Canon 7D vs Canon 60D - Can't decide which to upgrade to.

[RC]

I waited for 60D to be released before I made my decision to purchase a body back when the 60D was announced. I chose the 7D for various reasons. AF, AF micro adjustment (which I think is huge), FPS, build, and so on.

If it were I, I'd sell both lens and see if you can get anything out of the body, and put it towards a 7D, and good lens depending on what your needs are--15-85, 17-55, or maybe a 50 1.4 or 8. Check refurbs and CLP.

If weather sealing is truly important, you will need a sealed lens. In my case it wasn't until I was in a rain/sleet storm that prevented me from shooting when I decided to sell my 15-85 and replace it with a 16-35. Now all my lens are sealed. So maybe pick up something like a 50 1.8 (or just keep your 18-55) for now and save up for a sealed lens.

Aside from a damaged sensor, I think upgrading your body for ergonomic reasons is also a good valid.

 

[justsomedude]

If you are serious about a 7D, PLEASE do your due diligence and research it first.

Google the following phrases:

"7d vertical lines"
"7d soft focus"
"7d AF issues"
"Canon 7d lemon"

Don't get me wrong... I own a 7D and use it as a backup. However, when it was my primary body, it almost made me want to give up photography entirely. I had so many problems with it that I never used it. Went about 6 months without taking a photo because every shot I got out of it was garbage. The shots my 40D gave me were works of art compared to what the 7D crapped out. And now, with rumors that Canon may not even update the 7D (ie, discontinue the line after one version), it makes you wonder what Canon figured out with this unit.

 

[RC]

If you are serious about a 7D, PLEASE do your due diligence and research it first.

Google the following phrases:

"7d vertical lines"
"7d soft focus"
"7d AF issues"
"Canon 7d lemon"

Don't get me wrong... I own a 7D and use it as a backup. However, when it was my primary body, it almost made me want to give up photography entirely. I had so many problems with it that I never used it. Went about 6 months without taking a photo because every shot I got out of it was garbage. The shots my 40D gave me were works of art compared to what the 7D crapped out. And now, with rumors that Canon may not even update the 7D (ie, discontinue the line after one version), it makes you wonder what Canon figured out with this unit.

Bummer about all your problems, that definitely sucks. Maybe you had a lemon. I suspect you could google "anything lemon" and get all kinds of negative info. My experience is the 7D is a fantastic camera On the other hand I'm not expecting 5D image quality. Also there are equal rumors the 7D II is on the horizon--time will tell.

 

[justsomedude]

Bummer about all your problems, that definitely sucks. Maybe you had a lemon. I suspect you could google "anything lemon" and get all kinds of negative info. My experience is the 7D is a fantastic camera On the other hand I'm not expecting 5D image quality. Also there are equal rumors the 7D II is on the horizon--time will tell.

Honestly, I don't know what my problem was... I was incredibly unlucky with my 7D. Had every problem under the sun, from AF to the notorious "black lines". I had it into Canon Irvine so many damn times (I think 8 or 9 at this point) that Canon went so far as to replace the sensor on its last trip in.

That solved the banding issue for the most part, but AF is still hit or miss. I don't mind the "softness" much anymore - I realize an 18MP crop-sensor (that is now almost three-years old) is gonna have heck of an AA filter on it - but the missed focus is still what chaps my ass.

It's infuriating seeing images that look sharp on the LCD, only to pull them up in Lightroom later to find the focal plane is 5-6" off where it should be. It's not a deal breaker, I've just developed an "understanding," shall we say, for my 7D. I don't shoot it wide open, I don't point-and-shoot (I really have to take care to make sure my AF is spot-on), and I don't use anything but L glass on it. With those rules I can get some great shots out of it... just sucks that a $2,000 camera-body has "rules" for getting good keepers from it.

Meh.

 

[RAKAMRAK]

Dear Synomis, let me tell you about my recent experience, it might help. I myself is on a very tight budget and I do not earn a single cent from my photography. My interest in photography is very recent (just one year or so old). First I bought a canon G12 and started learning about photography. Soon I discovered that I needed "something more" to satisfy my growing expectations and ideas. But being on a tight budget I could only afford a second hand EOS 40D with a 50mm 1.8II (the lens was new of course). Yes it was a four year old camera, "only" 9 AF points, just 6.9 FPS, powered with a Digic III (I think), no video and no swivel screen. But 40D was the best I could do. I could have gone for EF-S 18-55 but I chose not to after reading about the image quality (in relative terms) vis-a-vis 50mm 1.8II. So I was happily snapping along and learning. Then a few months down the line I bought the EF 85mm 1.8. And now I had two, but both prime lenses. So I planned and started renting lenses from a local lens rental place. Coming to that later. Meanwhile, I went back home and met a friend of mine who had bought a EOS 50D with your exact lenses (18-55mm and 55-250mm). I was excited about EOS 50D and when I was buying my 40D I spent many hours drooling over 50D (microadjustment being one plus for it). I grabbed my friend's camera and started shooting photos. But I was not very happy with the images somehow. So I took out his 55-250mm lens and put it on my camera. I figured that I must not be able to handle his "better" camera because it was new to me. But when I snapped some more photos with his glasses on my camera (which I know how to handle) I was still not happy. Soon I understood it was not the camera but the lens (No disrespect to your or my friend's glasses). After being accustomed with my 50mm and 85mm I was, for something in the photos with those other lenses, not satisfied. Let's comeback to my lens rental story. Till now I have rented these lenses, EF-S 10-22mm, EF 100mm L2.8 macro, EF-S 17-55, EF 24-105. On my same 40D, I think (personal opinion) the EF 100mm L2.8 macro (used as a short/medium telephoto) gave me even sharper images than my EF 85mm. So what is the point of such a long story to reply to your question? My point I personally believe to make the investment in a camera body really worth it one needs to spend a lot on the glasses as well. Otherwise, as many have said, you can get better pictures with the same "mediocre" camera but with vastly superior lense. So my 2 cents will be with buying better glasses. At least if you have the opportunity, then rent out some very good glasses, mount them on you "old" camera and see if you see the difference or not. You can do the same thing with camera body as well, if you have that opportunity and can afford to spend that money for renting alone. See for yourself, but at least you will have your own judgement to back your decision. Last word, why buy 7D in 2012 if you want a "great" camera just for the sake of it? 7DII will probably come out soon. May be 70D. The body upgrade circle always goes on. Good and wonderful glasses not so much.
_______________________________________________________________
EOS 40D, EF 50mm 1.8II, EF 85mm 1.8, EF 22-55mm, some extension tubes

 

[pj1974]

I have the Canon 7D, upgrading from the Canon 350D (so yes, it was a huge upgrade). Image quality of the 7D is superior, but moreso the AF, handling, and advanced capability of the 7D were bigger improvements than 'raw' image quality. Having handled a number of xxD cameras, the 7D is definitely a step up from 60D. But obviously, the 60D is a step up again from the xxxxD / xxxD lines.

Buying good glass is, however, more important in most situations than newer / better bodies. After upgrading to the 7D I now have lenses that I'm very happy with (eg 15-85mm, 100mm macro, 70-300mm L and Sigma 10-20mm EX). In recent months I've sold the 28-135mm, 100-300mm, 50mm f1.8. (I still keep the 18-55mm kit lens, 'just in case' or for a lightweight walk around on my 350D, OR to possibly give away). The only lens I'm now looking for is a new / improved Canon 50mm f1.4 or f1.8 (which doesn't have to be an L... but I must be true USM for me)! 8)

So I agree with the advice you've received about getting a new lens first (eg the 15-85mm) and waiting till the 7DmkII or other new xxD (eg 70D) might come round, to make your decision. The 15-85mm IS USM is just SUCH a great, versatile, sharp lens - the USM and IS are fantastic too. So seeing what the next round of Canon 'mid range' cameras have to offer in terms of handling and AF is important, to ensure that you can have a suffiently powerful AF for 'basketball games' and 'group events' - as this very important in my opinion and experience.

All the best.

Paul

 

[!Xabbu]

Sorry for hijacking this post, but I'm facing a very similar decision. I currently own a Canon 450D and I really want to upgrade it. Mainly for two reasons - one being ergonomics and the other being the AF system. I think that I occasionally will take advantage of the faster FPS, but this will not be my main concern.

So, I'm split between 60D and 7D. I am aware that the 7D would fit all of my needs, but I wonder if the higher price point is really justified. I will not be shooting sports and just want a faster and more accurate AF (in other words, I don't need an almost pro grade AF).

On the lens side, I own the Tokina 11-16mm, the Tamron 17-50mm, Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 and Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L. I'm pretty happy with my lens setup and currently don't feel like I have to upgrade any of these lenses (I'm thinking about extending my setup).

So, is it really worth spending the extra money for the improved AF (and micro-adjustment) or would it make more sense to go with the 60D and wait for the 7D Mk II?

 

[Marsu42]

Sorry for hijacking this post, but I'm facing a very similar decision.

I like my 60d and it runs magic lantern in contrast to the 7d. But if you really have completed your ef-s lens collection I'd say get the 7d because of better af (the 60d's af is mainly for static scenes), afma (since you already have the lenses and cannot return them if focus issues arise) and better ergonomics that fit a larger hand. And the 7d's price has dropped a lot since its release. Getting a 60d now and waiting for the 7d replacement - if it ever arrives - doesn't make much sense to me, except if you're unhappy with the 18mp sensor and want to wait for an improved aps-c version.

 

[picturesbyme]

As many already said it:
#1. (Awesome) Lens
#2. (Good) Body
Sold my 5D2 and 7D and got a 60D plus L lenses. Never looked back. Of course - as a next step - I will get the 5D3 as soon as I can but the above combo gave me a lot of keepers. (Actually now that one can pick up a 5D2 in excellent cond. on ebay for 1500 or less, I might get one to hold me over until the 5D drops under 3K.)
Btw, I don't do sports but did a few portraits lately and many with the 60D you can see plenty here: http://atlanticpicture.com/f328067798

 

[smirkypants]

There is currently an awesome deal at Adorama on a 7D kit with a 24-105/f4 lens. The kit in the link is $2995 and includes lots of goodies including and extra battery and a battery grip.

Add the following coupon: S0401201 ... and save an additional $400.96. It's really an excellent price.

 

[Marsu42]

Sold my 5D2 and 7D and got a 60D plus L lenses. Never looked back.

Now that's very is interesting because most people do it the other way around and even I am thinking - driven by general aps-c FUD - about getting a 5d2 as a replacement or addition to my 60d. And people who got a 5d always say it's a smart move just like you always say it was a great holiday even if it was raining 24/7...

* Which L lenses do you use on the 60d? Did you have any issues due to the missing af micro adjustment?

* What things - if any - do you miss from the 5d2?

 

[Dylan777]

With your current lenses, both 7D & 60D will NOT do much improvement- in term of IQ.

In your case, I would go for better lenses now, and wait for newer crop bodies.

The lens I highly recommend is 17-55mm f2.8 IS. I rented it for the weekend and try out on my 60D, the IQ is AMAZING - razor sharp - great for indoor shooting, no flash of course.

If I didn't upgrade to 5D III, the 17-55 will be my #1 choice for cropped sensor. I will take this lens over 24-105L.

BOTTOM line is: Keep your current camera. Sell all your other lenses and use that money to buy 17-55mm f2.8 IS & 70-200mm II f2.8 IS in the future I use these two lenses very often on my 60D.

 

[cookie]

I have a 7d and would recommend it over the 60 for as mentioned better AF weather sealing programs.Be aware as mentioned better glass is required to get the most from it.I bought mine with the 15/85 lens while is good espealiy as wide angle I bit the bullet and now have a 70/200L 2 which really showed the limitations of the standard lens.Pro quality photos are now but click away??Also the 60 is often referred as a super rebel for reason.Final point,if you aspire to getting great photos and take the time to learn how go 7d

 

[BlueMixWhite]

Definitely 7D with 24-105mm to start with.


Blissful Wedding by adrlow, on Flickr

 

[UrbanImages]

Funny that you posted this as I just sold my 60D to buy a lightly used 7D. While much of the guts may be the same, the 7D is more solidly built camera and the AF blows away the 60D IMHO. I use L glass so the need for microadjustment was another factor as well as having a PC connector so I could hook up to my lighting systems. The 8 fps is going to come in handy with some of the work I have coming up. Keep in mind that this is my 2nd line camera behind a 5D II. I plan on buying a 5D III by the end of the year, so this is going to fill my needs better than the 60D. I am a firm believer that glass and creativity are more important than a body in many respects. It took me a while to sort through which glass works for me, but investing in quality lenses will be one of the smartest moves you can make. Just my 2 cents

 

[Marsu42]

With your current lenses, both 7D & 60D will NOT do much improvement- in term of IQ.

... but in cropping power which is useful for - well, cropping, macro, larger prints and modifying aspect ratio to square or 16:9.

I have a 7d and would recommend it over the 60 for as mentioned better AF weather sealing programs.[...] Also the 60 is often referred as a super rebel for reason.

Great, it's super rebel time again ... actually, the 7d is often called a "dressed up rebel" because it uses exactly the same sensor as the 550d and is near the price range of a full frame body. It's really the usual question "is af and afma worth it to you?".

Btw: Weather sealing requires a sealed *system* and not even all L lenses are sealed let alone ef-s ones, so the existing sealing of the 60d over the 600d should be on par with the ability of most lenses or flashes to withstand light rain - if you are set to take pictures in these conditions.

 

[dichiaras]

Get a 70D!
At least you won't be stuck with some 3 years old technology.

 

[Marsu42]

Get a 70D! At least you won't be stuck with some 3 years old technology.

But at the same time, Canon will make sure the 70d will have so many little annoyances that you will want to upgrade to the 5d3 or 80d - *then* you'll be able to take these real pro shots

 

[elflord]

Sold my 5D2 and 7D and got a 60D plus L lenses. Never looked back.

Now that's very is interesting because most people do it the other way around and even I am thinking - driven by general aps-c FUD - about getting a 5d2 as a replacement or addition to my 60d. And people who got a 5d always say it's a smart move just like you always say it was a great holiday even if it was raining 24/7...

* Which L lenses do you use on the 60d? Did you have any issues due to the missing af micro adjustment?

* What things - if any - do you miss from the 5d2?

FWIW, I used some fast glass on a Rebel XS -- the 50mm f/1.4 and the 35mm f/1.4. Didn't miss AFMA and I did shoot at f/1.4 with both lenses. With the 50, I took a lot of shots with ridiculously shallow dof (e.g. f/1.4 with subject within 1m).

I now have the 5DII.

The main thing I would miss if I used the crop is the focusing screen (I have the brighter EG-S screen for the 5D), better viewfinder and the thumb wheel on the back (but I think the 60D has this), and extra ISO reach. The full frame sensor does obviously allow for shallow dof, but one thing I find with some lenses is that I'm bumping up against the minimum focus distance of the lens -- to put it another way, APS-C will generally give me a shorter minimum focus distance for the same framing.

I find generally there's a tendency to overemphasise the importance of the body (versus the glass) in this forum. For a lot of the posts where people are contemplating upgrading bodies, I think the posters would be better off upgrading or acquiring more glass. I'd much rather shoot with fast glass on an APS-C body (especially a decent one like the 50D or the 7D) than a slow zoom on the 5D.

BTW, if you really want AFMA, I believe the 50D has it (?) that would make it a bargain alternative to the 7D.

 

[dichiaras]

But at the same time, Canon will make sure the 70d will have so many little annoyances that you will want to upgrade to the 5d3 or 80d - *then* you'll be able to take these real pro shots

Sure, it's a little silly to wait always for the next model, because that's going to be "the one" that will make you a great photographer. But in this case it's an upgrade only (probably) a few months away (not years), which should feature a new sensor (better IQ). Since the guy has already a T1i, there are no missed shots to worry about during the wait.