Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

[Ozarker]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

...
My bad to you and PBD, I only based it on the MK IIIs. But if you look, as you clearly did, more are around the 3 year range than 12-18 months.
...
My point, as you know, is that Canon's higher end kit doesnt change 12-18 months

So rather than look at all of the statistical information you're only looking at the data that supports your theory.

Here's another theory for you - the 5DS was rushed to market because of Sony/Nikon and was really intended to arrive in 2016, so the 2015 camera was a compromise.

No, I'm saying with my interpretation of their current approach to development means they wont replace it as soon as you suggest they might.

It's not me suggesting they might replace it next year, it is the source of a rumor.

You want to disagree with the rumor so selectively choose pieces of data to support your thinking and ignore the rest.

My current view is 2017 not 2016, and that may change if the sensor tech in the 1Dx/5Dx is a step up as opposed to incremental.

That pretty much puts you on the fence.

It's the other way round for me - data and information drive my decision. You want to quote earlier models to refute, I've used later models. That's not selective, that's focusing on the recent.

Are you not selectively chosing which part of my conversation to dispute is therefore just PKB?

If you dont have an opinion, other to tell others "uh, no, it's not like that", then is that really a discussion?

If 2 years after the 5Ds, ie not before Jun 2017 put's me on the fence, then fine, I'll watch out for them damn pesky splinters

But if the information at hand changes, ie they do make a step change (for them) in sensor, then it would be stubborn and foolish not to adjust.

You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky this time. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.

 

[unfocused]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

...
You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky this time. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.

If you haven't figured it out by now, that's what this forum is all about.

Canon Rumors Guy prints something that will get people worked up and we get page after page of pure speculation based on peoples' limited personal experience which is seldom, if ever, relevant to the issue at hand.

It's like the old saying: Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.

The cheapest DSLR made today is vastly superior to anything that was available during the first 160 years of photography. Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.

It's all very silly, but if you embrace the silliness, it can be entertaining.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.

Are you saying that's not true? I vehemently disagree, and if I had more time I'd post a lengthy treatise describing every single thing wrong with your statement.

But I have a meeting to attend, so I'll sum up briefly:

"Sony."

;D

 

[Stu_bert]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

...
You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky this time. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.

If you haven't figured it out by now, that's what this forum is all about.

Canon Rumors Guy prints something that will get people worked up and we get page after page of pure speculation based on peoples' limited personal experience which is seldom, if ever, relevant to the issue at hand.

It's like the old saying: Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.

The cheapest DSLR made today is vastly superior to anything that was available during the first 160 years of photography. Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.

It's all very silly, but if you embrace the silliness, it can be entertaining.

Damn you beat me to it

It's a rumor site. I hope very few people take anything serious other than the launch annoucements and reviews. Lots of people give their view, some argue against views (some actually present an alternative view, others just say no/pick holes)

No one works for Canon, no one knows what their product strategy is but it doesn't stop anyone from some harmless fun guessing or pointing out others' mistakes

Amongst all that cogitation and regurgitation there are some genuinely useful posts. They also tend to have very little to do with the future...

But glad we've entertained you ;D

 

[StudentOfLight]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

If they make a dedicated cinema model (5DC), why would 18MP make sense? Why not just make it truly dedicated and go 12ish like Sony with 8.8 active for FF 4K? Not arguing. Just genuinely curious to your opinion.

18MP makes perfect sense in a 5DC.

UHD+ is 5120x2880. (5K)
While this is not a digital cinema display standard, the extra resolution could allow for cropping, panning and stabilization in post-.

If sensor is 3:2 aspect ratio then sensor would be 5120x3412 = 17.5MP

 

[Ozarker]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

...
You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky this time. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.

If you haven't figured it out by now, that's what this forum is all about.

Canon Rumors Guy prints something that will get people worked up and we get page after page of pure speculation based on peoples' limited personal experience which is seldom, if ever, relevant to the issue at hand.

It's like the old saying: Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.

The cheapest DSLR made today is vastly superior to anything that was available during the first 160 years of photography. Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.

It's all very silly, but if you embrace the silliness, it can be entertaining.

I beg to differ. It does take a $4000 camera and $3000 dollar lens to take a good photo and if my photos aren't perfect it is Canon's fault and I'm switching to Sony's mirrorless system! Canon never innovates and is a dying brand. They'll be out of business soon and Fuji is going to eat Canon's lunch.

Just kidding! ;D ;D ;D ;D

The entertainment value alone makes it worth it!

 

[scottkinfw]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

I don't think that the majority of prospective 5DIV buyers are interested in a high MP sensor. Also, I respectfully disagree that it is all about the sensor.

I would suggest that AF improvements, improvements in low light, modest increase in MP, more fps, is the general theme. I may be wrong.

sek

What's the shortest life span for a pro-level Canon DSLR?

Just over 15 months for the 1D MkII.

Damnit, you spoiled my fun!

But to continue this, the 1Ds (a $7999 camera), 1DII ($4499) and 1DIIN ($3999) all had life spans well under 3 years (some less than 2) and all cost more than the 5DS.

Sorry about spoiling your fun

As an aside to your three cameras, the 1Ds came out at a time when there was a frightening pace in tech advances, just look at it's predecessors, so even though it was a comparatively short lifespan it isn't surprising given the advances and Canon's ability to totally dominate the high end DSLR. And the 1D MkII and 1D MkIIN really were basically the same camera with just a relatively simple menu and screen refresh, not sure you could really class them as different models.

However, if Canon were to put the 5DS/R sensor into the 5D MkIV shell then you would be in a very similar situation as that 1D MkII/MkIIN, the current 5DS/R owners wouldn't feel so bad because it is the same sensor, which is 100% what that camera is about, and Canon would have their economies of scale in manufacturing. If they did the obvious and dropped the 5DS and only put the AA corrected 5DSR sensor in a 5D MkIV shell then those 5DS owners would have a unique camera that would go up in value, everybody would be happy.

I believe Canon were as surprised at the purchase rates of 5DS to 5DSR's as Nikon were with their D800 and D800e variants who now only offer the AA less D810, I think Canon will do the same and the sooner they could do that the sooner they reduce the different production models.

But what do we know? We are just pontificating basic high school economics, Canon might have more than enough shelved parts for 5D MkIII/5DSR/5DS production to continue indefinitely and supply expected repairs etc.

 

[scottkinfw]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Welcome to the fray young lady

...
My bad to you and PBD, I only based it on the MK IIIs. But if you look, as you clearly did, more are around the 3 year range than 12-18 months.
...
My point, as you know, is that Canon's higher end kit doesnt change 12-18 months

So rather than look at all of the statistical information you're only looking at the data that supports your theory.

Here's another theory for you - the 5DS was rushed to market because of Sony/Nikon and was really intended to arrive in 2016, so the 2015 camera was a compromise.

No, I'm saying with my interpretation of their current approach to development means they wont replace it as soon as you suggest they might.

It's not me suggesting they might replace it next year, it is the source of a rumor.

You want to disagree with the rumor so selectively choose pieces of data to support your thinking and ignore the rest.

My current view is 2017 not 2016, and that may change if the sensor tech in the 1Dx/5Dx is a step up as opposed to incremental.

That pretty much puts you on the fence.

It's the other way round for me - data and information drive my decision. You want to quote earlier models to refute, I've used later models. That's not selective, that's focusing on the recent.

Are you not selectively chosing which part of my conversation to dispute is therefore just PKB?

If you dont have an opinion, other to tell others "uh, no, it's not like that", then is that really a discussion?

If 2 years after the 5Ds, ie not before Jun 2017 put's me on the fence, then fine, I'll watch out for them damn pesky splinters

But if the information at hand changes, ie they do make a step change (for them) in sensor, then it would be stubborn and foolish not to adjust.

You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky this time. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.

 

[Ozarker]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Welcome to the fray young lady

...
My bad to you and PBD, I only based it on the MK IIIs. But if you look, as you clearly did, more are around the 3 year range than 12-18 months.
...
My point, as you know, is that Canon's higher end kit doesnt change 12-18 months

So rather than look at all of the statistical information you're only looking at the data that supports your theory.

Here's another theory for you - the 5DS was rushed to market because of Sony/Nikon and was really intended to arrive in 2016, so the 2015 camera was a compromise.

No, I'm saying with my interpretation of their current approach to development means they wont replace it as soon as you suggest they might.

It's not me suggesting they might replace it next year, it is the source of a rumor.

You want to disagree with the rumor so selectively choose pieces of data to support your thinking and ignore the rest.

My current view is 2017 not 2016, and that may change if the sensor tech in the 1Dx/5Dx is a step up as opposed to incremental.

That pretty much puts you on the fence.

It's the other way round for me - data and information drive my decision. You want to quote earlier models to refute, I've used later models. That's not selective, that's focusing on the recent.

Are you not selectively chosing which part of my conversation to dispute is therefore just PKB?

If you dont have an opinion, other to tell others "uh, no, it's not like that", then is that really a discussion?

If 2 years after the 5Ds, ie not before Jun 2017 put's me on the fence, then fine, I'll watch out for them damn pesky splinters

But if the information at hand changes, ie they do make a step change (for them) in sensor, then it would be stubborn and foolish not to adjust.

You men are funny. Each of you are doing nothing but speculating. Then you debate your speculations as though they really mean something. "I'm right because of this or that happening in the past." None of you know when or why Canon does what it does. Debating such is fruitless. Then when Canon does something somebody says, " See, I was right. I predicted this." No, you just got lucky this time. That's all. The truth is that none of you know what the heck is going on in the organization. You know absolutely nothing. So, quit getting your panties in a wad over it.

I've been here a while Hyena. ;D

 

[romanr74]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

I like the fact it isn't allowed here.

Years ago a neighbor came over to the guy's house across the street as the guy was working on his car. The neighbor was cussing a blue streak. My friend, working on the car, very calmly sent his daughter and my daughter over to my house (They were 6). As soon as they were inside he beat the living daylights out of the neighbor and told him to never speak that way in front of women and children again. The neighbor apologised and we never heard him do it again.

These days too many men haven't any idea how to behave like gentlemen in from of women and children. Now the women are getting just as bad. Sad.

I am just plain shocked...

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Cussing in front of kids=bad
Beating up someone for it=stupid
Creating a strong value to vulgar words=even more stupid
5DIV going to 18MP without improving ISO/and other shortfalls on the 5DsR=Jump to Sony

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

I don't think that the majority of prospective 5DIV buyers are interested in a high MP sensor. Also, I respectfully disagree that it is all about the sensor.

I would suggest that AF improvements, improvements in low light, modest increase in MP, more fps, is the general theme. I may be wrong.

sek

What's the shortest life span for a pro-level Canon DSLR?

Just over 15 months for the 1D MkII.

Damnit, you spoiled my fun!

But to continue this, the 1Ds (a $7999 camera), 1DII ($4499) and 1DIIN ($3999) all had life spans well under 3 years (some less than 2) and all cost more than the 5DS.

Sorry about spoiling your fun

As an aside to your three cameras, the 1Ds came out at a time when there was a frightening pace in tech advances, just look at it's predecessors, so even though it was a comparatively short lifespan it isn't surprising given the advances and Canon's ability to totally dominate the high end DSLR. And the 1D MkII and 1D MkIIN really were basically the same camera with just a relatively simple menu and screen refresh, not sure you could really class them as different models.

However, if Canon were to put the 5DS/R sensor into the 5D MkIV shell then you would be in a very similar situation as that 1D MkII/MkIIN, the current 5DS/R owners wouldn't feel so bad because it is the same sensor, which is 100% what that camera is about, and Canon would have their economies of scale in manufacturing. If they did the obvious and dropped the 5DS and only put the AA corrected 5DSR sensor in a 5D MkIV shell then those 5DS owners would have a unique camera that would go up in value, everybody would be happy.

I believe Canon were as surprised at the purchase rates of 5DS to 5DSR's as Nikon were with their D800 and D800e variants who now only offer the AA less D810, I think Canon will do the same and the sooner they could do that the sooner they reduce the different production models.

But what do we know? We are just pontificating basic high school economics, Canon might have more than enough shelved parts for 5D MkIII/5DSR/5DS production to continue indefinitely and supply expected repairs etc.

Nether do I, but you are not reading what I wrote. I was making the point that for people interested in a 5DS/R instead of a 5D MkIII it is all about the sensor, because that camera is all about it's sensor.

 

[MrToes]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

We just can only hope that Canon will bring the rabbit out of the hat and show us they can still make a sensor like no other! They have the resources to do so, I don't know why they are letting sales go else where? Hell I've even bought the competitors D810 to see what is on the other side of the grass.

 

[RobPan]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Yet, to read some of the comments on this forum, one would believe that it takes a $4,000 camera and a $3,000 lens to take a halfway decent picture, and even then, one cannot possibly take a good picture on a bright sunny day with an Canon camera.

Are you saying that's not true? I vehemently disagree, and if I had more time I'd post a lengthy treatise describing every single thing wrong with your statement.

But I have a meeting to attend, so I'll sum up briefly:

"Sony."

;D

Hmmm, I have replaced my stolen Canon camera with a Sony A7rII and am still able to make bad pictures.
Kind regards, Rob.

 

[chauncey]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

The only way that Canon is going to improve picture quality is to elevate the IQ of the 8 inches to the rear of the camera.

 

[penduboy]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Just sold my Canon 5d Mark II and now in the market for new Canon but not sure if i buy Mark III or wait for Mark IV or probably pick up Nikon D810. Currently Canon with 24-105 kit is about same price as Nikon kit with 24-120. Please help.

Thanks, Pendu

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Go to a camera shop and try the the D810 and 5D MkIII, the 5D MkIV won't be much different but as it isn't even announced yet let alone available (and even when it is will come with a hefty premium), I'd forget he 5D MkIV for now.

Both cameras are towards the end of their lifespan, both do their jobs very well and but for a very few technical applications the output from both is remarkably similar. Canon lenses are widely regarded as 'better', the Sony sensored Nikon is widely regarded as having a 'better' sensor. There are a lot of high end pros who use both so there really isn't anything to choose between them other than personal preference or if you need specific system capabilities, but if you need things like 17 TS-E's etc then you should already know that.

 

[penduboy]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Hi Privatebydesign,

Thanks for your quick response. Yes, you a right, it will be an expensive switch as I have few Canon L lenses including 24-70 and 70-200 2.8 and Canon 600 flash.

I have not plan using Tilt shift or any specialized lenses in the near future.

I am not a professional and shoot portraits, landscapes and general photography for hobby. If there is no day and night difference between these two cameras, I guess, I should stick with Canon.

I have tried D810 in shop and really like the feel of it. Canon 5d Mark III, I assume will feel the same as my Mark II.

I like some of the features in Nikon like setting your minimum and max ISO range e.g. if you want your camera to stay in ISO 100 and 800 while shooting. You can also set minimum shutter speed on d810 but not sure if similar features exist on Mark III.

Also Mark III is about 4 year old and Nikon D810 is only year and half old.

Hard to decide. Appreciate any help to make up my mind.

Thanks, Pendu

 

[RGF]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Just sold my Canon 5d Mark II and now in the market for new Canon but not sure if i buy Mark III or wait for Mark IV or probably pick up Nikon D810. Currently Canon with 24-105 kit is about same price as Nikon kit with 24-120. Please help.

Thanks, Pendu

Hi pendu

Do you have much invested in either system? If you have significant investment in lenses and flashes that should guide your decision. Having a dual manufacturer system is expensive and can be confusing.

If you are basically starting from scratch I would pick one and stick to you. What type of shooting do you mostly do or want to do? That may guide your decision. Personally I favor canon but I am on this forum so that should not surprise you.

as far as 5D M3 vs 5D M4, on exists and is a known quantity, the is only a rumor. Do you want a camera know or can you wait 6 months.

 

[penduboy]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV & 5DS Talk [CR2]

Hi RGF,

I am a Canon shooter and have 17-40 f4, 24-70 2.8 Mark I, 70-20 2.8 Mark II and Canon 600 flash. I can sell these at some loss if D810 is worth to switch.

I can use the Nikon Kit 24-120 and buy replacement nikon lenses as I sell my Canon.

I read lot of reviews and youtube videos and learn that Nikon D810 has better DR and better camera overall compare to Canon 5D Mark III. But I am not sure about the quality of Nikon glass.

Man it is so hard to decide.