Canon Announces the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS USM
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I am really excited for this new 85mm to replace my 85mm 1.2 II and the price is very reasonable. But the sample images that I have seen so far discourages me a little bit, they kinda look dull to me. It kinda reminds me of the 35mm 2.0 IS, a great lens nonetheless but it misses a "pop" to it. I look forward to see more images and the performance at F1.4
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padam said:
I've considered that lens when I had a full frame camera, but got rid of the camera before getting the lens. I've only got crop sensors now and the 85 will give me a similar FOV as the 135 on a FF. I've been using the 85 1.8, but I'm hopeful to see if the 1.4 is sharper wide open. I'm confident that it will be.
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Some more samples here:
http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/info/ef85-f14-usm/impression.html
Not very big images but it looks promising. I had toyed with the idea of selling my 85L II over the last year and now I fear that ebay prices for it will probably fall - I had told myself that if Canon brought out a top flight 85 with IS it would be $2000, for this to come in at a reasonable price is a bit of a shock but a nice shock really. I can't see many people choosing the 1.2 version any more unless there are some pretty big discounts.
I will wait to see some head to head comparisons with the 85L II but the prospect of fast AF and 4 stop IS is alluring.
Looking at the samples my gut feeling is the bokeh is slightly more "busy" than the 1.2. But the in focus parts look like they have a wonderful clarity even if it's hard to tell for sure on such small images. It rather reminds me of the 35L II - again great clarity and sharpness but a slight sacrifice of bokeh. And perhaps of more relevance, it looks similar to the 85Art Sigma too I think.
Part of me thinks that bokeh is very important for a portrait so maybe that will push people to keep buying the 1.2. But then part of me thinks that at 85 and 1.4 most backgrounds will just be turned to mush anyway so people will go for it regardless of whether some 'purists' say the 1.2 is nicer.
http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/info/ef85-f14-usm/impression.html
Not very big images but it looks promising. I had toyed with the idea of selling my 85L II over the last year and now I fear that ebay prices for it will probably fall - I had told myself that if Canon brought out a top flight 85 with IS it would be $2000, for this to come in at a reasonable price is a bit of a shock but a nice shock really. I can't see many people choosing the 1.2 version any more unless there are some pretty big discounts.
I will wait to see some head to head comparisons with the 85L II but the prospect of fast AF and 4 stop IS is alluring.
Looking at the samples my gut feeling is the bokeh is slightly more "busy" than the 1.2. But the in focus parts look like they have a wonderful clarity even if it's hard to tell for sure on such small images. It rather reminds me of the 35L II - again great clarity and sharpness but a slight sacrifice of bokeh. And perhaps of more relevance, it looks similar to the 85Art Sigma too I think.
Part of me thinks that bokeh is very important for a portrait so maybe that will push people to keep buying the 1.2. But then part of me thinks that at 85 and 1.4 most backgrounds will just be turned to mush anyway so people will go for it regardless of whether some 'purists' say the 1.2 is nicer.
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Jopa said:
I think that too. But the main reason I want to replace it with is the AF speed and wide open sharpness. I use the 85mm at f2.0 during event work and the slow AF and super shallow dof at 1.2 is not really reliable, even on my 1dx II. But if the new 85mm matches the sharpness at 1.4 vs f2.0 on the v2 lens and far exceeds the AF speed I will gladly take it for that price.
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There's really no reason to believe the 1.4 will be sharper at 1.4 than the 1.8 is at 1.8. It should handle flaring better, which will improve contrast, and of course IS will get you sharper results than a lens that is shaking around, but in terms of ideal conditions—medium focus distance, no shake, no lights flaring directly into the lens—they should be about the same. The 85mm f/1.8 (and the 100mm f/2) are very unusual in that they are older, cheaper designs which are sharp enough and well-corrected enough that in most cases they are indistinguishable from 'L' versions. (Of course there are things like some Zeiss lenses which completely beat them, but at those prices they damn well should.) The 85mm f/1.8 vs the f/1.2L mkII, for instance, has far less problems with fringing and general aberration, less distortion and less vignetting, and has almost the same resolving power on a 35mm sensor body; on an APS-C body they actually match in resolving power. (Which is to say they're equally soft wide open and equally sharp from 2.8 onward; also note the older mkI f/1.2 actually resolved more detail and had better contrast, but slightly worse transmission and vignetting). In other words, that f/1.8 you have is already about as good at f/1.8 as either of the L lenses is, on your crop body at least. If you had a 35mm body there would be more of a difference but then you wouldn't be looking at 85mm lenses anyway.wsmith96 said:
If you want an upgrade to your 85mm f/1.8 and you're sure that's the focal length you want, go for the Sigma 85mm f/1.4. It is significantly sharper and better-corrected than any of the Canon lenses. Considering that it beats the Canon f/1.2 in every way and Canon are pitching their new 85 f/1.4 as being below the 1.2, it stands to reason the new Canon won't match the Sigma either. Or even better for your indoor sports, if you're definitely going to stick with crop sensors, would be the Sigma 50-100 f/1.8. On crop bodies it is equally as sharp as the prime, it's as well-corrected, the AF performs identically as well (which is also slightly better than your current Canon f/1.8) on any of the better-driven bodies (7D, 7D2, 80D), it's actually slightly cheaper, the actual light transmission is the same (t/1.9 and t/2; about 0.15 faster than your current lens; no, it's unlikely the new Canon will be any faster as the f/1.2 is only t/1.7, so the new 1.4 will probably be about t/1.9 itself) and of course you get a little more range; for a crop body shooter there is absolutely 0 downside. A 7D2 with the Sigma 50-100 is actually preferable for indoor sports (or any indoor event really) than a 5D3 with the 70-200 f/2.8, for instance; the 'full frame' options gives you about 40mm more on the longest end but the 7D2's focusing is that little bit better, the frame rate is of course better, and the Sigma on the crop sensor actually resolves more detail and has better contrast than the 70-200 on the 35mm sensor. (The 5D4 and 1DX sure are another step up again, but I am expecting the 7D3 will level that playing field next year, especially if it ditches the low pass filter like the Nikon D500 has.)
If you're certain you're sticking with crop sensors, there are crop-specific lenses being made now which totally beat 'full frame' lenses, when both are used on those crop bodies. If you think you might in the near future go back to a 35mm body then sure, definitely stick with buying 'FF' lenses, but if crop is the way you're going (smart for sport or any kind of action) then take a serious look at those crop-specific lenses. They're not a joke any more like they were 15 years ago.
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aceflibble said:
Your text almost made sense until this sentence. Then I stopped reading and just skimmed through the rest.
Have you actually tried an 85mm lens on a 35mm body?
It is my second most used combination after the 35. This combination of focal lengths is a true classic. It is so asked for that Fuji makes two odd focal length, large aperture primes 23/1.4 and 56/1.2. Yet no 33mm (true 50 equivalent), 89 (135) or 132 (200).
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If this lens optically does not match up to the new Sigma 85/1.4, I´d be most surprised. However, I doubt it will provide as beautiful portraits as the 85 1.2L II. Images are more than sharpness ... If I am wrong, I´ll be happy and send Canon some more money.Viggo said:
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I agree, less CA on new Canon - that is very solid expectation. AF must be fantastic, no doubt about it.
Viggo said:SecureGSM said:I would be most surprised if it doesbut what do I know. lets wait and see.
Eldar said:
I don't think it will be as sharp, but I do think it will have better bokeh and less CA. And I KNOW the AF will be fantastic.
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Too many are obsessed with sharpness as the dominant optical quality and too many are reading the likes of DxO as the final verdict on lens quality. It is not.SecureGSM said:I agree, less CA on new Canon - that is very solid expectation. AF must be fantastic, no doubt about it.
Viggo said:SecureGSM said:I would be most surprised if it does
Eldar said:
I don't think it will be as sharp, but I do think it will have better bokeh and less CA. And I KNOW the AF will be fantastic.
With all the new releases we have seen lately, sharpness is not the problem. I love sharpness, but to me, the optical qualities that separates the great from the good are more complex than that. Colour, contrast (high on in-focus and low on out of focus), bokeh, CA in a general sense and how it is controlled to provide the right rendering are more important differentiators today. Distortion, vignetting and flare are also important characteristics. In sum, these are the characteristics where the Zeiss Otus lenses and a lens like the Leica APO Summicron 50/2 shines and separates themselves from the rest.
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Very true, thank you for the explanation, Eldar.
Eldar said:Too many are obsessed with sharpness as the dominant optical quality and too many are reading the likes of DxO as the final verdict on lens quality. It is not.SecureGSM said:I agree, less CA on new Canon - that is very solid expectation. AF must be fantastic, no doubt about it.
Viggo said:SecureGSM said:I would be most surprised if it does
Eldar said:
I don't think it will be as sharp, but I do think it will have better bokeh and less CA. And I KNOW the AF will be fantastic.
With all the new releases we have seen lately, sharpness is not the problem. I love sharpness, but to me, the optical qualities that separates the great from the good are more complex than that. Colour, contrast (high on in-focus and low on out of focus), bokeh, CA in a general sense and how it is controlled to provide the right rendering are more important differentiators today. Distortion, vignetting and flare are also important characteristics. In sum, these are the characteristics where the Zeiss Otus lenses and a lens like the Leica APO Summicron 50/2 shines and separates themselves from the rest.
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aceflibble said:
I think we might be in danger of reading too much into Canon's claim that the new 85L doesn't replace the 1.2 version. It might just be the case that they are saying that while they run down stocks of the old lens. It would be fascinating to know if they are still making the 1.2 lens. Or maybe they learnt a lesson from abandoning the 50/1.0. Canon's executives must be aware that they sell for thousands on eBay. Starting up a new production line once it has been stopped is extremely expensive, maybe they will keep making the 1.2 version in small numbers for many years.
85mm is such a popular focal length, so important especially to wedding and portrait photographers that I have a very hard time seeing Canon release a new L lens at 85mm that doesn't at the least match Sigma's offering.
Of course there is more to a lens than sharpness.
The price being lower than many expected is a surprise. And it doesn't look to be quite as beastly as the Sigma. I don't think this will be the case that we saw at 35mm - where Sigma made a very good lens but Canon made a better one. I think the Sigma one at 85mm is spectacular, it's just that I think Canon's is likely to be either as spectacular or so close as to make no difference.
This will be a big, consistent seller for Canon over the next decade - I just can't see them not having given it their best shot.
Of course if next year we get an 85/1.2 III then everything I have said goes out the window!!
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... for those of us that doesn't even consider Sigma as any kind of option, and Canon knows this, it will be superb. I don't really like anything about the Art, except for the very low vignetting and extremely low distortion of the 50.
I'm confident that Canon will make a f1.2 III that will be the new benchmark, but the price will be crazy so they really need this middle option.
I mean, why on earth will they make a 85 f1.4 cheaper if it's going to sit on top?? People have no issues paying for the 1.2 with it's lacking abilities, so clearly they would pay even more if a new fantastic version would come along.
I'm confident that Canon will make a f1.2 III that will be the new benchmark, but the price will be crazy so they really need this middle option.
I mean, why on earth will they make a 85 f1.4 cheaper if it's going to sit on top?? People have no issues paying for the 1.2 with it's lacking abilities, so clearly they would pay even more if a new fantastic version would come along.
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I very much agree with Eldar when he is emphasizing other lens qualities than sharpness. Following DXO scores alone can be very misleading.
With regards to the new Canon 85L f1.4, I don't expect it to match the Sigma in terms of sharpness. It doesn't have much exotic glass elements in it, but most important, Canon isn't aggresssive in terms of the pricing. When they released the 35LII and 16-35LIII, Canon demanded a significant premium over Sigma and previous Canon lenses, but these releases were significantly better than the competition. The moderate pricing indicates thar Canon is aware that the new 85L 1.4 lags behind the Sigma in certain areas, most likely sharpness.
With regards to the new Canon 85L f1.4, I don't expect it to match the Sigma in terms of sharpness. It doesn't have much exotic glass elements in it, but most important, Canon isn't aggresssive in terms of the pricing. When they released the 35LII and 16-35LIII, Canon demanded a significant premium over Sigma and previous Canon lenses, but these releases were significantly better than the competition. The moderate pricing indicates thar Canon is aware that the new 85L 1.4 lags behind the Sigma in certain areas, most likely sharpness.
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Bryan has analyzed and compared MTF, and he seems to think the sharpness will match the Art.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-85mm-f-1.4L-IS-USM-Lens.aspx
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-85mm-f-1.4L-IS-USM-Lens.aspx
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