Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System

[Flake]

Having been looking at these cameras with a friend who bought a G12 there are a few pros & cons to them.

The biggest Pro to the evil system is the sensor size is APS-C (28.7 x 16mm) while the G12 sensor, although larger than other compacts is only 7.6 x 5.7mm This is the reason I am going to wait until Canon do manage to come up with a camera in this growing sector.

The G12 is without doubt a very good camera and even Iso 800 is useable and it's small enough and light enough to drop into a handbag, which is the problem with the Sony NEX system. The body is really nice thin & light, it's the lens which is the issue, totally out of proportion with the body and of a similar size to an EF-s type. It makes a distinct right angle shape which is difficult to carry except in a dedicated case when not in use.

Despite that I want a camera which is not going to be too far away from the 5D MkII currently the G12 sells for £360 The NEX 5 with 18 - 55mm for £480 I'm sure that if Canon can produce a similar product at that kind of price they will have a winner, and looking at the Sony sales I think that will be a matter of when not if.

 

[zalmagor]

It seems to me the question is a bit more complex than that.

Canon is constantly working on 7 DSLR lines (1D, 1Ds, 5D, 7D, xxD, xxxD, xxxxD), three lines of compacts, and three lines of lenses (EF, EF-S, and compact).

Question is whether Canon can start another line of bodies with it's own line of lenses (an adapter could be used to make EF lenses compliment this line, but Canon would have to make some new lenses), with money earned making more than the money lost in adjacent camera lines. Making EVIL cameras might make Canon stretch itself too thin.

Considering there are 7 announced lenses that haven't reached the market yet, and the recent events in Japan, I'd be surprised if Canon announced EVIL cameras in the near future.

 

[Admin US West]

Canon is definitely working on a compact camera, the recently filed patent for a lens adapter tells us that. It does not have a quick return mirror, which could mean pellix or mirrorless, but it is definitely a new camera and lens system.

From Patent

[0004]In response to the desire to decrease the size and weight of digital single reflex lens cameras, in recent years a new type of single lens reflex camera that differs from the conventional single lens reflex camera has been proposed. The new type of single lens reflex camera is not provided with a quick return mirror for guiding the imaging light flux to a viewfinder, and the flange back is shorter than that of a conventional camera. The new type of interchangeable lenses having a short flange back that is compatible with this new type of camera has been proposed. However, these new type of interchangeable lenses cannot easily handle a variety of photographic conditions because there are few models. Therefore, there are cases in which it is desirable to use in the new type of camera the conventional type of interchangeable lenses that have already been introduced to the market and for which there are ample models and quantities. Thus, a conversion adapter for connecting the conventional type of interchangeable lenses with the new type of camera body is necessary. The functions required of this conversion adapter generally include matching the differing mounting profiles of the lenses and the camera body, matching the differing flange backs of the lenses and the camera body, and not hindering the communication system between the lenses and the camera body.

 

[kawasakiguy37]

Id love to see a mirrorless canon FD mount system, adapter for new lenses.

 

[DuLt]

Canon is definitely working on a compact camera, the recently filed patent for a lens adapter tells us that. It does not have a quick return mirror, which could mean pellix or mirrorless, but it is definitely a new camera and lens system.

From Patent

[0004]In response to the desire to decrease the size and weight of digital single reflex lens cameras, in recent years a new type of single lens reflex camera that differs from the conventional single lens reflex camera has been proposed. The new type of single lens reflex camera is not provided with a quick return mirror for guiding the imaging light flux to a viewfinder, and the flange back is shorter than that of a conventional camera. The new type of interchangeable lenses having a short flange back that is compatible with this new type of camera has been proposed. However, these new type of interchangeable lenses cannot easily handle a variety of photographic conditions because there are few models. Therefore, there are cases in which it is desirable to use in the new type of camera the conventional type of interchangeable lenses that have already been introduced to the market and for which there are ample models and quantities. Thus, a conversion adapter for connecting the conventional type of interchangeable lenses with the new type of camera body is necessary. The functions required of this conversion adapter generally include matching the differing mounting profiles of the lenses and the camera body, matching the differing flange backs of the lenses and the camera body, and not hindering the communication system between the lenses and the camera body.

Is it possible to make a pellix mirror that "somehow" doesn't dim the viewfinder while framing?

 

[dougkerr]

Is it possible to make a pellix mirror that "somehow" doesn't dim the viewfinder while framing?

Pellix is the tradename of a Canon camera. It uses a fixed, semi-reflective pellicle mirror (a mirror whose substrate is a stretched thin film - the term itself does not imply anything else about the mirror) in a single-lens reflex configuration.

A single-lens reflex camera using a fixed semi-reflective mirror can have a mirror box that is a bit shorter than the mirror box for a moving mirror system.

A fixed semi-reflective mirror in a single-lens reflex camera (pellicle or otherwise) inevitably results in some light loss in both the taking and viewing paths.

What kind of arrangement do you have in mind?

Best regards,

Doug

 

[dougkerr]

Id love to see a mirrorless canon FD mount system, . . .

[/quote]
You mean no autofocus, mechanical aperture control?

. . . adapter for new lenses.

What kind of new lenses? They would have to have a back flange distance of at least 50mm or so (could not even be EF lenses).

Best regards,

Doug

 

[DuLt]

Is it possible to make a pellix mirror that "somehow" doesn't dim the viewfinder while framing?

Pellix is the tradename of a Canon camera. It uses a fixed, semi-reflective pellicle mirror (a mirror whose substrate is a stretched thin film - the term itself does not imply anything else about the mirror) in a single-lens reflex configuration.

A single-lens reflex camera using a fixed semi-reflective mirror can have a mirror box that is a bit shorter than the mirror box for a moving mirror system.

A fixed semi-reflective mirror in a single-lens reflex camera (pellicle or otherwise) inevitably results in some light loss in both the taking and viewing paths.

What kind of arrangement do you have in mind?

Best regards,

Doug

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.

 

[dougkerr]

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.

Oh, interesting thought.

Not invented by me, by the way - by a cousin, we assume.

Best regards,

Doug

 

[DuLt]

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.

Oh, interesting thought.

Not invented by me, by the way - by a cousin, we assume.

Best regards,

Doug

Off course, that's the basics of all troll physics.

 

[Jonathan]

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.

Oh, interesting thought.

Not invented by me, by the way - by a cousin, we assume.

Best regards,

Doug

I've seen on 43rumors, that Olympus is working on this kind of thing for a "pen pro".

 

[goodmane]

I am heavily invested in Canon. 5D, G9, 24-70L and several flashes.... very heavily I suppose you could say given its just a hobby.

I love the whole kit. But the G9 is crap (compared to a bigger sensor camera) for dynamic range outside - its like a webcam, keeps burning out faces etc , and I don't want to use my 5D outdoors much anymore. When my kid reaches 3 or 4 I will want to replace the G9 with something like a Fuijo X100 but with a few different lens options and that will work with a Canon flash (ideally).

If Canon are not ready - they have 2 years for my business to catch up- I'll have to go elsewhere; possibly for everything. I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[colin1984]

I´m also the opinion Canon doesn´t need a CCS, I´ve worked three years in an Electronic Market maybe you know MEDIA MARKT, and I think it was 12.2009 or a little later when Olympus comes with the first PEN, this Camera wasn´t a good Seller alltough Olympus made a lot of promotion if you remember then there was the second Edition and than ther was Sony and not any of these Cameras sells well, in our Region, the ccs´s were also called a dead article, In my carreer I´ve selled them twice once fully priced and once which was in clearence sell because it was too old,

So my opinion is that these CCS aren´t as good as dslr´s and the price for them is extremly high in compare with price/performance.

With friednly Regards

Colin

 

[wickidwombat]

within 2 years compact cameras will be dead as phone cameras are already heaping the burial dirt on them now

but a pro build mirror less high MP APS-H that has a crop mode to APS-C and increased FPS in that mode will be killer
Yeah i know i say it a lot but i can dream can't I?

 

[bycostello]

shame they are saying that... once you start with a different manufacturer they might lose the hole business... disappointed with the G1X, so slooow shutter lag.... looking like olympus for me..

 

[Bennymiata]

I agree with Colin.
Why would Canon go to all the trouble to make a new EVIL camera only for it to sit on the shelves like most of the other EVIL's out there, gathering dust?

Sure, when they were first introduced, they sold to the "Must have the newest thing" people, but that market has died down since people realised that an entry level DSLR is cheaper and far better.

The G1X is basically Canon's answer to EVILS, although the lens is fixed, it's zoom range covers about 90% of what most people would use anyway.
All they have to do now is to copy the Lumix focussing system and they would be home and hosed.

The sales of DSLR's are getting stronger every day, so if I was Canon, I'd be putting most of my resources into these.

 

[Neeneko]

within 2 years compact cameras will be dead as phone cameras are already heaping the burial dirt on them now

I doubt this. I think technical people tend to forget that while they and their friends all love the new high tech toys, much of the market does not really care for them. Not everyone is interested in getting fancy phones that do a dozen different things poorly, need to be replaced every 2-3 years, and rarely have any physical controls.

All we are seeing is an adjustment in the market as more options mean people who had compact cameras but are better served by smartphones migrate to those. After that segment has transitioned things will stabilize again.

 

[Musouka]

within 2 years compact cameras will be dead as phone cameras are already heaping the burial dirt on them now

I doubt this. I think technical people tend to forget that while they and their friends all love the new high tech toys, much of the market does not really care for them. Not everyone is interested in getting fancy phones that do a dozen different things poorly, need to be replaced every 2-3 years, and rarely have any physical controls.

All we are seeing is an adjustment in the market as more options mean people who had compact cameras but are better served by smartphones migrate to those. After that segment has transitioned things will stabilize again.

This is the sensor size of Nokia 808:

Source: DPreview

As you can see, it's bigger than most P&S cameras. Once similar technologies find their way into smartphones, why would most people bother buying P&S. They will be willing to pay slightly for the phone if it will save them some money compared to buying phone + P&S.

 

[colin1984]

within 2 years compact cameras will be dead as phone cameras are already heaping the burial dirt on them now

I doubt this. I think technical people tend to forget that while they and their friends all love the new high tech toys, much of the market does not really care for them. Not everyone is interested in getting fancy phones that do a dozen different things poorly, need to be replaced every 2-3 years, and rarely have any physical controls.

All we are seeing is an adjustment in the market as more options mean people who had compact cameras but are better served by smartphones migrate to those. After that segment has transitioned things will stabilize again.

This is the sensor size of Nokia 808:

Source: DPreview

As you can see, it's bigger than most P&S cameras. Once similar technologies find their way into smartphones, why would most people bother buying P&S. They will be willing to pay slightly for the phone if it will save them some money compared to buying phone + P&S.

I agree with that, but at the moment smartphones are only equal in high light, try to shoot in low light, than you´ll see that p&s cameras are still over the top compared with smartphones, and in my opinion this will last for a long time they can´t build so small and good lenses, alltouhg the p&s aren´t good lenses at all, but try to match a smartphone with the complete technic from a p&s camera with 3-5x zoom, and than you got a smartphone thick like a ham and chees Toast.

Hope you all know what I mean.

 

[tntwit]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/02/15/Cipa_publishes_mirrorless_sales_and_shipments

Not sure why everyone seems to think mirrorless camera sales are stagnant. This article seems to say otherwise, and I have seen other articles with a similar message.