Canon EOS-1D X Mark II To Be 22mp [CR3]

[-pekr-]

Not going to be the same sensor. The 1DX2 will have the much more costly and sophisticated DPAF variety at 22-24MP. The 5D4 will have a 24-28MP sensor I don't suspect will be DPAF. Both however will likely enjoy the new on-chip Column Parallel ADC process.

If Canon continues with the DPAF technology, no chance 5D4 is going to miss it imo. Other than that - if not swivel LCD, I hope they introduce a touchscreen though. Came in quite handy with our 70D, more than I initially thought. Also the wi-fi sucks the battery quite fast, there is a place for an optimisation ...

 

[PureClassA]

I'm not convinved Canon would create a 22MP DPAF sensor for the 1DX2 and another 24-28MP DPAF sensor for the 5D4. I think what is more likely is IF Canon goes split 5 body (a 5D4 and a 5DC for cinema as has been previously rumored) that the 5DC will see something akin to a 20MP (or less) DPAF sensor like a FF flavor of the 7D2, which would be more appropriate for a 4K cinema body.

Not going to be the same sensor. The 1DX2 will have the much more costly and sophisticated DPAF variety at 22-24MP. The 5D4 will have a 24-28MP sensor I don't suspect will be DPAF. Both however will likely enjoy the new on-chip Column Parallel ADC process.

If Canon continues with the DPAF technology, no chance 5D4 is going to miss it imo. Other than that - if not swivel LCD, I hope they introduce a touchscreen though. Came in quite handy with our 70D, more than I initially thought. Also the wi-fi sucks the battery quite fast, there is a place for an optimisation ...

 

[rfdesigner]

Not going to be the same sensor. The 1DX2 will have the much more costly and sophisticated DPAF variety at 22-24MP. The 5D4 will have a 24-28MP sensor I don't suspect will be DPAF. Both however will likely enjoy the new on-chip Column Parallel ADC process.

If they do go down this path (akin to the sCMOS ANDOR/Hamamatsu sensors) then we're in for a treat.

The sCMOS sensors do 5.5MPIX raw images at 100frames/second and achieve sub 1e readout noise, all at the same time, because the bandwidth of each readout amplifier and ADC is very low so total noise seen by each one is that much less (total noise is proportional to bandwidth)

This would be more than one whole EV improvement in sensitivity, and it should sort out the DR issue too whilst also supporting 4k.

If they've also gone back illuminated, then that could be another half a stop, maybe a touch more.

I wonder if it's too much to concider 2 stops total improvement in real world sensitivity?

 

[unfocused]

Regarding the 5D IV, I'd be perfectly happy with the same 22 MP sensor as the 1Dx (who in their right mind wouldn't be?) But, I suspect for product differentiation purposes, it will be slightly denser, but I hope not over 24-26 MP.

It would really make more sense for Canon to switch the sensor relationship between the 6D and 5D, putting a 28 MP sensor in the 6D and holding the 5D to 24. The 6D is really better suited for a higher megapixel sensor and the 5D for higher ISO performance. (The 6D is well suited for nature and landscape, while the 5D is more likely to be used for event, wedding and action).

I do wonder how Canon and Nikon can continue to differentiate between their flagship DSLR and their next-in-line body. It seems like the differences are getting less and less and consumers are demanding more and more from each new iteration.

 

[PureClassA]

If the 1DX2 really appears at 22MP, then 24MP makes sense for the 5D4, non DPAF. Since Canon has established the 6 series as the "entry level" I would highly doubt a leap over the 5 series in pixel count. Staying 20-22 would be just perfect but throw in the 5D3 AF system (or a slightly watered down version) since the 5D4 will clearly have a new system.

Don't forget the rumor that with the 5D4 comes a revised 5DS for obvious reasons (production costs). I think if people want higher resolution than 24-26MP, the logical step is to 50. Not 28. Seems like that would be crowding the field too much.

Regarding the 5D IV, I'd be perfectly happy with the same 22 MP sensor as the 1Dx (who in their right mind wouldn't be?) But, I suspect for product differentiation purposes, it will be slightly denser, but I hope not over 24-26 MP.

It would really make more sense for Canon to switch the sensor relationship between the 6D and 5D, putting a 28 MP sensor in the 6D and holding the 5D to 24. The 6D is really better suited for a higher megapixel sensor and the 5D for higher ISO performance. (The 6D is well suited for nature and landscape, while the 5D is more likely to be used for event, wedding and action).

I do wonder how Canon and Nikon can continue to differentiate between their flagship DSLR and their next-in-line body. It seems like the differences are getting less and less and consumers are demanding more and more from each new iteration.

 

[Loswr]

I feel that 24MP should be the low mark on high end cameras today. The highres digital media warants that me thinks... OTOH, you can only get that that's on the market and there are other cams avaible, if you don't need 16fps.

Damn - you really should have told Nikon that before they went and announced the 20 MP D5. :

 

[Gregg]

All I ever wish for is a high mega pixel sensor with a wide dynamic range in a Pro 1DX body.

 

[PureClassA]

1D body with wide DR = Yes, 1DX2. 1D body with high MP count = No. Gotta get the 5DS for that. I don't see Canon diving into a 1DS4.

All I ever wish for is a high mega pixel sensor with a wide dynamic range in a Pro 1DX body.

 

[gsealy]

1D body with wide DR = Yes, 1DX2. 1D body with high MP count = No. Gotta get the 5DS for that. I don't see Canon diving into a 1DS4.

All I ever wish for is a high mega pixel sensor with a wide dynamic range in a Pro 1DX body.

But that is where the 'rub' is because there is a group of photographers that want more and more FPS. Those guys are out in the field taking thousands of action photos on an assignment and beating the heck out of the 1D. More pixels means more data, which takes more time to write to the card. Anyway, I am thinking that Canon is probably trying to optimize the camera against all these parameters.

 

[Ozarker]

That sounds fine to me. There are lots of photographers hoping for the sensor to be in the 22-24 Mp range. Not only is this in alignment with high performance expectations, but also high iso expectations. This is shaping up as a year of great releases.

+1

Now I hope that Canon is staying in similar region a with the 5D4 sensor.

and why not provide the same sensor in the 5D4? is it so undoable? ...

pedro, I am 100% with you.
I am the first one - and I also stated that already in this forum - that would really welcome the same sensor in 1DX2, 5D4 and 6D2. For the IQ, for the price, for much more reasons. I'm fine with 22 MP and I don't need that MP race anymore. Others need/want more, and they can get it with other bodies.

Problem is:
Canon didn't use the same sensor in two current FF models at the same time lately (except 5D2 and 1Ds3, if you want to call that lately). So I expect - but don't want - the 5D4 to get a different FF sensor.

I'm thinking it has to do with creating multiple strong revenue streams. With printers, the money (profit) is mostly in the inks and papers.

My guess on DSLRs is that splitting the technological advances allows Canon and others to create extra revenue streams that would not exist (or couldn't survive) if the DSLRs were too similar. It may also allow the companies to run new technologies along different product lines to test how they are received without possibly damaging one product line or another.

That is my speculation. It carries no weight. Someone will come along speaking in an authoritative tone that doesn't know anything either. ;D

 

[Ozarker]

I am thinking of possibly trading in my 1DX for the II. Is the increase of 4MP along with ISO warrant a possible trade?

Yes, but only if you send me your used 1Dx. ;D

 

[Ozarker]

Not going to be the same sensor. The 1DX2 will have the much more costly and sophisticated DPAF variety at 22-24MP. The 5D4 will have a 24-28MP sensor I don't suspect will be DPAF. Both however will likely enjoy the new on-chip Column Parallel ADC process.

That sounds fine to me. There are lots of photographers hoping for the sensor to be in the 22-24 Mp range. Not only is this in alignment with high performance expectations, but also high iso expectations. This is shaping up as a year of great releases.

+1

Now I hope that Canon is staying in similar region a with the 5D4 sensor.

and why not provide the same sensor in the 5D4? is it so undoable? ...

pedro, I am 100% with you.
I am the first one - and I also stated that already in this forum - that would really welcome the same sensor in 1DX2, 5D4 and 6D2. For the IQ, for the price, for much more reasons. I'm fine with 22 MP and I don't need that MP race anymore. Others need/want more, and they can get it with other bodies.

Problem is:
Canon didn't use the same sensor in two current FF models at the same time lately (except 5D2 and 1Ds3, if you want to call that lately). So I expect - but don't want - the 5D4 to get a different FF sensor.

I really wish you'd all remember... it won't be a 5DIV. It will be a 5DX.

 

[Maximilian]

...
I really wish you'd all remember... it won't be a 5DIV. It will be a 5DX.

Name it whatever you like if the specs and performance are right

 

[Ozarker]

I feel that 24MP should be the low mark on high end cameras today. The highres digital media warants that me thinks... OTOH, you can only get that that's on the market and there are other cams avaible, if you don't need 16fps.

Damn - you really should have told Nikon that before they went and announced the 20 MP D5. :

But Neuro, he used the old English misspelling of "methinks". That makes it all okay and true.

 

[Ozarker]

...
I really wish you'd all remember... it won't be a 5DIV. It will be a 5DX.

Name it whatever you like if the specs and performance are right

;D

 

[ahsanford]

Honestly, with a 6D2, I think a LOT of folks would be very happy if they just KEEP the same sensor and significantly upgrade the AF capability to what the 5D3 is now. I think the 6D sensor currently is a real gem for an "entry level" FF DSLR. Get 1-2 more FPS out of it. Basically, make it what a 5D3 is now (minus the bigger, tougher body) but with the 6D sensor and bingo. They will have a real winner there for $1499.

Yes, folks would be very happy with it, but Canon's going to put the best-in-class 1DX AF system on every sports sideline into the stripped-down entry-level FF model? I honestly can't see that happening.

The AF system -- alongside video features, MP count, build toughness and burst rate -- are the simple categories that Canon will deliberately hold back performance/functionality in order to entice you to walk up the ladder to a pricier rig.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

1D body with wide DR = Yes, 1DX2. 1D body with high MP count = No. Gotta get the 5DS for that. I don't see Canon diving into a 1DS4.

All I ever wish for is a high mega pixel sensor with a wide dynamic range in a Pro 1DX body.

I still don't get why Canon doesn't throw a 50 MP sensor -- hell, even the existing 5DS sensor -- into a 1D body. People don't just buy 1D rigs for the best sensors. There's a ton of exclusive 1-series functionality you cannot get in a 5DS, and the old 1Ds camp misses it pretty badly, I'd imagine.

- A

 

[bdunbar79]

1D body with wide DR = Yes, 1DX2. 1D body with high MP count = No. Gotta get the 5DS for that. I don't see Canon diving into a 1DS4.

All I ever wish for is a high mega pixel sensor with a wide dynamic range in a Pro 1DX body.

I still don't get why Canon doesn't throw a 50 MP sensor -- hell, even the existing 5DS sensor -- into a 1D body. People don't just buy 1D rigs for the best sensors. There's a ton of exclusive 1-series functionality you cannot get in a 5DS, and the old 1Ds camp misses it pretty badly, I'd imagine.

- A

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I was a 1Ds3 shooter myself and to me, there still hasn't been a true replacement. I'd love a 1Ds body with a 50 MP sensor, but that obviously isn't going to happen.

 

[9VIII]

1D body with wide DR = Yes, 1DX2. 1D body with high MP count = No. Gotta get the 5DS for that. I don't see Canon diving into a 1DS4.

All I ever wish for is a high mega pixel sensor with a wide dynamic range in a Pro 1DX body.

I still don't get why Canon doesn't throw a 50 MP sensor -- hell, even the existing 5DS sensor -- into a 1D body. People don't just buy 1D rigs for the best sensors. There's a ton of exclusive 1-series functionality you cannot get in a 5DS, and the old 1Ds camp misses it pretty badly, I'd imagine.

- A

Better yet, put that price tag to use and give us a 50MP BSI sensor in a 1D body. (or better yet 100MP? Canon has been hinting at the possibility of higher resolution products if sales shows it's a good idea). It may not be much competition for the A7RII but Portrait and event photograpers would probably jump on that like a herd of mice on cheese.

 

[ahsanford]

I still don't get why Canon doesn't throw a 50 MP sensor -- hell, even the existing 5DS sensor -- into a 1D body. People don't just buy 1D rigs for the best sensors. There's a ton of exclusive 1-series functionality you cannot get in a 5DS, and the old 1Ds camp misses it pretty badly, I'd imagine.

- A

Better yet, put that price tag to use and give us a 50MP BSI sensor in a 1D body. (or better yet 100MP? Canon has been hinting at the possibility of higher resolution products if sales shows it's a good idea). It may not be much competition for the A7RII but Portrait and event photograpers would probably jump on that like a herd of mice on cheese.

I'm not asking for an unreasonable thing, though. :

I just think Canon shot itself in the foot by fusing the 1Ds and 1D line into the 1DX. 4 years ago, the highest res sensor Canon had was around 21-22 MP, so telling the 1Ds camp to live with an 18 MP rig was not a huge setback.

But now, very well funded studio/landscape shooters have a choice of a 50 MP rig OR the 1-series goodness. If you are used to a 1-series rig, that's an impossible call to make.

In the era of offering 2 of everything in cameras:

• Astro and non-astro
• AA filter vs. no AA filter
• Nikon's memory card A version and memory card B version

I'm shocked Canon can't justify a high MP count 1-series rig. Other than the sensor, use all the same hardware of the 1DX II and simply slow down the framerate to not choke the buffer. How hard is that to do?

(Also, same question for why we can't have a rigid LCD option vs. a tilt-screen option, but that's OT.)

- A