Canon DSLR Announcement in March? [CR1]

[wsmith96]

The replacement to the EOS 7D Mark II and a third camera that is currently unknown.

I'm happy to see that they'll be replacing the non-existent 7D Mark II

Darn! I waited 4 years for the camera, and then one morning it came and went and I missed it! Darn!

something about oil or grease on the sensor/mirror... they pulled it from the shelves

 

[scyrene]

Yes, it's likely that the next camera is launched T6i. I just hope it has the same sensor 70D.

Canon is shrewd when it comes to milking profits from sensors. Consider that the T5i/700D did not get the latest version of the 18 MP APS-C sensor. The T5i's sensor has Hybrid CMOS AF (same sensor as the T4i and the EOS M), whereas the sensor used in the SL1/100D and the EOS M2 has Hybrid CMOS II AF (where the phase AF area covers 80% of the frame vs. just the central portion). That allows Canon to release another T#i-series body with a 'new' (to the line) sensor (but not the 70D's sensor). Put Digic 6 in there, and they're good to go with the T6i/750D.

I was being factious because of my frustration with Canon. In truth I think 2014 will be a good year for new hardware. I know that Canon has cited the 5DIII as one of their current success stories so I don't expect much there. This might be the 1DX going to 24MP or it might finally be the first of the new sensors.
I'm probably wrong but I think that the Nikon 800e caught Canon flat footed. Their sensors ruled the roost for a long time and the 800 was the point where they knew their current sensors could not continue to compete with the Sony's. Perhaps they were working a new line for a while but the Nikon's with Sony sensors really got their attention. I'm sure that it takes years and years before a sensor goes from design to profitable production. Hopefully, Canon is near then end of that cycle and we will see some significant new sensor technology. Canon has made real improvements everywhere but in sensors. Fortunately, they have held their market share but that can't last forever. Sony probably has another generation in the pipeline already.

Here we go again...

I own a 5DIII and love it but I shot with a Sony 7R this weekend and the images were just better. Sharper by a wide margin. I make big prints and it really shows there. Maybe I just had a good day and the camera had nothing to do with it?

Oh I don't dispute it. But yet another thread has turned into people 'worrying' that Canon is facing ruin because their sensors aren't as good as Sony's. Now, the real world scenarios where the difference would be worth buying a new body (for those of us with a fairly recent Canon body) will be a subset of all situations - maybe (probably) a minority for most. And the autofocus speed, and native lens range (let's not get into using adaptors) and form factor of the body... those are important too - more important for some (maybe many?) users.

My point is, Canon is doing okay. Some other companies are doing better in *some areas*. Good for them. Competition is good. If you like the A7(r), good - get one. Use it, enjoy it. But try not to get caught up in the 'newer sensors are EVERYTHING' bandwagon that I've only seen here and in dpreview comments. I've no doubt something new will come along. Be patient.

(And I'm sure Neuro can tell you the relative sales of D800(E) bodies versus the Canon equivalents).

 

[preppyak]

Where are the lenses in a so-called Year of the Lens for Canon? Sigh

Yeah, its gonna into March of "the year of the lens" before we even have a shot at a new lens. Which probably means no possible availability until April or May.

Is Canon really going to go a year and a half between announcing lenses (200-400 not withstanding)?

 

[Richard8971]

I can understand Canon "reusing" the 18mp sensor over and over again as Nikon has done the same with their 16mp sensor and now new 24mp sensor. It makes good marketing sense, in a way. I just think that it has been more noticeable with Canon as the last 5 years and 9 camera bodies have been 18mp even though there have been some small changes between certain sensor designs. Noise levels have not gotten noticeably better either, so naturally, people have become frustrated.

The 7D is 5 years old and I still think it is one hell of a camera body that is very capable. All crop sensors have noise so if your job demands noise free images, you are not looking at crop bodies anyway, you are shooting full frame.

I think the last couple great cameras from Canon were the 5D3 and 1DX and other than that nothing has been released (in MO) from Canon that is ground-breaking or anything that would make me want to give up my 7D and 40D backup. I still use my 40D and the images are stellar, I will never give up my 40D!

Hopefully, IF Canon makes a 7D replacement, it will show the "world" what a great crop body can do!

D

 

[mkabi]

Hopefully, IF Canon makes a 7D replacement, it will show the "world" what a great crop body can do!

D

Yeah, I don't think they are going to release a 7D replacement...
Canon Photographers are in for a dissappointing year, Cinematographers on the other hand....

Okay, look at the rumors...
3 DSLRs for 2014:
-One down, introduced as the T5.
-We all know the T6i is going to be next, a rebel is released every year.
-Last one will be a cinema DSLR, a DSLR is a DSLR whether its under a Cinema EOS category or not. But no worries, its going to have the same sensor as the 70D (thats my prediction).

EDITTED TO ADD: If this rumor:
http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/01/canon-to-offer-global-shutter-for-2-5k-video-on-an-upcoming-dslr-cr1/
has any merit, I expect it to be in the next Cinema EOS DSLR. In which case it is a 7D replacement, because if you follow the developments by Magic Lantern, they already have enabled the current 7D to do 2.5K:
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=ctrl&ei=Wk0FU_m0AoKN8QeFvYH4Cg&gws_rd=cr#q=2.5K+by+7D
Its only natural to add it in the next iteration without the help of Magic Lantern

 

[Richard8971]

Yeah, I don't think they are going to release a 7D replacement...

I think it's very possible you are right, for 2 more reasons in addition to the ones you already mentioned,

1) The 2.0 firmware update unlocked some very cool features to an already great camera giving it more "life" and,

2) The Nikon "king-of-the-crop-sensor" body is the D7100. My wife shoots with one and the images are fantastic. Nikon really doesn't have a 7D equivalent and the 70D is lined up to compete with the D7100. I still think the 7D is the better choice (for a couple of reasons) but the 70D and D7100 are very, very nice cameras. I don't shoot video so I can't base my choices on anything other than still shooting and as such I could care less what video features any of these cameras have, but many people do care about video features.

I see tons of 7D's when I go shooting, however I am seeing more Nikon D7000's and D7100's out there. Nikon has a real winner with these two cameras and I think Canon might have realized that they don't need a high performance crop body other than the 70D.

Canon may feel that keeping the 7D around for a couple of more years will keep the budget minded sports and wildlife photographiers happy and the 70D will make the rest happy. I really won't believe anything regarding a 7D2 until I actually can buy one for myself.

Fortunately for me, the 7D suits my shooting needs and I really don't feel the need to upgrade unless the FF bug finally hits me and I buy a 5D3.

D

 

[Zv]

I can understand Canon "reusing" the 18mp sensor over and over again as Nikon has done the same with their 16mp sensor and now new 24mp sensor. It makes good marketing sense, in a way. I just think that it has been more noticeable with Canon as the last 5 years and 9 camera bodies have been 18mp even though there have been some small changes between certain sensor designs. Noise levels have not gotten noticeably better either, so naturally, people have become frustrated.

The 7D is 5 years old and I still think it is one hell of a camera body that is very capable. All crop sensors have noise so if your job demands noise free images, you are not looking at crop bodies anyway, you are shooting full frame.

I think the last couple great cameras from Canon were the 5D3 and 1DX and other than that nothing has been released (in MO) from Canon that is ground-breaking or anything that would make me want to give up my 7D and 40D backup. I still use my 40D and the images are stellar, I will never give up my 40D!

Hopefully, IF Canon makes a 7D replacement, it will show the "world" what a great crop body can do!

D

I agree the 7D is still a great camera, capable of taking amazing pictures in good light. It suffers a bit in low light though. I think a 7D replacement isn't out of the question but I am starting to doubt if it will be this year.

If Canon put in a completely new sensor, dual Digic 5, with DPAF, perhaps wifi and and touchscreen plus a higher burst rate and 4K video a lot of folk will be happy. Even without the 4K video (which I think is a stretch) this would be a great camera. Improvements to ISO noise are prob not going to be groundbreaking but hopefully better than what it is now.

Also, I think the 6D should be in the category of something great released recently. For the price you are getting superb IQ and features. It pretty much brought FF to the masses. Before that the only cheap options were the dated 5D cameras. For the same price as the 5D2 used you get a similar spec'd camera but more modern and with insane high ISO usability. Four years ago that was unheard of at that price point.

 

[Tugela]

Yes, it's likely that the next camera is launched T6i. I just hope it has the same sensor 70D.

Canon is shrewd when it comes to milking profits from sensors. Consider that the T5i/700D did not get the latest version of the 18 MP APS-C sensor. The T5i's sensor has Hybrid CMOS AF (same sensor as the T4i and the EOS M), whereas the sensor used in the SL1/100D and the EOS M2 has Hybrid CMOS II AF (where the phase AF area covers 80% of the frame vs. just the central portion). That allows Canon to release another T#i-series body with a 'new' (to the line) sensor (but not the 70D's sensor). Put Digic 6 in there, and they're good to go with the T6i/750D.

I doubt it. A 70D body already costs barely more than the current rebel when it is released. What is more likely to happen is that the rebel line will not be updated and the 70D will take that place in the lineup, since it is about the same price point. The top end APS-C will be taken by the new 7D2 (or whatever they call it), and will probably have advanced video features that would allow it to compete in the same space as the GH4. The last of the three speculated DSLRs would then be a full frame camera, replacing either the 6D or 5D3 (probably they would do the 6D first). Full frame cameras have not been updated for some time and are due, if they are to remain competitive.

Canon is in the business of making money, they need their revenue stream flowing and the way to do that is to convince people that it is time to update their bodies. An iterative update will not cut it in that regard, so we can expect something substantial in higher end cameras. Since they have already said that they are going to be focussing on video, what will probably happen are a set of new cameras will incremental upgrades in still capabilities and large upgrades in video capabilities. That is where the growth potential is, and (unless they are stupid) they will capitalize on the current interest in 4K and high quality output to drive that process. While the average Joe might not care about 4K and video quality, the target group that buys their high end cameras most certainly is.

So, at the low end the new Rebel T5 will provide good quality stills for the average Joe (who doesn't care that much about video quality). The 70D will fill the spot in the lineup previously occupied by the Rebel Txi series, with a price drop of 200-300 dollars to get it in the sweet spot. The high end of the consumer market will be targeted by the 7D2 which will have excellent APS-C stills capability and high quality camcorder like capabilities for 1080p video. The prosumer market will be targeted by something like a 6D2/5D4 which will provide excellent full frame stills and high quality 4K capabilities (similar to the GH4). That way they could revamp the entire line and provide something for each of the four main market segments to drive growth.

At the professional level they introduce the new cinema EOS models to address the dedicated film makers. There will be a high end model (8-10K range) for the real professionals, and a lower end model (3-4K range) for the wannabe amateurs.

In addition, in the camcorder segment there will be new 4K camcorders, a semi professional model similar to the HA 20/25 and a consumer model similar to the Vixia HFG30. One or two professional big bucks camcorders will be introduced to address that market segment as well.

If they do this over the course of the next 9-12 months they will revamp pretty much every market segment and keep them competitive, particularly with respect to the changes that video is currently undergoing.

That is my prediction of what will happen.

 

[Zv]

Yes, it's likely that the next camera is launched T6i. I just hope it has the same sensor 70D.

Canon is shrewd when it comes to milking profits from sensors. Consider that the T5i/700D did not get the latest version of the 18 MP APS-C sensor. The T5i's sensor has Hybrid CMOS AF (same sensor as the T4i and the EOS M), whereas the sensor used in the SL1/100D and the EOS M2 has Hybrid CMOS II AF (where the phase AF area covers 80% of the frame vs. just the central portion). That allows Canon to release another T#i-series body with a 'new' (to the line) sensor (but not the 70D's sensor). Put Digic 6 in there, and they're good to go with the T6i/750D.

I doubt it. A 70D body already costs barely more than the current rebel when it is released. What is more likely to happen is that the rebel line will not be updated and the 70D will take that place in the lineup, since it is about the same price point. The top end APS-C will be taken by the new 7D2 (or whatever they call it), and will probably have advanced video features that would allow it to compete in the same space as the GH4. The last of the three speculated DSLRs would then be a full frame camera, replacing either the 6D or 5D3 (probably they would do the 6D first). Full frame cameras have not been updated for some time and are due, if they are to remain competitive.

Canon is in the business of making money, they need their revenue stream flowing and the way to do that is to convince people that it is time to update their bodies. An iterative update will not cut it in that regard, so we can expect something substantial in higher end cameras. Since they have already said that they are going to be focussing on video, what will probably happen are a set of new cameras will incremental upgrades in still capabilities and large upgrades in video capabilities. That is where the growth potential is, and (unless they are stupid) they will capitalize on the current interest in 4K and high quality output to drive that process. While the average Joe might not care about 4K and video quality, the target group that buys their high end cameras most certainly is.

So, at the low end the new Rebel T5 will provide good quality stills for the average Joe (who doesn't care that much about video quality). The 70D will fill the spot in the lineup previously occupied by the Rebel Txi series, with a price drop of 200-300 dollars to get it in the sweet spot. The high end of the consumer market will be targeted by the 7D2 which will have excellent APS-C stills capability and high quality camcorder like capabilities for 1080p video. The prosumer market will be targeted by something like a 6D2/5D4 which will provide excellent full frame stills and high quality 4K capabilities (similar to the GH4). That way they could revamp the entire line and provide something for each of the four main market segments to drive growth.

At the professional level they introduce the new cinema EOS models to address the dedicated film makers. There will be a high end model (8-10K range) for the real professionals, and a lower end model (3-4K range) for the wannabe amateurs.

In addition, in the camcorder segment there will be new 4K camcorders, a semi professional model similar to the HA 20/25 and a consumer model similar to the Vixia HFG30. One or two professional big bucks camcorders will be introduced to address that market segment as well.

If they do this over the course of the next 9-12 months they will revamp pretty much every market segment and keep them competitive, particularly with respect to the changes that video is currently undergoing.

That is my prediction of what will happen.

Where does the SL1 fit into this model?

I don't know about you but the 70D is way more expensive than any rebel I've ever seen, even when newly released, where I live. Also they are targeted at two different types of photographers. I think the rebel / txi line will continue on. It's a big seller for Canon. It's very much their bread and butter camera. The T5 is aimed at the budget conscious and IMO doesn't replace a rebel. It's a great camera though for the price. The SL1 fills the handbag and compact travel needs. Neither of those are a good replacement for a solid, full functional mid sized DSLR for the beginner looking to get into photography. The 70D probably seems too advanced to some of those types of people. That would be a tough choice - a very low budget DSLR, or a $1000 semi pro model. As a newbie or casual shooter I'd want something in between.

The rebel has always been that perfect balance of awesome features and performance at a reasonable price level. I doubt Canon would disturb that strategy.

 

[Tugela]

Where I live a 70D body costs about $1250. On initial release a Rebel Txi usually costs around $1100 with its crappy kit lens (they cost a lot less at the moment, but that is because the T5i is relatively old now). If what you say is correct, and they released a T6i with marginal improvements over the T5i, then it is going to have a tough time competing with the 70D. Who in their right mind would buy a T6i when for a little bit more they could get a much better camera in the 70D? I think one of the problems with Canon's DSLR lineup is that they have too many models on the market. It is not really economical to support future development of all of them.

It is much simpler for Canon to reduce the price of the 70D one or two hundred dollars than it is to start producing a new camera.

 

[Floder3]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D Mark III is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D Mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share. Suppose Canon make now an "5D Mark IV" much better than the Mark III. It could steal sales from more expensive 1DX. In addition, Canon 1DX sells more of Nikon D4. Because of that Nikon did an update with D4S to stay competitive.

 

[tron]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D mark iii is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share.

The D800E is not an upgrade of D800. It is a D800 without the AA filter. Everything else about them is the same.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D mark iii is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share.

The D800E is not an upgrade of D800. It is a D800 without the AA filter. Everything else about them is the same.

I did not say it D800E would be an update of D800, since they were launched at the same time. However, I imagine there will be only one version of the hypothetical D900, possibly without AA filter.

 

[tron]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D mark iii is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share.

The D800E is not an upgrade of D800. It is a D800 without the AA filter. Everything else about them is the same.

I did not say it D800E would be an update of D800, since they were launched at the same time. However, I imagine there will be only one version of the hypothetical D900, possibly without AA filter.

Your words: "Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?"

 

[quiquae]

Where I live a 70D body costs about $1250. On initial release a Rebel Txi usually costs around $1100 with its crappy kit lens (they cost a lot less at the moment, but that is because the T5i is relatively old now).

Maybe Canon does things differently in some regions, but where I live (Japan) T5i's "crappy kit lenses" are exactly the same as the ones that come with the 70D: 18-55mm STM and 55-250 STM, neither of which are crappy at all.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D mark iii is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share.

The D800E is not an upgrade of D800. It is a D800 without the AA filter. Everything else about them is the same.

I did not say it D800E would be an update of D800, since they were launched at the same time. However, I imagine there will be only one version of the hypothetical D900, possibly without AA filter.

Your words: "Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?"

Dear friend Tron. Just a misunderstanding. You responded by making a quote from my message, and referred to a statement from the new member of CR "Floder3" which seemed to affirm D800E would be an upgrade. I re-read, and understand that you fixed an incorrect idea of ​​"Floder3". All cleared up now.

 

[tron]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D mark iii is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share.

The D800E is not an upgrade of D800. It is a D800 without the AA filter. Everything else about them is the same.

I did not say it D800E would be an update of D800, since they were launched at the same time. However, I imagine there will be only one version of the hypothetical D900, possibly without AA filter.

Your words: "Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?"

Dear friend Tron. Just a misunderstanding. You responded by making a quote from my message, and referred to a statement from the new member of CR "Floder3" which seemed to affirm D800E would be an upgrade. I re-read, and understand that you fixed an incorrect idea of ​​"Floder3". All cleared up now.

Very true! I should have made bold the part of the text I was referring to. Sorry for that!

 

[Floder3]

Well i think i´m not in the topic as you guys. So here is my question:
Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?

Currently 5D mark iii is the camera best selling in its category. This does not encourage Canon to launch a replacement this year. Maybe appear one "5D mark IV" seen in 2015. On the other hand, Nikon D800 is not a great sales success, much less D800E. This forces Nikon update their models as quickly as possible, to avoid losing market share.

The D800E is not an upgrade of D800. It is a D800 without the AA filter. Everything else about them is the same.

I did not say it D800E would be an update of D800, since they were launched at the same time. However, I imagine there will be only one version of the hypothetical D900, possibly without AA filter.

Your words: "Why shouldn´t there be an 5D update like the 800 to 800e?"

Dear friend Tron. Just a misunderstanding. You responded by making a quote from my message, and referred to a statement from the new member of CR "Floder3" which seemed to affirm D800E would be an upgrade. I re-read, and understand that you fixed an incorrect idea of ​​"Floder3". All cleared up now.

Very true! I should have made bold the part of the text I was referring to. Sorry for that!

Thanks for the quick response
Now there is nothing in my way to buy the 5d3...
And sorry for my incorrect assumption, as i said i´m not in this topic as you

 

[Zv]

Where I live a 70D body costs about $1250. On initial release a Rebel Txi usually costs around $1100 with its crappy kit lens (they cost a lot less at the moment, but that is because the T5i is relatively old now). If what you say is correct, and they released a T6i with marginal improvements over the T5i, then it is going to have a tough time competing with the 70D. Who in their right mind would buy a T6i when for a little bit more they could get a much better camera in the 70D? I think one of the problems with Canon's DSLR lineup is that they have too many models on the market. It is not really economical to support future development of all of them.

It is much simpler for Canon to reduce the price of the 70D one or two hundred dollars than it is to start producing a new camera.

So what you're saying is Canon should cut the price of the 70D by about $200 or more and not release a new T6i?

Great. Now they're selling the 70D close to break even thus losing profit and to top it off they have no income at all from what used to be a best seller.

Development costs for their rebel line are quite low. You said yourself "... with marginal improvements". How much development do you think is going on in these rebels?! The developing has already been done. The cameras use tech filtered down from the older high end models. A little spit and polish, add a few new creative filters and increase the model number accordingly and voila! A T6i is born! Sit back and enjoy as profits go up!

People will buy it simply because it's newer. Others will wait until the price drops. Either way it will sell.