Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR2]

[jeffa4444]

Let's applaud Canon for striking the 4K video nonsense from a still camera. It keeps the price down for the rest of us, and that is a great thing! For those wanting a video camera, here's my suggestion: Buy a video camera.

As far as more megapickles, dill or kosher, I'm full of pickles. I do not need more. I do not really want more. Fills memory cards faster. Takes longer to download/upload. Means my late-2010 desktop is getting poised for a forced upgrade.

Better quality sensors, not quantity. 18MP will do fine. 22MP great, maybe even 24MP, but then the curve turns downhill for me. I'm paying for things I do not need. Just as the 50MP 5Ds revealed, many Canon lenses are not up to the task of resolving the light that tightly. More costs in getting the latest and greatest Version II or III. I will gladly pay for less noise and more dynamic range. That is the quality I seek.

I realize others have differing opinions for their personal wants and needs. The cost of one size fits all is too high.

I think a 2010 PC is going to start creaking in the near future anyway...

But you could always shoot Mraw/Sraw on a higher res sensor, if you're concerned about memory and bandwidth?

Never said a 2010 PC.
Six-core Mac Pro Tower

mRAW would be significantly less than existing sensors - generally about half the native megapixels. Again, paying for more than necessary. I'm sure someone out there thinks the 5Ds is not enough at 50MP and wants 80MP or 100MP. Great for them, but I really do feel going beyond 24MP is overkill for what many people need.

According to Canon mRaw is 28MP so its more than half the native 50.6MP. As an owner of the 5DS the main reason I bought it was for landscape and the ability to crop shots in Lightroom and preserve detail & sharpness beyond what I could get from my 6D and in this respect the camera acheives that. Ive been very impressed with just how well the detail in written words, numbers, edges of leaves, fine branches etc. can be enlarged. I print a lot of photos to A3 and comparing these to former shots from the 6D which in themselves are still very good the finer detail is certainly better.

 

[pedro]

mRAW would be significantly less than existing sensors - generally about half the native megapixels. Again, paying for more than necessary. I'm sure someone out there thinks the 5Ds is not enough at 50MP and wants 80MP or 100MP. Great for them, but I really do feel going beyond 24MP is overkill for what many people need.

24 MP would be way enough for me as well! Could someone here on this forum please explain to me, why Canon do not pass down their new 24 MP sensor to the rumored 5DIV as well? Aren't there enough other features who differentiate the 1Dx from a 5D anyway? Speed, built quality, etc?

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

For me, 28MP is fine, but yes I'd love to have some of the color from the 5ds sensor move to the mk4. I have zero need for video, so 4k really means nothing for me. I'm fine with the current frame rate as I almost never move it to high speed burst anyways, I'm generally on silent shutter.

I'd like more DR, more high ISO quality, more cross type AF points, built in intervalometer/bulb timer, and that would pretty much cover it for me!

 

[pedro]

For me, 28MP is fine, but yes I'd love to have some of the color from the 5ds sensor move to the mk4. I have zero need for video, so 4k really means nothing for me. I'm fine with the current frame rate as I almost never move it to high speed burst anyways, I'm generally on silent shutter.

I'd like more DR, more high ISO quality, more cross type AF points, built in intervalometer/bulb timer, and that would pretty much cover it for me!

Someone earlier in the thread said, that at 28 MP high ISO IQ would start getting worse... Then IMHO Canon should at least equip the 5DIV with a sensor based on the new tech mentioned in reference to the 1DX2...

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

For me, 28MP is fine, but yes I'd love to have some of the color from the 5ds sensor move to the mk4. I have zero need for video, so 4k really means nothing for me. I'm fine with the current frame rate as I almost never move it to high speed burst anyways, I'm generally on silent shutter.

I'd like more DR, more high ISO quality, more cross type AF points, built in intervalometer/bulb timer, and that would pretty much cover it for me!

Someone earlier in the thread said, that at 28 MP high ISO IQ would start getting worse... Then IMHO Canon should at least equip the 5DIV with a sensor based on the new tech mentioned in reference to the 1DX2...

note, I'm not talking huge ISO gains, just a little bit better which they should be able to do with new sensor tech (I've been renting the 5ds and 5dsr and if at 50 MP's I can get as clean shots at higher iso's I'm pretty sure at 28 MP's you should be able to get a bit more than what you get with the 5d3).

 

[pedro]

Thank you, Chuck. Still a bit wondering, why the 5DIV doesn't get the 24 MP sensor as well... For my super lowlight escapades I guess I'll go the Sony a7sII route anytime prices get lower. After reading Steve Huff's report about testing the Sony A7SII in extreme light, this seems to be a viable alternate route. http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/10/26/shooting-at-iso-409600-with-the-sony-a7sii/

A 6D/6DII surely could do a great allrounder job then, although we are talking different systems here...

 

[sanj]

Continuing to respond/defend yourself is just drawing more attention to the situation. You better just quietly delete your account and make a new one. ;D

He could do that, or we could forgive him for making a mistake before the thread gets shut down.

Come on guys. It's the holiday season.

Thank you! I apologize. I took down the photo, I deleted the post. It won't happen again.

Bravo. Looking forward to further discussions with you.

 

[privatebydesign]

Let's applaud Canon for striking the 4K video nonsense from a still camera. It keeps the price down for the rest of us, and that is a great thing! For those wanting a video camera, here's my suggestion: Buy a video camera.

As far as more megapickles, dill or kosher, I'm full of pickles. I do not need more. I do not really want more. Fills memory cards faster. Takes longer to download/upload. Means my late-2010 desktop is getting poised for a forced upgrade.

Better quality sensors, not quantity. 18MP will do fine. 22MP great, maybe even 24MP, but then the curve turns downhill for me. I'm paying for things I do not need. Just as the 50MP 5Ds revealed, many Canon lenses are not up to the task of resolving the light that tightly. More costs in getting the latest and greatest Version II or III. I will gladly pay for less noise and more dynamic range. That is the quality I seek.

I realize others have differing opinions for their personal wants and needs. The cost of one size fits all is too high.

I think a 2010 PC is going to start creaking in the near future anyway...

But you could always shoot Mraw/Sraw on a higher res sensor, if you're concerned about memory and bandwidth?

Never said a 2010 PC.
Six-core Mac Pro Tower

mRAW would be significantly less than existing sensors - generally about half the native megapixels. Again, paying for more than necessary. I'm sure someone out there thinks the 5Ds is not enough at 50MP and wants 80MP or 100MP. Great for them, but I really do feel going beyond 24MP is overkill for what many people need.

A 2010 Mac Pro is easily capable of working with massive amounts of 5DS files, it is a complete non issue.

If you are getting any delay in working then I'd look towards a preferences issue in your editing program and HD allocation. It takes a lot of tinkering to optimise LR and PS to work at their best for any individual work style, but it is time very well spent.

 

[drjlo]

I'm pretty sure at 28 MP's you should be able to get a bit more than what you get with the 5d3).

As I hold my almost 4-year-old 5D3, I sure hope we can expect more from Canon than "a bit more" from 5D4!!

 

[Takingshots]

Small window of opportunity for CAnon to catch up. If they launch something that is mediocre, fail to grab the accolade from peers and professionals, they could have people thinking too long to wait for another development.
Form factor is critical to consider with ageing population who has the money to travel and spend of a camera that is small all purpose camera. What is out there(SonyA7rii/A7sii) they will want to compare this new Canon to see if it up to specs or better ! Again if you snooze you will lose it. I am holding off to buy the Sony A7rii to see if better price in 2016 and at the same time I will wait for Canon to announce their new development. I can wait until the end of next year... Might jump in if the price of Sony is right and any hiccup in the field(early consumers who bgt it) will finalize my decision....

 

[privatebydesign]

Small window of opportunity for CAnon to catch up.

Get real, the 5D mkIII is probably one of the, if not the, best selling FF DSLR ever. How is that playing catch up?

 

[Loswr]

Small window of opportunity for CAnon to catch up.

Get real, the 5D mkIII is probably one of the, if not the, best selling FF DSLR ever. How is that playing catch up?

Because Sony has more low ISO DR. DRrrrrrrrrr.

 

[scyrene]

Form factor is critical to consider with ageing population who has the money to travel and spend of a camera that is small all purpose camera.

While this may be true in general, the 5D series is not a small all-purpose camera for newbies. It's a general-purpose full frame DSLR for professionals and monied enthusiasts. Seniors wanting a small, light camera for travel have no shortage of options; the 5D is not one, and never will be.

 

[clarksbrother]

Here's why the 5D4 has to have 4K video, at least for me:

I have to travel as light as possible, and cover both video and photography, so a lot of gear is required. I'd really like a combo of a 5D4, C100 III, and a XF200. But they all have to match up to 4K video, and at least one of them has to offer high frame rate for slomo. It would be sooo much nicer to have all of this provided in the Canon environment to match the majority of my lenses, and also because I love Canon color and Canon's ergonomics.

But Sony is offering the FS5 now. And Sony appears to be going gang busters to give bang-for-your-buck in video.

Down deep, I am rooting for Canon to blow me away. But Sony is winning.

+1 on pretty much everything you said (speaking for myself anyways). It felt like blasphemy when I started using it, but I'd highly recommend checking out the Panasonic GH4. You can get up to 96fps 1080p with high bitrate encoding, and 4K in 24 or 30p. ALL of which available with V-Log color encoding so you can do some nice color grading later. It is M4/3 so if you're expecting the same level of sensitivity light wise, don't. It's a compromise. BUT, with a metabones speedbooster, it is a workable if not perfect all-in-one solution.

 

[nehemiah]

I estimate that I've shot about 12 minutes of video on my 5D3, and I bought it right at release paying $3499.

Of the 12 minutes, all of it were accidental video because accidentally the toggle switch went left to the video option while I was unaware. To me, having video is not jut neutral -- it is a negative because of things like this wasting battery, wondering why the still camera function is behaving in a weird manner, etc. That would be just multiplied by also having a 4K option.

I would have paid $3599 for a 5D3 version that had no option for video.

 

[AvTvM]

Small window of opportunity for CAnon to catch up.

Get real, the 5D mkIII is probably one of the, if not the, best selling FF DSLR ever. How is that playing catch up?

5D III was the only "universally useful and still affordable" Canon DSLR. (6D too crippled, 1D-X too big and expensive), Nikon DSLRs clearly better (D800, D810 and D750), but system switch is a huge move for anybody with (lots of) EF glass (and Nikon is clearly inferior in lenses) and/or more than 1 camera body. Sony A7 first gen was an "untested system with few lenses and obvious teething problems". That has changed with Mk. II generation of Sony A7 series. Also, more 4k alternatives for video-leaning users became available. And Fuji made good progress with their much smaller&lighter X-MILC system.

Ever since, Canon has been and is loosing customers, including many valuable enthusiasts and semi-pro 5D1, 2 and 3 users who also bought a good deal of all EF L glass ever sold and speedlites (first 580's then a new full set of 600's).

A lot of these have either added a Sony or are in the process of switching - still holding on to their EF lenses, as adapting got better and better. Others who wanted smaller/lighter gear (including aging, health issues, but affluent segment) have "downsized" and gone to Fuji, others did not yet, because they still prefer FF over APS-C.

A lot of people on the fence right now. Willing to give Canon one more chance to finally catch up to best in class in 5D category: universal, highly capable, reliable FF camera system, not too big, not excessively expensive). Another minor ho-hum facelift like the one from 5D2 to 5D 3 will not be enough for Canon now to keep these clients. There are more alternatives this time round. Sony is for real.

 

[tcmatthews]

How many people who originally bought a 5D II for video have already gone to Sony or Panasonic GH4? I don't know but I would assume all those that could not afford to buy Canon's cinema line. I think that not including 4K video on the 5D Mark IV would be a mistake from a marketing point of view. Over the approximate 3-4 year period it will be sold 4k will most likely be added to all cameras. Not that many in the market to buy a 5DIV will ever use it for video.

The only exception is if they go to higher MP high speed with the 5D IV and at the same time release a low light lower MP video oriented 6D II that would shut up the haters.

But what do I know. My Sony 7II is now my primary camera. The firmware update if fantastic, and there is no real reason not use my Canon lenses on it. But I am not a pro.

 

[pedro]

I estimate that I've shot about 12 minutes of video on my 5D3, and I bought it right at release paying $3499.

Of the 12 minutes, all of it were accidental video because accidentally the toggle switch went left to the video option while I was unaware. To me, having video is not jut neutral -- it is a negative because of things like this wasting battery, wondering why the still camera function is behaving in a weird manner, etc. That would be just multiplied by also having a 4K option.

I would have paid $3599 for a 5D3 version that had no option for video.

same here, although I had less then two minutes on my 5D3 who got stolen in an assault this summer...insurance covered it completely. ;-) good one!

 

[NorBro]

If it wasn't for the video capability, these cameras would not be as popular as they are today. Independent filmmakers and videographers accidentally discovering the power of the 5D Mark II gave it new life.

Yes, you do need video. And yes, it needs to be 4K.

I would pay for a model that strictly has video features and no stills. Of course I would like to have stills, but Canon truly needs a great successor to the 1DC.

There are people who are just as passionate about video as many of you are about your stills.

 

[AvTvM]

If it wasn't for the video capability, these cameras would not be as popular as they are today. Independent filmmakers and videographers accidentally discovering the power of the 5D Mark II gave it new life.

Yes, you do need video. And yes, it needs to be 4K.

I would pay for a model that strictly has video features and no stills. Of course I would like to have stills, but Canon truly needs a great successor to the 1DC.

There are people who are just as passionate about video as many of you are about your stills.

That's why I and many other Canon (stills) users around th world would like to see 2 models (like 1D-X vs. 1Dc) for the 5D line:
* 5D IV ... focused on stills, no video capture, no video out, no microphones, no earphone jack, no video menus, no "Record Video" switch or button - but with LiveView.
* 5Dv ... video-focused model (similar to 1Dc or like Sony A7S I) with all 4k bells and whistles on it

That way, it would also become very evident, how little interest there really is for video-DLSRs ... when you have to pay for it, rather than getting (4k) video as a freebie on the back of stils users.