Canon EOS 5D X Speculation

[D_Rochat]

They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

Killing off the APS-C 7D wouldn't be the end of the APS-C in general. As I stated earlier, they could very well gear the xxD Prosumer line towards the APS-C crowd, with improvements. The 7D is more of a Prosumer body anyways IMO. Rebadge and continue to sell.

EDIT - Unless you are only obsessed with owning a xD body, it makes no difference. If having a xD body is your only concern, your priorities are off. *pulling out the Smite shield*

 

[kapanak]

How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

 

[D_Rochat]

It's just a smaller sensor.

My bad. msowsun is right. "the rear element of the lens (EF-S) is closer to the image sensor than on regular 35 mm SLR cameras"

 

[aeturnum]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:

• The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
• The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
• The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
• The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

 

[Angryoak]

What would be great is if they combined the 7d & 5D and produced a FF camera that was capable of taking EF-S lenses (sorta like nikons dx mode).

 

[msowsun]

EF-S lenses are short back focus and will hit the mirror in most cases. Nikon doesn't have that problem apparently.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

Killing off the APS-C 7D wouldn't be the end of the APS-C in general. As I stated earlier, they could very well gear the xxD Prosumer line towards the APS-C crowd, with improvements. The 7D is more of a Prosumer body anyways IMO. Rebadge and continue to sell.

EDIT - Unless you are only obsessed with owning a xD body, it makes no difference. If having a xD body is your only concern, your priorities are off. *pulling out the Smite shield*

True, but marketing does tend to worry about the xD to xxD status symbol stuff. Maybe they jump it to 80D to make up for that. ;D

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

No it can't change lens to sensor distance. All it does is like mask off the outer parts of a FF sensor. It just changes the FOV you get. You don't get any extra detail on distant objects compared to using the same lens on a FF camera of the same photosite density (although they often use same total MP on APS-C and FF and thus APS-C often has more photosite density).

Well EF-S can go closer, but they would smack FF mirror, plus they still deliver the same focal length equivalent they don't get a 1.6x focal length boost when it comes to putting extra detail on a distance subject.

 

[KyleSTL]

Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)? Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

 

[kapanak]

Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)? Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

Why would that happen? A FF version of the current 7D sensor would be a around ... 29MP?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:

• The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
• The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
• The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
• The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

I use a 7D and wouls seriously hate to see Canon ruin it by mixing it with the 5d. The arguments you post there about sports shooters could just crop completely don't work. For sports and worse still bird photography, the loss of focal length by going to FF makes the lenses shorter! This is a horrible idea for Canon, and one they hopefully will not embrace, because it causes the small birds to become much smaller indeed.

Which is why I offered the on-sensor cropping idea ... If the FF sensor crops to 1.6X, then both camps are happy, except with regards to frames per second.

 

[moreorless]

I wouldnt be supprized if there was a general shift upwards in AF performance of all of Canon's lines this generation given that there previous advanatge in sensor performance may not be there.

650D gets 60D AF

70D gets 7D AF

7D gets new system between the old and 1D

5D mk3/X gets FF equivilent of 7D

 

[Blaze]

Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)? Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

Why would that happen? A FF version of the current 7D sensor would be a around ... 29MP?

No. The linear crop factor is 1.6x. You have to account for both horizontal and vertical increase in size.
18.1 MP APS-C scaled up to a full frame sensor is 18.1 MP * 1.6 * 1.6 = 46.3 MP.

 

[briansquibb]

Perhaps Canon are going to do a Nikon - release a ff with APS-C compatibility

APS-C sensors will then be consigned to P&S/compacts like the other manufacturers are doing.

 

[Gcon]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:

• The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
• The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
• The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
• The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

I like what you did there with that break-down. I think Canon made a big mistake in muddying their product lines by giving a crop sensor a xD designation. Really only FF sensors should have the xD designation.

I predict that that the 5Dx will be a merging of full-frame 5DmarkII, with the best features of the 7D.

So what happens to the 7D2 then? I don't really care as I won't buy one, but they could come out with a kick-ass 70D, and bring things in line with what you said.

For all those people who want a crop sensor for "reach" I'm not overly convinced by that argument. You pack all those photosites so close together and yes you get more perceived reach, but the noise increases too. If ISO is high enough, I believe it's better to crop in Photoshop a full frame image. Really it depends on the ISO - a crop sensor is better for reach at lower ISO, but IMHO a crop of a full frame image is better at higher ISO.

In any case - can't wait for Feb!!

 

[Britman]

One thing people seems to forget and that the price range. If the 7D & 5D merged it would cost around £2,000 that's one hell of a jump from the 60D @ £700. At present the 7D fill the price gape between the 60D & 5D.

 

[Rank_90]

One thing people seems to forget and that the price range. If the 7D & 5D merged it would cost around £2,000 that's one hell of a jump from the 60D @ £700. At present the 7D fill the price gape between the 60D & 5D.

For me I feel that the 7D is too young to be replaced with a Mrk II. I think Canon know that sales of the 7D are doing the job too so why replace it. The 5D Mrk II is in need of an upgrade for loads of reasons. So for me the 7D Mrk II is not a likely outcome in my opinion. What we are looking at here I'm 99.9% sure is the 5D Mrk III. Just all in my opinion.

 

[NormanBates]

"The pictures taken for this leak are pretty extraordinary compared to the stuff we’ve seen in the past"

as you'd expect: this time they're testing the camera in a place where the would-be paparazzi have some very long lenses mounted on their cameras

 

[NotABunny]

How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

It is due to the fact that the pixel density is higher. That is, if you get a shot with both FF and APSC (everything else being equal), you get more cropping capabilities with the APSC. The FF would need to have 2.56 times more pixels in order to provide the same cropping capabilities.

The reverse is that the pixels get progressively worse looking (because they get smaller). Ultimately, you get the look of compact cameras (at least if you get a pixel density of around 200...300 MP FF-equivalent).

 

[MagnusF]

Oh man, i just sold my 7D to buy the 5D mark ii + 24-105 for $2799.

The offer ends feb 7th, hmm where have i heard that date before?

Now i cant decide if i should get it or wait...

 

[bycostello]

5DX would seem in keeping with the other stuff being released...