Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR1]

[privatebydesign]

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

Why all the negativity?

Surely if you're looking at this site you're interested in Canon cameras and interested in what Canon actually is doing.

I like what Canon has produced in the 5D3 and am really interested in hearing about the next incarnation of this excellent gadget.

I would prefer to read fair assessments of current Canon products (fair, not in Canon's pocket) than perpetual pro-Sony anti-Canon rants.

When it comes to future, as yet unreleased products I see little point in bitching about what Canon has not done, or what you think was done wrongly. I see plenty of point in expressions of optimism for this new hoped-for feature or that new hoped-for feature; but PLEASE let's keep posts to this forum polite, reasonable, diplomatic, and, above all, rational.

Yes I don't post very often. Yes I am interested in hearing what Canon is doing. No I don't want to read a tonne of bitch-fests just to find the few actual interesting posts.

I'm interested in what people do with their Canon cameras, lenses and accessories. I'm interested in reading about what Canon is doing vis a vis new products - that is why I visit this website.

Personally I would appreciate it if there would be fewer negative anti-Canon rants.

Let's increase the ISO quality (so to speak) in the conversation about Canon products.

Forums need a Karma rating...i'm so sick of the fanboys on either side but much more annoyed when it's a Nikon, Sony or whomever troll that keeps on spouting off myopic shallow comments of what PEOPLE should be using...etc etc.

CR used to have a karma rating system, it didn't work and was voted out.

 

[unfocused]

CR used to have a karma rating system, it didn't work and was voted out.

I thought it worked fine. It had a moderating effect on comments and you could look at people's Karma rating and get a good idea if they were full of crap or not. Yeah, there were a handful of people who abused it, but I think it generally worked very well.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.

5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?

Or at least do away with AFMA? Dot Tune is a simple algorithm, perhaps something really sophisticated?

So the 5D has 22, 50, and w/ the IV what resolutions? Uber low light, generalist, and then uber high resolution.

Hmmm

I like the idea of the in body stabilization/instant AFMA idea

 

[gregory4000]

Sony A7r ll 24 mp NICE.
5 axis IS in camera 4.5 stop ( any lens you mount has IS including all your favorite canons..etc) WOW!!
Great Dynamic Range, Great!
4K full frame and super 35mm with internal recording, panning and s log "HOLY SH*T"!!
Great ISO WOW!!!
A true silent shutter and 500,000 actuations.
lighter weight, tilting screen ( BIG WOW for me)
A view finder that can zoom and see better in low light.
better focus.. ( If it's even close to Samsung Nx which by the way is next and neck with Nikon 4DS) WOW
Oh, almost forgot...cost less. $3200
Listen, Canon Rumors brought to our attention the specs of the upcoming Sony A7R ll. Why, to upset us? Or course not. It's to be fare and unbiased in the camera arena. Canon and Nikon have a very proud history and do make great cameras. But, not to be impressed with Sony is similar to mocking Lexus because it wasn't as fast as a Mustang back in 1990. Lexus didn't put Ford or GM out of the market, But it did encourage them to step up their game.
Thank you lexus, Infinity and the others.
Hopefully, these mirrorless cameras will lead Canon to offer some of these nice features on their upcoming cameras like the way they improved their c300 ll. Otherwise, like in the racing world. Watch out Canon, Niki Lauda is in your rear view mirror.

 

[privatebydesign]

CR used to have a karma rating system, it didn't work and was voted out.

I thought it worked fine. It had a moderating effect on comments and you could look at people's Karma rating and get a good idea if they were full of crap or not. Yeah, there were a handful of people who abused it, but I think it generally worked very well.

I didn't have an issue with it either, I voted to keep it. I also had one of the highest negative values of regular posters, but that was with a previous username.

 

[dolina]

So much talk on Sony here and I am starting to wonder if this was Sony Alpha Rumors. ;D

 

[privatebydesign]

I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.

5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?

Or at least do away with AFMA? Dot Tune is a simple algorithm, perhaps something really sophisticated?

So the 5D has 22, 50, and w/ the IV what resolutions? Uber low light, generalist, and then uber high resolution.

Hmmm

I like the idea of the in body stabilization/instant AFMA idea

I doubt if 5 axis includes front to back. It is probably roll, pitch, yaw, vertical lateral, horizontal lateral.

See? I didn't ignore you

 

[cmh716]

It's not an easy jump to switch to Sony for most of us. I've got a lot invested in Canon glass to switch to all Sony glass. All I hear is negative about the meatabones adapters. Terrible autofocus, camera lockups, etc. I just hope the 5DM4 has better DR, GPS and good FPS. Even the a7rii doesn't have GPS. Seems insane to have to manually geotag my photos with these $3-4k cameras (a7rii & 5ds, etc).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The Sony A7II release is going to have a major impact on the 5DIV specs that are in the final product. Sony just changed the game and in this particular case Canon has to capitulate.

Boston College just filled their whole baseball roster with left-handed hitters. That changes the game, and in this particular case the New York Yankees will have to capitulate and fill their bullpen with left-handed pitchers.

(In case the sports analogy is lost on you, the point is a Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR.)

" Sony MILC isn't in the same league as a Canon dSLR." really come on now you are saying Canon is that much better? for real? do you own stock in Canon or something i don't get you.

A7rII beats the 5Ds already and if it has close to 5D4 ISO performance the 5D4 at low MP will be a joke other then the FPS

Sony made one camera that Canon needs to make 2 because they don't have the tech to release a camera like the A7rII.

maybe by the time 5D5 comes out Canon will have woken up and stop ripping people of.

2 camera’s you haven’t even touched yet and one camera (5DIV) that is nothing more than a rumor at the moment and you already know which one is best… Doesn’t exactly do wonders for one’s credibility, I think.

The best payed professionals are in what I would call the top league or highest level. Look at the systems those people are using and tell me where Sony systems are the clear winners? The top in landscape and fashion are using medium format digital or large format film. The top in sports and nature are using DSLR’s made by Canon and Nikon. Journalism, wedding, event..? Please show me where Sony is regarded the best option by the top level pro’s.

This doesn’t make Sony camera’s bad camera’s. They outperform Canon on sensors, but that alone isn’t enough to win over a substantial amount of top level pro’s to really compete in the same league.
Maybe the A7rII will make a change and MILC will rule the world but people said the same thing 5 years ago…

Don’t get me wrong, I like what Sony is doing and I really want Canon to take bigger steps, but so far Sony hasn’t pushed hard enough to really hurt Canon/Nikon. I hope they will though, we (the consumer) will benefit from it.

The A7R II could well take over the stills camera video market (beyond the low end) and I"d imagine it might do quite well for the serious landscape market. I could see many Canon users maybe hanging onto a 5D3/7D2 for sports/action/macros/stuff in general when the quick UI and AF are key and then add the A7R II to get the landscape sensor they've been crying for and the seemingly excellent 4k video (the only possible niggle for the video is whether the apparent 8bit and some other processing are going to hurt the video DR on it, otherwise it's already proven to have super detail with a reasonable natural look which is pretty impressive).

Of course if Canon had just made the 5Ds with a sensor and video and video usability features like the A7R II and 6fps FF and a RAW crop mode, I don't think a single Canon user would even look at the A7R II or remotely think of switching to Nikon. I am getting a little worried that they may have fallen hopelessly behind the ability to produce modern sensors. All the stacked fast read out, on chip ADC, etc. etc. can't really be done on their equipment AFAIK. If they want high DR, ultra fast readout without overheating and getting around rolling shutter/jello and so on I wonder if they might not be stuck. Maybe they can still manage the dual ISO read out at moderate MP counts, but can they pull that off at very high MP counts and can do they do all that stuff and get ultra fast read out to get around for the next next round? Hopefully, but I don't know. They haven't even done it yet at any level (beyond the C300 II to some extent).

But, on the plus side, ideal as it is not, at least there are Sony mirrorless now to hook your EF lenses into so you always have a way to get video and landscape stills with the new tech out of your Canon lenses even the Sony bodies are as yet still too compromised to be the one and only all-around body for those who also do serious action and stuff where you just need the weather sealing and AF and so on to work and you can't mess around, etc.

I think the problem with the 5Ds is that while in some ways it is much better in that it is a DSLR, great UI, I'd imagine great AF, without a fast RAW crop mode it's too slow to quite get away with doubling as any sort of an action camera on the side (sports of wildlife) and the RAW buffer is supposedly very poor, which if true, makes it even yet worse for all that sports and wildlife action stuff. And the lack of a crop mode sure means a lot of wasted space when using it as a reach camera to shoot say distant birds (granted the Sony has some issues with this too, AFAIK no crop modes, although it's files are a little smaller) And it doesn't bring anything new to video, in fact I'd dare say it's a lot worse than the current 5D3 since the 5Ds doesn't take ML yet and there is no guarantee it ever will, much less expand video in new ways.

So for those who do some action it will have to be an added not a replacement camera and then for those who do video too they might need to make an additional purchase of either some BM Ursa or maybe an A7R II, but at the point they need ot get the A7RII perhaps anyway....

And then for landscapes, it brings the MP and probably top color fidelity and non-compressed RAWs which are all awesome, but then the low ISO DR is rather out of date for this day and age so it's not like it really quite hits it as a specialist high MP uber landscape camera either.

If you care not a whit about video and don't shoot any DR limited situations much then it's certain pretty fine, and despite being what I'd have to say is overpriced, still reasonably cost effective (especially if you don't do any action either and can sell your old bodies to help fund this one) and surely a nicer experience than a Sony mirrorless and more all-around. If you care about video and action then it's expensive since you need your current body plus the 5Ds plus another thing for video (and if you care about DR at low ISO for stills, you still don't have that).

But I could really see adding (or even replacing their current Canon body, for those who simply don't do action/sports/must rely on it type shooting/willing to live with UI compromises at all times) an A7R II exciting a lot more people since you get the high MP PLUS the high DR and you also get your aliasing/moire-free with very crisp detail (not waxy or mushy) 4k video with basic video usability features too.

It would help a bit if Sony was able to get out a firmware to give it a non-lossy, true RAW option though.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.

Source: http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/canon-leads-the-way-in-world-press-photo-nominations/

These photogs go to warzones or disaster areas to get their perfect images.

So why is Canon inferior?

PJ are only the most demanding in certain ways. Ultimate image quality isn't often that key to them and if they are shooting for newspapers, not so hot shots often print nearly as well as superb ones (talking noise/color/detail/etc.) so the differences between whatever is out there at this point don't really matter much if they newsprint shooters at this point. And not many of them are putting up top quality 4k video or anything either.

In terms of a solid body that just works and is easy and natural to use, AF is decent, has some buffer and speed when needed, good service, nice sealing, etc. then they can be pretty demanding, very much if also shooting sports.

And sure I'm not sure the A7R II stacks up for that so well. (and for those who are super literal and who don't read into things especially not NY area ways of stating things, by "not sure" and I mean "very clearly sure that it doesn't")

The Nikons do just fine for that though (maybe a bit worse for the service though).

OTOH those going for the bodies that could get a high quality shot out of the most diverse array or low to mid ISO conditions and who are demanding in that way would certainly find their demands met better with non-Canon sensors. And for those demanding cameras with decent video usability features built in pretty much anything other than Canon hits those demands better (ML does rescue some models to some extent though) and for those demanding top quality video that is either not as space crazy as ML RAW or 4k Canon doesn't deliver to their top demands these days either as well as others.

So it all depends upon what the demands are as to who is the most demanding.

Also a lot of PJs are struggling these days as are most outlets and neither is necessarily itching to spend money to swap around systems.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.

5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?

Or at least do away with AFMA? Dot Tune is a simple algorithm, perhaps something really sophisticated?

So the 5D has 22, 50, and w/ the IV what resolutions? Uber low light, generalist, and then uber high resolution.

Hmmm

I like the idea of the in body stabilization/instant AFMA idea

IS doesn't have anything to do with AFMA

 

[dolina]

PJ also work with magazines that would probably have a higher standard in IQ than newsprint.

But remember, most people are already happy with smartphone photos and anything exceeding that is a mega bonus for them.

I guess you could become critical with IQ when you are after the last 1% of performance but the cost/hassle sharply shoots up to the point that it is way way too inconvenient.

Rational people shooting whatever system will switch to a different system so long as it makes sense to them.

I'm ready to jump ship if Canon screws up that badly.

PJ are only the most demanding in certain ways. Ultimate image quality isn't often that key to them and if they are shooting for newspapers, not so hot shots often print nearly as well as superb ones (talking noise/color/detail/etc.) so the differences between whatever is out there at this point don't really matter much if they newsprint shooters at this point. And not many of them are putting up top quality 4k video or anything either.

In terms of a solid body that just works and is easy and natural to use, AF is decent, has some buffer and speed when needed, good service, nice sealing, etc. then they can be pretty demanding, very much if also shooting sports.

And sure I'm not sure the A7R II stacks up for that so well. (and for those who are super literal and who don't read into things especially not NY area ways of stating things, by "not sure" and I mean "very clearly sure that it doesn't")

The Nikons do just fine for that though (maybe a bit worse for the service though).

OTOH those going for the bodies that could get a high quality shot out of the most diverse array or low to mid ISO conditions and who are demanding in that way would certainly find their demands met better with non-Canon sensors. And for those demanding cameras with decent video usability features built in pretty much anything other than Canon hits those demands better (ML does rescue some models to some extent though) and for those demanding top quality video that is either not as space crazy as ML RAW or 4k Canon doesn't deliver to their top demands these days either as well as others.

So it all depends upon what the demands are as to who is the most demanding.

Also a lot of PJs are struggling these days as are most outlets and neither is necessarily itching to spend money to swap around systems.

 

[Loswr]

I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.

5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?

Or at least do away with AFMA? Dot Tune is a simple algorithm, perhaps something really sophisticated?

So the 5D has 22, 50, and w/ the IV what resolutions? Uber low light, generalist, and then uber high resolution.

Hmmm

I like the idea of the in body stabilization/instant AFMA idea

I doubt if 5 axis includes front to back. It is probably roll, pitch, yaw, vertical lateral, horizontal lateral.

See? I didn't ignore you

Since an "axis" is a line about which something rotates, and the vertical and horizontal movements are translations not rotations, "5 axis IBIS" is a lie. But I guess Canon had already trademarked Hybrid IS.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

WOW 2 comments

The point on hybrid is an extra point that points to the idea that the lens can handle the jiggle, the sensor can handle the focus in/out.

Instead of the lens fiddling w/ the adjusted focal distance, for the AFMA, the sensor can do this as the lens reports gross distance to the subject, the sensor makes the fine focal adj? Might throw off the optical?

With all the ability to fine tune the positioning of the sensor, there may someday be interchangeable sensors - vs. having to buy several bodies. Imagine if the 5dIV comes out as a 16 mp uber low light monster, that would give the 5dIII as the general purpose, and the 5DS(r) as the uber high resolution.

 

[dolina]

Going back to the 5D Mark IV.

Here is the price history of the various 5D bodies over the decade.

Mark I
October 2005 priced at $3,299 (US) / €3,459 (EU).

Mark II
December 2008 priced at $2,699 (US), € 2,499 (EU), £ 2,299 (UK)

Mark III
March 2012 priced at $3,499 / €3,299 / £2,999.99.

5DS & 5DS R
June 2015 priced at $3,699.00 respectively $3,899.00

Mark IV?

Won't exceed $4,000.

 

[bdunbar79]

The most demanding of photographers namely photojournalists primarily use Canon systems.
...

Who owns the camera: the photographer or their employer?

Both? There are freelance and non-freelance photojournalists.

From a commercial/business point of view Canon makes the most sense.
...

Canon has a pretty good stranglehold on the commercial sector, although there were reports of Getty changing over from Canon to Nikon a year or two ago...

This history likely goes back to the film era and with the cost of changing over being too high, status quo remains...

I can tell you first hand Getty is not changing to Nikon, considering most of the photographers I know just got 1Dx's.

 

[dolina]

Canon has a pretty good stranglehold on the commercial sector, although there were reports of Getty changing over from Canon to Nikon a year or two ago...

This history likely goes back to the film era and with the cost of changing over being too high, status quo remains...

When the 1D3 had a malfunctioning AF the photonews agencies switched over to Nikon. This was clearly seen during the the World Cup and Olympics of that time.

When the 1D4 came out they slowly went back to Canon.

Personal users like business users must look at the cost aspects of each system and it is mighty difficult to switch.

 

[NancyP]

Thread summation:
1. A 5D4 is in the works
2. We don't know much about it
3. speculation about DR and other sensor factors, comparing a not-yet-available Canon camera with a not-yet-tested new Sony sensor in a MILC format

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I have fun posting and getting ignored - perhaps I am not extreme enough.

5 axis stabilization I interpret has being able to fine tune focus w/ some software and actuators?

Or at least do away with AFMA? Dot Tune is a simple algorithm, perhaps something really sophisticated?

So the 5D has 22, 50, and w/ the IV what resolutions? Uber low light, generalist, and then uber high resolution.

Hmmm

I like the idea of the in body stabilization/instant AFMA idea

But I should add, that while IS has nothing to do with needing AFMA or not the way this camera does AF, finishing it off with contrast sensor detect means that you don't need any AFMA (although if the value is way off I imagine it might have the phase initial stage perhaps not work ideally, although you'd think it would probably not likely be so far off that it would mstter though.

So you probably will get both your in body IS (you will) and auto-AMFA (because it's not even needed at all).

 

[ebphoto]

Is the 5D Mark IV to be "superior" to the new 5ds (both) cannot tell. both are priced 1K+ over the mark II & III. any idea or rumor of price? i still have my trusty mark II and love it, it's a workhorse. not clear (and I have been reading all i can find on both models) not sure which is more sensible to upgrade to. i can easily wait till '16. sentimentally i'd like to stick with the mark series. thoughts??