read this with interest... ;-)

I don't have a problem with using higher than base ISO settings and sometimes don't use a tripod - it depends on what you're shooting and what's needed. Not all architectural work is standing around producing giant files, and I've long disliked tripods for my landscapes (never bought into the 'slowness' argument). So, I'd strongly identify with much of what's said...

Not convinced I'd be inclined to send jpegs out of the camera, but the real bit that seemed to come directly from marketing was the stuff about crop modes - which seem to be predicated on using DPP (OK you do need it for pre-production cameras)

I use the TS-E17 and 24 a lot, but if I want something longer I can use a 1.4x TC with not a lot of loss of quality, or even one of my M645 lenses with a shift adapter.

So, it's interesting to see how the marketing department has spun this one. Looking forward to trying it myself -)

BTW Thanks for the mention of my home-brew Canon/5x4 adapter, but it really was just an experiment to play with movements. The mirror box gets in the way too easily, and I can't use it with short enough focal length lenses for my liking.
Still, enough to remind me that LF and film have no real part in my actual business ;-)

How different you and I are in these points. Totally opposite! Perhaps I do not have your experience and am too insecure.

Perhaps a different collection of experience, but the landscape thing comes partly from how I see them and the light.

There is a look at some of my ways at looking at a scene (and time taken) in an article I wrote about the making of a print, right from driving along and deciding I liked the view (yes, sometimes my 'deeper meaning' really is that simple ;-)

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/photo-tips/making_a_picture.html

I know the approach won't suit everyone, but I like it ;-)

 

[sanj]

Re: CANON 5DS "REVIEW" BY FERNANDO GUERRA

As another 'working architectural photographer' I also read this with interest... ;-)

I don't have a problem with using higher than base ISO settings and sometimes don't use a tripod - it depends on what you're shooting and what's needed. Not all architectural work is standing around producing giant files, and I've long disliked tripods for my landscapes (never bought into the 'slowness' argument). So, I'd strongly identify with much of what's said...

Not convinced I'd be inclined to send jpegs out of the camera, but the real bit that seemed to come directly from marketing was the stuff about crop modes - which seem to be predicated on using DPP (OK you do need it for pre-production cameras)

I use the TS-E17 and 24 a lot, but if I want something longer I can use a 1.4x TC with not a lot of loss of quality, or even one of my M645 lenses with a shift adapter.

So, it's interesting to see how the marketing department has spun this one. Looking forward to trying it myself -)

BTW Thanks for the mention of my home-brew Canon/5x4 adapter, but it really was just an experiment to play with movements. The mirror box gets in the way too easily, and I can't use it with short enough focal length lenses for my liking.
Still, enough to remind me that LF and film have no real part in my actual business ;-)

How different you and I are in these points. Totally opposite! Perhaps I do not have your experience and am too insecure.

Perhaps a different collection of experience, but the landscape thing comes partly from how I see them and the light.

There is a look at some of my ways at looking at a scene (and time taken) in an article I wrote about the making of a print, right from driving along and deciding I liked the view (yes, sometimes my 'deeper meaning' really is that simple ;-)

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/photo-tips/making_a_picture.html

I know the approach won't suit everyone, but I like it ;-)

Thank you. Lovely picture. In bright light I would not use a tripod (but would opt for a lens with IS). When light is low, I would whenever can use a tripod. That helps me get small aperture and low ISO.

 

[benperrin]

Unfortunately this was more of a commercial than a review. Still waiting on a price in Australia. I'm wanting to make a pre-order on the R version but no one will tell me their price.

 

[ecqns]

Re: CANON 5DS "REVIEW" BY FERNANDO GUERRA

I use the TS-E17 and 24 a lot, but if I want something longer I can use a 1.4x TC with not a lot of loss of quality,

Hi Keith,

You mention using the 1.4xTC - do you find that it gives good results? I bought a Contax 35mm PC - I guess I should rent a TC and see which is better. I do like the 24mm ergonomics much better than the Contax.

 

[ReTake]

I'm surprised that he didn't comment on the only 5 fps shooting rate. I'm going to talk about that in a review I'll post shortly after shooting with it for a couple of days last week.

 

[ecqns]

I'm surprised that he didn't comment on the only 5 fps shooting rate. I'm going to talk about that in a review I'll post shortly after shooting with it for a couple of days last week.

But what does fps have to do with architectural photography? Could be 1 fps and it would be fine.
BTW for the last few months I've been shooting jobs with the a7r and it's by far the best camera I've used for architecture. I don't think I'll go back to a Canon body even if they improve the DR. The Sony has many other little features that make shooting architecture so much easier - plus the sensor recovery is unbelievable.

 

[ReTake]

I'm surprised that he didn't comment on the only 5 fps shooting rate. I'm going to talk about that in a review I'll post shortly after shooting with it for a couple of days last week.

But what does fps have to do with architectural photography? Could be 1 fps and it would be fine.
BTW for the last few months I've been shooting jobs with the a7r and it's by far the best camera I've used for architecture. I don't think I'll go back to a Canon body even if they improve the DR. The Sony has many other little features that make shooting architecture so much easier - plus the sensor recovery is unbelievable.

FPS doesn't have anything to do with architectural photography, but it was a review of the 5DS, not a review of the 5DS as an architectural tool.

 

[ecqns]

FPS doesn't have anything to do with architectural photography, but it was a review of the 5DS, not a review of the 5DS as an architectural tool.

I believe a review from an architectural photographer pretty much shows it from the perspective as someone using it for architecture. I don't look at camera reviews from wedding or events people to get an idea of what a camera will do for architecture work.