Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Talk [CR2]
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+1, thank you Don for working that out.Don Haines said:
When the 5D3 came out I was planning to stay with my 5D2 because it was such a bad camera.
When I held the 5D3 in my hands I realized how much worse this one was so I instantly had to downgrade.
And the image quality really su**s so much it squeezes out the best photographer in me to make the pictures look decent at least.
For all pros the IQ is the absolute turn down so no one did or would ever use the 5D3.
Hopefully the 5D4 will become better so I don't need to downgrade furthermore...
[/sarc mode]
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5D3 is not a bad camera by all means and overall I do like shooting with it - as long as I don't take into consideration (inherent) disadvantages of mirrorslappers vs. mirrorless for my usage scenarios.
But I will repeat, even if it causes considerable pain to many a fellow Canonite here ... that 5D 3 is clearly sub-par both in performance and in value compared to direct competitor products (Nikon D810, D750). Not just for "paper specs", but were it counts in real life: sensor performance/IQ, AF-performance, firmware (just to mention Auto-ISO implementation).
I am convinced that a minor upgrade will not suffice this time. 5D IV with a few more MPs, a tiny little bit better sensor IQ (low-ISO DR, Hi-ISO noise), a tiny bit better AF performance and MAYBE
visible/lit active AF points also in Servo-AF ... makes little sense. Yes, it will still be bought - but only by the ever shrinking segment of Canon customers who are or feel "locked-in" - due to EF glass, speedlites etc. It will not win what Canon really needs: additional, new customers. Those moving up from smartphones, conmpacts, or ageing APS-C cameras.
But I will repeat, even if it causes considerable pain to many a fellow Canonite here ... that 5D 3 is clearly sub-par both in performance and in value compared to direct competitor products (Nikon D810, D750). Not just for "paper specs", but were it counts in real life: sensor performance/IQ, AF-performance, firmware (just to mention Auto-ISO implementation).
I am convinced that a minor upgrade will not suffice this time. 5D IV with a few more MPs, a tiny little bit better sensor IQ (low-ISO DR, Hi-ISO noise), a tiny bit better AF performance and MAYBE
visible/lit active AF points also in Servo-AF ... makes little sense. Yes, it will still be bought - but only by the ever shrinking segment of Canon customers who are or feel "locked-in" - due to EF glass, speedlites etc. It will not win what Canon really needs: additional, new customers. Those moving up from smartphones, conmpacts, or ageing APS-C cameras.
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Go Wild said:Hello to everyone. I´m not trying to make a point in this reply, but just give you my humild opinion. I own a 5D markIII and i use it a lot, and i mean...a lot! I´m a professional photographer, mostly wildlife photographer, but i also have to do some marriage services, product photography and comercial (mostly for websites, not big prints). Well, like we use to say...Europe is in crysis and we just need to make what money want´s you to make. This is just important to tell you that I trully need a super versatile camera, although, i have a Canon 7D markII for 70% of the wildlife work, but when light come down, 5D is the answer.
And what a superb peace of machine the MkIII is...!! Very often i push her to the limits and never, ever makes me feel bad , or failed. Ever. So when i read someone say that is going to leave DSLR and 5D markIII for a mirrorless....I just think it is foolish...you´re about to switch from a camera that is remarcable confort in hands, to a camera that feels weird in the hands (Sony mirorless). You switch from a camera that gives you about 800 shots/900 in batery life, for a camera that gives you about 200 shots! Really?? Do you imagine taking pictures in a wedding with this? I sooht easily about 1500 shots in a wedding. Thats what? 7 batterys? Reaally? No..not for me! You switch from a camera tha have a remarcable AF sistem for one camera that have a poor af sistem? Then if you gor for the new A7R II We´re talking of 4000€, and the 5D markIII is selling at 2500€. (Prices in euros sorry.)
And for what? Because someone say to you that Sony is better in DR? Because it records in 4K?
Just in minor situations DR of Canon get´s me concerned....but believe me, you get the shot well done, you get that shot, and no one really be concerned in DR!
Despite what i said, i really like that the new MkIV would give some good improvement in DR. If it makes me loose my mind? Hell no!
About the video....well....everybody has a point here...It would do no harm if 4K is there...but i think stills photographers do not care if it isn´t, because the full HD wiil do good for their purposes of some pontual films. If they can make a cheaper machine without the 4k, please Canon, leave 4K behind!! If Canon can make more imporvements on Stills, please, leave 4K behind. If i want a camera to film 4K i definitly have a lot of options in the market. People always seek for something that gives you all for the small price.
Well, but for me no issue in this. Photography cameras ARE for Photography. Video cameras, ARE for video. Period. Buy a 5d markIII and a Sony A7S, or a Canon C300. Too expensive? Well...you have to decide whats important to you.
What i would live to see in new camera:
- Built in timelapse/intervalometer (like 7D markII ou 5D S)
- Dinamic range improvement (Nikon and Sony are better - 5DS is reaally better and aproaches Nikon and Sony)
- Buffer capability improved. (better Raw recording preformance)
- More MP´s - About 30 MPs (this one is related to the nex one)
- Improvement in High ISO capability - Ok, i ask for more MP´s so in theory, more MP´s less high iso performance. (Well, if Nikon has it in the Nikon D810 with 36 mp´s why can´t we have it in Canon!
- Better info sistem in viewfinder.
- Focus peaking - Come on Canon, you can do this in your machines with no problem!!
- Slightly better AF performance in cross type af points
- Improvement in digic processor. - Just for give even more fast AF
- Well...surprise me and I´ll buy the machine!!
Sorry for some errors in writting!!
Get ready to buy. Most of your wishes will come true.
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Hi AvTvM!
I dont consider myself a "Canonite", as you can read I've also been using other equipment, including "the dark side"
And I am still comparing products from other companies with the ones from Canon.
In my - different - opinion I don't see the D810 in the same market segment as the 5D3 and it never came cross my mind to replace a 5D3 by a D800 or D810. And it took Nikon about three - almost four - years to deliver the D750 that really struggled to get past the 5D3, except for the sensor IQ where I agree that at low ISO they're ahead.
So I feel no pain and please don't argue that Canon marketing or this forum had deadened my senses.
Of course I agree that a big improvement would be best for the 5D4. Otherwise I'd be waiting for a 5D5 because I am soooo fine with the 5D3 that I don't even think about a change.
I dont consider myself a "Canonite", as you can read I've also been using other equipment, including "the dark side"
And I am still comparing products from other companies with the ones from Canon.
It seems the only ones feeling pain are the ones that are not able to persuade me and others from their opinion (either right or wrong). You have yours I have mine.AvTvM said:
In my - different - opinion I don't see the D810 in the same market segment as the 5D3 and it never came cross my mind to replace a 5D3 by a D800 or D810. And it took Nikon about three - almost four - years to deliver the D750 that really struggled to get past the 5D3, except for the sensor IQ where I agree that at low ISO they're ahead.
So I feel no pain and please don't argue that Canon marketing or this forum had deadened my senses.
Of course I agree that a big improvement would be best for the 5D4. Otherwise I'd be waiting for a 5D5 because I am soooo fine with the 5D3 that I don't even think about a change.
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Canon Rumors said:
Here is the current progression of when the 5DIV is expected, as collected over the past several months on Canon Rumors:
Oct - Dec 2015
Aug / Sept 2015
Fall 2015
Late summer 2015
Before April 2016
Spring 2016
We'll nail it one of these times!
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AvTvM said:5D3 is not a bad camera by all means and overall I do like shooting with it - as long as I don't take into consideration (inherent) disadvantages of mirrorslappers vs. mirrorless for my usage scenarios.
But I will repeat, even if it causes considerable pain to many a fellow Canonite here ... that 5D 3 is clearly sub-par both in performance and in value compared to direct competitor products (Nikon D810, D750). Not just for "paper specs", but were it counts in real life: sensor performance/IQ, AF-performance, firmware (just to mention Auto-ISO implementation).
I am convinced that a minor upgrade will not suffice this time. 5D IV with a few more MPs, a tiny little bit better sensor IQ (low-ISO DR, Hi-ISO noise), a tiny bit better AF performance and MAYBE
Interesting that you include in your "real life" argument, AF. It's interesting because the 5D3 has better AF than the D8x0 and arguably better than the D750, at least, according to the specs. Does Nikon even have dual cross type AF sensors? And at high ISO noise (6400), the 5D3 sensor is less noisy than the D800's; all 3 of them.
In other words we're back to that low ISO DR "spec" (singular). I'm looking at AF, lens selection, CPS service, speed lite system, high ISO noise. That's why Canon is on top. They pretty much trounce the other competitors in everything except low ISO DR which I agree to some is important.
And last but not least, the AF improvements from the 5D2 to the 5D3 were very, very significant and I still can't figure out why you think the progression from the 5D2 to the 5D3 was minor. Still haven't addressed that point. In fact, you seemed to have blatantly ignored it in your post. Since we all know the progressions from the 5D to the 5D2 to the 5D3 were in fact each very substantial, there is no reason to think the 5D3 to the 5D4 won't be either.
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clarksbrother said:
Enjoy your Panasonic VIDEO equipment. This STILL photographer couldn't care less about shooting video. All I want is an evolution of what is a great still camera. And like all things, it depends on who you hang around. Seen plenty of 5Ds, but never seen one being used to shoot video. 50 percent? Other than goofing around, I'll bet the serious use of video on these things is more like ten percent at best. If Canon leaves out 4k, it's for a reason - like maybe they want to sell dedicated video equipment. Simple business decision.
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ignomini said:
+1
Or because market research actually indicates that 4k video is less of a factor. Who knows.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
bdunbar79 said:
...Or, because Canon decided too many compromises would need to be made to offer 4K video and a top notch affordable general purpose pro body.
...Or, maybe the source of the rumor is just wrong.
Indeed. Who does know? Certainly no one on this forum.
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As a landscape shooter, I found the image quality of the 5D2 to be just awful. The red channel was a disaster on that camera. The 5D3 wasn't as good as the 6D, but still much better than the 5D2, IMO. Even my Rebel T1i is better than the 5D2 regarding red channel quality. I went through 3 copies of the 5D2 and all the same. Also, the shutter noise sounded like a mouse being crushed to death with every shutter click on the 5D2. Really not cool especially when shooting quiet events.
Isn't the 5D3 missing a proper servo tracking AF illumination and linked metering? In that regard, the NIkon AF system is better, isn't it? I've heard nothing but amazing things about the D750 and D810. It was the D800 AF that was a mess.
Isn't the 5D3 missing a proper servo tracking AF illumination and linked metering? In that regard, the NIkon AF system is better, isn't it? I've heard nothing but amazing things about the D750 and D810. It was the D800 AF that was a mess.
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PhotographyFirst said:
Except those things have absolutely nothing to do with the accuracy and precision of the AF system. So no, they do not have better AF systems.
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Just finished up processing some images of a politician and his family for Christmas which I shot on my 5D3 with two speed lights in their home. I controlled the lighting, kept it very safe and low contrast, and was able to get the entire shoot setup, shot, and all the gear out the door in 42 minutes and the files are freaking awesome.
There is zero need for improvement on any level for this kind of shooting with the 5D3 it is simply perfect for the job.
If I had been shooting with a D810 I may have let a bit more contrast in on my lighting, but probably not because keeping the shoot speedy was important. The more you use contrast in your lighting of a group the more potential there is for problems to happen on location.
I'm sharing this because the limitations of the 5D3 are really only limitations if you don't shoot correctly. If you know the camera and use it accordingly the results will be stunning. If you're shooting in very low light you need to over expose more than you would need to with a Nikon in order to preserve DR and lower noise. Is this a problem once you know it? Only in the most extreme situations and in those situations the D810 wouldn't be any good either.
What about resolution? Fill the frame.
I love my 5D3.
The only reason why I push so hard for Canon to do a major upgrade is because they can, and not to is just holding back and trying to create perceived extra value in their higher products. I'll be buying the best solution for me next year, whether that is a Nikon, a Sony, or the 5DIV... but those crapping on the 5D3 like it is a subpar product... LOL!!!
I had my choice for the D800 or the Canon 5D3 4 years ago. I was in a situation where I was able to pick either system at about equal cost. Not only did the 5D3 feel better in my hands it performed better while I shot it. Perhaps not when shooting a test pattern, but when I was using it to photograph real people with my hands on the camera.
Could it have been better? Yes. Most obviously yes. Does it suck because it wasn't as technically good on a spec sheet as the D800 and now D810? No. Stop being silly.
There is zero need for improvement on any level for this kind of shooting with the 5D3 it is simply perfect for the job.
If I had been shooting with a D810 I may have let a bit more contrast in on my lighting, but probably not because keeping the shoot speedy was important. The more you use contrast in your lighting of a group the more potential there is for problems to happen on location.
I'm sharing this because the limitations of the 5D3 are really only limitations if you don't shoot correctly. If you know the camera and use it accordingly the results will be stunning. If you're shooting in very low light you need to over expose more than you would need to with a Nikon in order to preserve DR and lower noise. Is this a problem once you know it? Only in the most extreme situations and in those situations the D810 wouldn't be any good either.
What about resolution? Fill the frame.
I love my 5D3.
The only reason why I push so hard for Canon to do a major upgrade is because they can, and not to is just holding back and trying to create perceived extra value in their higher products. I'll be buying the best solution for me next year, whether that is a Nikon, a Sony, or the 5DIV... but those crapping on the 5D3 like it is a subpar product... LOL!!!
I had my choice for the D800 or the Canon 5D3 4 years ago. I was in a situation where I was able to pick either system at about equal cost. Not only did the 5D3 feel better in my hands it performed better while I shot it. Perhaps not when shooting a test pattern, but when I was using it to photograph real people with my hands on the camera.
Could it have been better? Yes. Most obviously yes. Does it suck because it wasn't as technically good on a spec sheet as the D800 and now D810? No. Stop being silly.
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kevl said:
You clearly don't understand reality. The spec sheets and test patterns are the most critical factor for proper photography but even moreso is the Dynamic Range from ISO 100-400. You have to evolve to be more like me. I'm a guy who owns a 5D3 and understands what a total POS it is. In fact it was such a POS that I went and pre-ordered a 5DSR, which is an even bigger POS. A high Mega-Pixel POS. The stupid thing STILL has a mirror in it for God's sake. But I figured it was high time to punish myself with more crap-tastic gear. Don't worry, you'll figure it out sooner or later. Proper photographic technique and acquired skill sets are for iPhone amateurs. Real pros need cameras they can completely clown-screw a shot on (ALL THE TIME apparently) and recover it 4 stops in post with the lenscap on.
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One correction though, screen LCD resolution is quoted in kilodots not kilopixel. A pixel is made up of at least three dots. R,G,B.PureClassA said:
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well, i call a spade a spade and an AF system to me is "better" if it helps photographers getting a higher percentage of perfectly focussed shots ... in all sorts of situations and conditions. Being able to see in the viewfinder, whether/which AF point/s are active and on the subject is relevant to me, even if you happen to think otherwise.
bdunbar79 said:
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LoL, what?bdunbar79 said:
That's quite a silly stretch to discredit the advantages of the features.
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PhotographyFirst said:LoL, what?bdunbar79 said:
That's quite a silly stretch to discredit the advantages of the features.
Who cares if the points are illuminated or the spot-metering is linked if the shots are OOF, or you can't track a player on a dimly lit field jumping over another player? I'd rather get the shot, wouldn't you? So yes, speaking strictly from the AF system, it's discredited. I get paid by the photo.
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