Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR2]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
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My 5D3 does everything I want and need for photography. If the 5D4 doesn't offer compelling video upgrade, then it will definitely be a pass for me.
1080p is quickly becoming the new SD video. 4K TV's are dropping in price like a stone. In a couple of years nobody will buy any video product that is less than 4K. It is already amazing how far expectations have changed in one year. This is accelerating.
Canon really needs to upgrade the C100 to a mark III . It didn't last a year before becoming obsolete. This is not your parents video age. The pace of change is blazing right now. Canon's "hold back the features" approach is a mistake.
1080p is quickly becoming the new SD video. 4K TV's are dropping in price like a stone. In a couple of years nobody will buy any video product that is less than 4K. It is already amazing how far expectations have changed in one year. This is accelerating.
Canon really needs to upgrade the C100 to a mark III . It didn't last a year before becoming obsolete. This is not your parents video age. The pace of change is blazing right now. Canon's "hold back the features" approach is a mistake.
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Canon Rumors said:
I will agree on the comment that more people chose the C300 over the 1DC.
But I don't agree on the comment that "people didn't want the DSLR form factor for 4K workflow, even when pricing was cut almost in half."
And, if thats the market research that they are going by... they need to expand their focus beyond their own brand.
Watch from 4:40 to 5:20 - NAB 2015 - These guys aren't quoting DXOMark or some other biased company.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPvaLrrpFrk
Thats whats happening... is it Mirrorless or the features that Mirrorless carries???
You know what went wrong with the 1DC???
-Motion JPEG - I don't even know what that is... forget the workflow...
&
-Pricing - yes, they cut it half... but to compete with the pricing of the GH4, NX1, A7s, a7rII, a7sII - Its too late!
In my opinion, if they had the current price on the day it was released (which is still more expensive than the price of the 1DX when it was released), and allowed Magic Lantern to tweak it. They won't have this problem... People would have bought (because that was the only one of its kind on the market), Motion JPEG would be a new standard and none of us would be complaining.
Of course, I would be expecting the 1DC would have dropped half of half of its price by now too.
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Canon Rumors said:
IMHO, if they think the driving factor for the 5D Mark II was the fact that there was video in an ergonomic package like the 5D series, they have severely misinterpreted the whole market (other than size). Much of the fervor surrounding it was the fact that you could get cinema level video (DOF, etc) from a small, comparatively inexpensive package. (Compared to current market solutions at the time). So - from there, they took that success, and made their Cinema EOS line much bigger, and much more expensive. IMO, what Canon essentially did, was start to abandon one market with the 5D and move to a related, but completely separate market of digital Cinema cameras. Don't get me wrong - I think it was a smart move to get into that market, but to confuse or confound that with the market they were/are in with the 5D series is a mistake - it's two separate animals.
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Dude! you made me laugh, because it is true.George D. said:
At this time I see no one reason for me to upgrade my 5D3 and 1DX.
4K is not the aspect of video that would make my work better and surely is not even within the first 10 factors I think 5D3 weakest point from a video perspective. All these weaknesses , my opinion, are better handled by the EOS C100.
For me 4K is just a "want" not "need" feature. 4 years from now - who knows? But today, no way. I simply have no time or space to handle big files with my current computer. That is a post production nightmare. Stabilization alone would drive me crazy.
Frankly, I have been wondering how long does it take to stabilize a 4min 4K video in Davinci or Premiere? And if you shoot a wedding every two weeks, would you shoot it with a 4K entirely? I don't know, I am just wondering.
Just allow 4K through HDMI or SDI so I can record it for future use (if needed - and that is a big IF) and I am good.
Back to the 5D4, I would upgrade only if they improve at least one stop the sync speed. I am a getting older flash photographer and dragging big flashes all over the place is painful.
Other than that, I will skip. It is not worth my 3.5K My current gear can handle whatever I need.
On the other hand, people who are currently using a crop sensor would find these "little" improvement quite attractive. I wouldn't be surprised if someone would buy a 5D4 (or other camera) vs 5D3 just for the sake of 4K, even if he doesn't really know if he needs it or not and sales pitch would convince him even more.
"Professionalism" in photography doesn't belong to the connected alone like it used to be. Youtube would make sure of that.
The market is changing as many hobbyists buy 3.5K camera just because they can afford it, and they would show off that their camera can do 4K.
Believe me:"they are loud".
Does canon want to lose these customers? It is up to them.
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I don't care about 4k. A camcorder can do a much better job than an SLR.
An increase in dynamic range is a must, lower high ISO noise, a nice bump in MP count is expected doesn't have to be too much. The new tech like anti flicker and as some have stated Magic Lantern type improvements, the ML improvements just shows Canon wasn't trying hard enough.
Ergonomics are spot on and need little to no changes.
An increase in dynamic range is a must, lower high ISO noise, a nice bump in MP count is expected doesn't have to be too much. The new tech like anti flicker and as some have stated Magic Lantern type improvements, the ML improvements just shows Canon wasn't trying hard enough.
Ergonomics are spot on and need little to no changes.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
So much hand-wringing when we haven't even seen anything really interesting about what might actually be in the camera (as opposed to what might not be). I'll reserve judgment until we start seeing some actual specs.
I do find it surprising that there would be no 4K video in the 5DIV, but I have learned over the years that Craig's sources are usually pretty good once we get to CR2-CR3, so it's possible. I am guessing that if that's the case, it has nothing to do with market differentiation, but everything to do with technical limitations.
Canon doesn't release junk and if they don't feel they can do 4K justice, they won't put it in.
For the past several years I've been saying that after several years of convergence, we are likely to see a divergence between video and stills cameras. The demands that each places on the system may be such that it is getting harder and harder to produce a really superior DSLR that does both well.
I'm going to suggest something that I'm sure will get people riled up, but I would not be at all surprised to see the 80D have 4K video. An 80D with 4K video, flip screen, improved touch screen follow focus (smoother with more options on how fast it changes focus), headphone jack, maybe even a second slot for CFast (but I doubt it) could make the 80D the enthusiast's top choice for video.
As for the 5DIV, I'm not wild about higher megapixels, but as long as we still get improved high ISO performance, I really don't care. For me, it's not about some arbitrary number. It's about squeezing just a little more quality out in low-light situations. Given the improvements I've seen in the 7DII, I am confident Canon will deliver on ISO performance.
I'm much more interested as well in what other features we may see. What the autofocus system might be like and what the frame rate might be. After using a 7DII for a few months, when I try to shoot sports with the 5DIII, I feel like I'm shooting in slow motion.
I do find it surprising that there would be no 4K video in the 5DIV, but I have learned over the years that Craig's sources are usually pretty good once we get to CR2-CR3, so it's possible. I am guessing that if that's the case, it has nothing to do with market differentiation, but everything to do with technical limitations.
Canon doesn't release junk and if they don't feel they can do 4K justice, they won't put it in.
For the past several years I've been saying that after several years of convergence, we are likely to see a divergence between video and stills cameras. The demands that each places on the system may be such that it is getting harder and harder to produce a really superior DSLR that does both well.
I'm going to suggest something that I'm sure will get people riled up, but I would not be at all surprised to see the 80D have 4K video. An 80D with 4K video, flip screen, improved touch screen follow focus (smoother with more options on how fast it changes focus), headphone jack, maybe even a second slot for CFast (but I doubt it) could make the 80D the enthusiast's top choice for video.
As for the 5DIV, I'm not wild about higher megapixels, but as long as we still get improved high ISO performance, I really don't care. For me, it's not about some arbitrary number. It's about squeezing just a little more quality out in low-light situations. Given the improvements I've seen in the 7DII, I am confident Canon will deliver on ISO performance.
I'm much more interested as well in what other features we may see. What the autofocus system might be like and what the frame rate might be. After using a 7DII for a few months, when I try to shoot sports with the 5DIII, I feel like I'm shooting in slow motion.
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OPG said:This is a camera. Say hello camera!
This is a camera. Say hello camera!
This is a video camera. Say hello video camera!
Even this thing is a nice video camera. Say hello too!
...and this is a very expensive toy! Choking hazard for children under the age of 3.
You get what you pay for in life!
Armchair amateurs with big egos become cynics. A pro uses whatever tool is best for the job.
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OPG said:
I couldn't agree more, except I do think that expensive toy may be indeed an expensive toy but also a real camera
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OPG said:I'll definitely remember that the next time I need to get out of my armchair and walk into my studio! ;D
I'll also remember that that image is from the studio of Marcelo Isarrualde. I mean really... :
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clarksbrother said:OPG said:I'll definitely remember that the next time I need to get out of my armchair and walk into my studio! ;D
I'll also remember that that image is from the studio of Marcelo Isarrualde. I mean really... :
It's the thought of a well designed studio that counts! ;D
I wasn't passing the studio as my own. Tough crowd. I'll take my ironic comedy somewhere else and make sure to mark "sarcasm" next time.
Thanks for knowing the name though. I was looking all over for it.
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My thinking is that the 5D Mark IV will not have 4K because it will have 8K with full pixel readout and no pixel binning, like the Sony A7S II has in 4K. Wouldn't this make sense considering that the 5D Mark II was the groundbreaker at the time it was introduced by including HD video? Wouldn't Canon wish to have another groundbreaking camera. Just think of the possibilities....
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neuroanatomist said:It must have 4K video and 15 stops of DR or the 5DIV won't sell and Canon will fail. Or at least I won't be buying one...but then, I wasn't going to anyway.
Sony has got quite better with the 2nd iteration of the 7 series. Considering the shorter lifecycle of Sonys I'd at least try to future proof even if just a little. Also, for the first timers, grabbing an expensive SLR, they might be negatively surprised that even their smartphones are somewhat more capable not talking about the ease of use. The cameras in smartphones are still getting better. I'm afraid, that ever lasting conservativeness might have serious consequences (yeah I see this far they have stayed afloat, but then again there seems to be less visibility and recognition of the brand as each year passes by).
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In the openning remarks it was suggested we may see two cameras, one maybe video biased the other still biased its just a thought.
When the 5D MKII was launched at Photokina on the 17th September 2008 I was at the launch event and at no time did Canon mention videographers they mentioned wedding photographers and enforcement agencies as likely purchasers, the camera was actually handicapped frame rate wise until later firmware changes. It opened pandoras box but since its launch companies like Black Magic, Sony, Panasonic have produced better low priced video cameras and we now NEVER get asked for video DSLRs. As to the whole 8K / 4K debate its really like comparing apples & oranges for instance the Sony F65 is an 8K camera downsampled to 4K and whilst NHK etc. are carrying out 8K broadcast tests practical 8K broadcast is years & years away and thats without getting into viewing distances etc. Most 4K origination is being shown as 2K or less and then there are the multiple flavours of 4K and whether they are shown as H.264 (most likely) or H.265 (more unlikely) so much of that resolution & color space is not actually being realized.
Personally I would not use a DSLR for 4K (or 1080P) its form factor by comparison to true video cameras is compromised their are better options.
The 5D lineup are better served giving people Resolution & DR options and possibly colorimagery options but thats a personal view and others will differ.
When the 5D MKII was launched at Photokina on the 17th September 2008 I was at the launch event and at no time did Canon mention videographers they mentioned wedding photographers and enforcement agencies as likely purchasers, the camera was actually handicapped frame rate wise until later firmware changes. It opened pandoras box but since its launch companies like Black Magic, Sony, Panasonic have produced better low priced video cameras and we now NEVER get asked for video DSLRs. As to the whole 8K / 4K debate its really like comparing apples & oranges for instance the Sony F65 is an 8K camera downsampled to 4K and whilst NHK etc. are carrying out 8K broadcast tests practical 8K broadcast is years & years away and thats without getting into viewing distances etc. Most 4K origination is being shown as 2K or less and then there are the multiple flavours of 4K and whether they are shown as H.264 (most likely) or H.265 (more unlikely) so much of that resolution & color space is not actually being realized.
Personally I would not use a DSLR for 4K (or 1080P) its form factor by comparison to true video cameras is compromised their are better options.
The 5D lineup are better served giving people Resolution & DR options and possibly colorimagery options but thats a personal view and others will differ.
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