Canon EOS 5D Mark III vs Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera

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<strong>From OneRiver Media


</strong>The folks at OneRiver Media decided to compare the EF model of the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855879-REG/Blackmagic_Design_BMD_CINECAM26KEF_Cinema_Camera.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera</a> with the Canon EOS 5D Mark III. They put both cameras through a battery of tests to compare sharpness, dynamic range, lowlight performance as well as a few others.</p>
<p>OneRiver recommends that you download the video to your computer, as they weren’t completely happy with the compression on Vimeo. Although, even the compressed file shows the differences in the two cameras pretty easily.</p>
<p><iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/49875510" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe></p>
<p><strong>Release Information</strong></p>

<blockquote><p>After several DAYS of trying to upload this video to Vimeo, we’ve ultimately had to reduce the bit-rate compression down to 18mbps (Vimeo recommends 5mbps, ha!), which is down from our minimum quality level of 40mbps. This means the SOURCE file you can download will also inhibit some amount of compression blocking and smearing, even in the Cinema Camera footage, which doesn’t originally exist in our ProRes master file. We’ve tried EVERYTHING, multiple types of uploads, different encoding methods, you name it. This is as best as it will get unless someone can host our 40mbps H.264 file (about 3GB) on their server that the world can download from.</p>
<p>Although the downloadable source file is a little better than the streaming version, it still doesn’t compare to the original ProRes source file which imposes no banding, compression artifacts, or chrominance sub-sampling (down from 4:4:4 to H.264′s 4:2:0 space). Please keep this in mind when viewing.</p>
<p>Unfortunately Vimeo only allows 100 downloads per day, so check back to download the 2GB file if the queue is filled. And remember to always watch in FULL 1080 HD or you will have added scaling and moiré issues on some of the tests than what is already been added by Vimeo and our horrid bit-rate restrictions.</p>
<p>Background: This video compares the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera and the Canon 5D Mark III in several tests. This includes dynamic range, sharpness, pushing levels, banding, artifacts, rolling shutter, chromakeying, wide/telephoto lengths, DOF (depth of field), low light, macro blocking, contrast, and more.</p>
<p>Thanks for watching. Hope this is as informative for you as it was for me making it.</p>
<p>Marco Solorio</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://blog.planet5d.com/2012/09/the-blackmagic-cinema-camera-vs-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii/" target="_blank">Planet5D</a>] via [<a href="http://www.onerivermedia.com/blog/" target="_blank">OneRiver Media</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
 
I really wonder what a comparison of 1D-C footage would look like. Canon should be able to pull out more color detail using different raw processing, but I'm skeptical about matching the dynamic range.

I'm not forgetting about the 5x higher price that Canon is asking for 4K video, but I wonder if the quality is really there...
 
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quartzie said:
I really wonder what a comparison of 1D-C footage would look like. Canon should be able to pull out more color detail using different raw processing, but I'm skeptical about matching the dynamic range.

I'm not forgetting about the 5x higher price that Canon is asking for 4K video, but I wonder if the quality is really there...

The short I saw shot on the 1DC looked amazing even with Vimeo compression. But I have to say this BMCC footage looks awesome too, I may have to pick one up, although the 2.3x crop is still pretty annoying.
 
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Axilrod said:
But I have to say this BMCC footage looks awesome too, I may have to pick one up, although the 2.3x crop is still pretty annoying.

If it weren't for the workflow, I would have ordered a BMCC immediately after seeing this video. But, the workflow is just something I'm not sure I want to deal with. But, now I know what I am missing. I have a feeling I'll figure out how to justify the workflow soon enough.
 
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JasonATL said:
If it weren't for the workflow, I would have ordered a BMCC immediately after seeing this video. But, the workflow is just something I'm not sure I want to deal with. But, now I know what I am missing. I have a feeling I'll figure out how to justify the workflow soon enough.

I agree, the RAW workflow can be a pain, and SSD space is pretty expensive (but getting cheaper). But I'm sure the 1080p ProRes files look much better than the 5D3 also, and that's probably how I'd shoot most of it. I'll probably end up getting one, although I'd like to check out the C100 too.

It's such a strange time right now with cameras, so many choices. Not sure what I want to do, but I'm leaning closer to getting rid of the 5D3/5D2. D800 footage from an external recorder looks amazing, BMCC footage looks amazing, it's a tough choice. I was considering a D800 and Panasonic GH3, or just add the BMCC and keep the 5D3. Decisions, decisions.
 
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Axilrod said:
It's such a strange time right now with cameras, so many choices. Not sure what I want to do, but I'm leaning closer to getting rid of the 5D3/5D2. D800 footage from an external recorder looks amazing, BMCC footage looks amazing, it's a tough choice. I was considering a D800 and Panasonic GH3, or just add the BMCC and keep the 5D3. Decisions, decisions.

Add to that the developments with Magic Lantern. If I read the development forums (and the ML code) correctly, ML is the verge of getting much higher quality files out of the 5D3, perhaps even higher resolution than we currently have (this is my speculation, not official news from ML).

As you said, strange and interesting times. I'm not spending money right now. Beginning of 2013 looks like about when the picture should be clearer for me (pun intended).
 
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nicku said:
Is normal... considering that 5D3 is primary a photographic camera not a video camera.

A pity they added such a strong aa filter on the 5d3 then, and no 5d3e in sight :-o

JasonATL said:
ML is the verge of getting much higher quality files out of the 5D3

"On the verge" might be too early, but the most important thing about the 5d3 (and maybe 650d) is that the digic5 is much faster so that's no barrier anymore - think custom codecs and 1080p/50.
 
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So far, the ML team has never been able to control the ASIC part of the Digic processors.
They've been very successful playing with the ARM part, but that's the one you use for the UI and for controlling the shot, and does nothing to process the footage.
So, unless the image processing in the ASIC can be tuned by parameters set from the ARM part, the image will be basically the same (as it was with the old models), and all you'll get are usability features (very welcome, in any case: I've already donated to the ML team at least a couple times).

The only way for better image is if the "decode the image for me" instruction includes a parameter for "with this final resolution" or "using this value in the quantitizer". We'll see...
 
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Marsu42 said:
"On the verge" might be too early, but the most important thing about the 5d3 (and maybe 650d) is that the digic5 is much faster so that's no barrier anymore - think custom codecs and 1080p/50.

Depends what we all take "on the verge" to mean ;). I know you that you know what ML has been able to do (e.g., alter quantization parameters and bitrate of the 5D3 codec). And, yes, they are being very professional about testing their hacks before calling them stable. So, they'll release it when they release it. "on the verge" to me means in the next year. Not tomorrow, not next month.

@NormamBates: while they can't process the footage directly (well, maybe they "can" by bypassing the encoder altogether), they can alter the encoder's parameters. I've used early beta versions of this on my 600D/T3i. I've been shooting ALL-I @100+Mbps on my 600D/T3i for a couple of weeks now and the results are quite impressive. To me, these are significant. As Marsu says, it isn't ready for primetime yet. But, it is enough of a "proof of concept" for me.

I still go back to my original comment. The BMD CC looks stunning. If I can get part of the way from the current 5D3 to the BMD CC with some improved image quality due to ML, I'll be happy I waited. But, I might not wait... I might just find a way to justify the headaches that come with a BMD CC.
 
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I just took another look at the video (topic of this thread). I put it on my NLE timeline.

The most striking comparisons to me were the night shots and the shots from the mountaintop. With regard to the latter, the differences are not quite as dramatic as they appear in the video. I applied sharpening and contrast to the Canon shot and it improved. Also, this is just my attempt to grade the Canon clips. Someone with better color grading skills could probably do better. Constrast and saturation are the main adds with a bit of color changing.

Shot comparison (no grading or sharpening): https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eiBM_Pwg4tjhQOD2B6SfjdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Shot comparison (Canon graded and sharpened): https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eiBM_Pwg4tjhQOD2B6SfjdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Still not to the level of the BMD camera, but closer. Also, the light was quite different in these two shots, contributing to differences (not necessarily favoring one over the other, but maybe). I'm not suggesting that there was any deception here. Rather, it is my own conclusion that the differences are not quite as stark upon closer inspection. They are still there, though.
 
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Multiple Sensors for better Dynamic Range?

Man the 5D III was blown away...
I am not a videographer so my view on the subject is purely impartial and for fun...

I am very disappointed that after 150 years of photography, nobody can come up with something close to what the human eye sees. I have been dreaming of a photographic camera that can deliver the kind of dynamic range the Blackmagic camera has.

No matter how expensive the camera, the dynamic range is still limited. HDR is a joke. Who has time to post process 3 photos to create what should be done in camera, and in real time.

I think it is totally possible to have a professional camera with 2, or 3, smaller sensors: One for highlights, one for shadows, and mid tones with a real time preview and on the fly processing.
I wouldn't care for huge megapixels or frames per second.
I would rather take a 7MP camera with this kind of dynamic range than a huge 40MP camera that still "sees" One light...
No matter the price... a $199 pocket camera or a $7000 1DX, the problem is still the same. You have to choose just one exposure...
I really dream of the day where the output of my camera is the same thing I see thru the view finder.
For example, take a picture of a well lit interior on a bright sunny day or a silhouette against a sunset without using a flash...
Maybe the technology is already out there. Even cheap video cameras can get close, and now seeing this amazing Blackmagic camera makes you realize the original 5D II was used by cinematographers because, at the time, it was cheap in comparison.
Who would use a photo camera to do video if they had a choice? Nobody...
The Blackmagic will dethrone the 5D II and III as the inexpensive cine camera alternative...
As I understand, the workflow can be a pain but then again, videographers spend countless hours editing, so they should be used to it... And with results like these, who cares?
 
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Here's a good article comparing the Blackmagic and 5D3...

http://www.eoshd.com/content/8841/5d-mark-iii-or-blackmagic-cinema-camera

It will be interesting to see how this whole sensor/codec shakeup plays out between Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Blackmagic, and anyone else who joins the fray.

While I feel like my 5D3's video capabilities are about to be dated, the bottom line is that you can make great videos with even modest equipment. Imagination still trump specs.
 
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clicstudio said:
No matter how expensive the camera, the dynamic range is still limited. HDR is a joke. Who has time to post process 3 photos to create what should be done in camera, and in real time.

[...]

As I understand, the workflow can be a pain but then again, videographers spend countless hours editing, so they should be used to it... And with results like these, who cares?

Well, at least you can do hdr video with Magic Lantern - and if ml manages to get 1080p/50 or /60 out of the 5d3 at least the current dynamic range would be much higher. And in comparison to merging photo hdr shots the workflow on video is so time-consuming another step (merging & motion-compensating hdr) doesn't make that much of a difference?
 
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Etienne said:
I want to see how the GH3 does.... Panasonic has deep pockets, is eager, hungry, and talented. Canon cannot hold back, the competition is fierce and getting hotter.
I wish I was 30 years younger, such an exciting time for video and photography.

I've heard nothing but good things thus far, apparently their new ALL-I codec is very solid. Detail levels on the hacked GH2 were ridiculous, comparable to the C300.

Here's a short Philip Bloom shot with a pre-production model (I'd recommend downloading it, as Vimeo's compression definitely affects color/sharpness): https://vimeo.com/49420579
 
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Re: Multiple Sensors for better Dynamic Range?

clicstudio said:
As I understand, the workflow can be a pain but then again, videographers spend countless hours editing, so they should be used to it... And with results like these, who cares?

It doesn't matter how long editing normally takes, time is money, either way the extra time to process footage is still an inconvenience. And it's not so much the additional workflow as it is the cost of SSD space, I think 30 min of footage in CinemaDNG is 200GB. Not to mention you need some serious processing power to even work with the files, it'll bog down even very high-end machines.

It's definitely not a perfect camera (but there isn't really such a thing), but I'm still interested. I may end up opting for the MFT mount instead of the EF. I'd probably end up shooting in 1080p ProRes most of the time, but true 1080p is still going to look much better than the 5D3.
 
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