Canon EOS 6D Mark II Announcement Coming in July [CR2]

[wildwalker]

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.

(for the 5DMk4 I think the features were weak, especially on video on release. and the price was too high compared to previous 5DMkx bodies).

If the 6DMk2 has the DPAF, and a better focussing system (which lets be honest, it would have to have) then I think I will buy one of these. I use the 5DMk2 currently, and an loking for better focussing performance over the 5DMk2, along with a big bump in dynamic range (I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

Cheers all.
Alan.

 

[Sporgon]

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
(I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

I think that if you were disappointed with the 5DIV you're a hard man to please

 

[Mikehit]

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.

(for the 5DMk4 I think the features were weak, especially on video on release. and the price was too high compared to previous 5DMkx bodies).

If the 6DMk2 has the DPAF, and a better focussing system (which lets be honest, it would have to have) then I think I will buy one of these. I use the 5DMk2 currently, and an loking for better focussing performance over the 5DMk2, along with a big bump in dynamic range (I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

Cheers all.
Alan.

The release price of the 5DIV is the same as the 5DIII was. So what was 'expensive' about it?
I would be very surprised if the 6D2 did not have a better AF system than the 5D2, given advances in the meantime (even the 80D has a better AF than the 5D2). But 3 stops dynamic range? I think you being very optimistic.

 

[Sabaki]

Is there any major difference between DIGIC 5 and DIGIC 7 and, if so, does it matter? I'm on the verge of everything "crop" selling on ebay.

New Digic processors get more power efficient as feature size is reduced, so you get more computing power per watt. This means that complex calculations needed for dual Pixel technology or higher MP sensors can be accomplished without need for a new larger battery.

So, a Digic 7+ compared to a 5+ can do more things.

As somebody who has a zero engineering background, does the improved power efficiency translate to lower noise output too?

As a sidebar, I was asked images taken on a 5D original would compare to an 80D and 5Div and I wasn't quite sure on how to answer.

 

[Chaitanya]

Is there any major difference between DIGIC 5 and DIGIC 7 and, if so, does it matter? I'm on the verge of everything "crop" selling on ebay.

New Digic processors get more power efficient as feature size is reduced, so you get more computing power per watt. This means that complex calculations needed for dual Pixel technology or higher MP sensors can be accomplished without need for a new larger battery.

So, a Digic 7+ compared to a 5+ can do more things.

Also with faster and newer processors new improved image processing algorithm can be implemented. Though most of the times faster CPUs do help Jpeg and video shooters rathern than RAW shooters.

With nearly a 5 year life cycle, 6D mark II better be a impressive upgrade and not another gimped Canon upgrade.

 

[Mikehit]

As somebody who has a zero engineering background, does the improved power efficiency translate to lower noise output too?

As a sidebar, I was asked images taken on a 5D original would compare to an 80D and 5Div and I wasn't quite sure on how to answer.

Interesting question on the power efficiency and noise. I assume power efficiency of the processor will have some impact, but given that noise comes from different sources I am not sure how noticeable the processor efficiency would be. I suspect that like so many things in electronics and computing, get a better processor to do something quicker and the first thing they do is give it more tasks to do. Back to square one.

The original 5D still turns out some great images but it depends on what you want to do. Portraits and controlled lighting the original 5D will be almost as good as anything available now. If you need it high ISO (1600 and above), or need for efficient AF (wildlife, sports) then give me the 80D any day.
Print at 20"x30" - the 5DIV will be better, and probably the 80D as well.

When the 7D came out, I saw a comparison shot of the 7D with the 5D2 that (to me) demonstrated that with good lighting a processing, you could not tell the difference between the two at prints below 20". I saw a similar comparison between the 5Diii and the 7D2. There are some things that FF cameras are better at, but it is not universal.

 

[transpo1]

So for video specs, I'm guessing-

• less of a crop in 4K than the 5DIV (as MP will be less)
• and no C-Log (obviously)

Is that the consensus?

 

[ScottyP]

I just hope 6d2 doesn't go the way 5d4 (and 5d3) went, with black autofocus points rather than red illuminated af points. I nearly bought a 5d4 over the weekend but even in the mostly well-lit B&H store I lost track of the AF points I was selecting. I decided to wait for the 6d2 and see if it will have around 45 or so af points, and if they will be illuminated. In that case I'm a buyer.

 

[vangelismm]

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.

(for the 5DMk4 I think the features were weak, especially on video on release. and the price was too high compared to previous 5DMkx bodies).

If the 6DMk2 has the DPAF, and a better focussing system (which lets be honest, it would have to have) then I think I will buy one of these. I use the 5DMk2 currently, and an loking for better focussing performance over the 5DMk2, along with a big bump in dynamic range (I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

Cheers all.
Alan.

The release price of the 5DIV is the same as the 5DIII was. So what was 'expensive' about it?
I would be very surprised if the 6D2 did not have a better AF system than the 5D2, given advances in the meantime (even the 80D has a better AF than the 5D2). But 3 stops dynamic range? I think you being very optimistic.

Almost every Rebel and the XXD line, from the time of 5D mk II, have better AF!
But lets hope for 9 cross points.

 

[rfdesigner]

As somebody who has a zero engineering background, does the improved power efficiency translate to lower noise output too?

As a sidebar, I was asked images taken on a 5D original would compare to an 80D and 5Div and I wasn't quite sure on how to answer.

Power efficiency is usually BAD for noise.

HOWEVER.

GPS is GOOD for noise.

For reference I design electronics, usually radio stuff, and do a lot of electro-magnetic-compatibility.. or EMC.

GPS is good as it is so sensitive to noise in it's available radio bands that everything else must be quiet otherwise it stops working. I strongly believe this is why the 6D (mk1) was the best of the twin chip (sensor + ADC) cameras Canon has built when it comes to banding.

With the new Sensor and ADC on one chip, everyone get's better/zero banding because the most sensitive bit is a couple of orders of magnitude smaller.

Efficiency often means better DC-DC converters.. and those things are HORRIBLE for noise, Good DC-DC converters use screening cans, EMC filters etc.. this makes them bigger.
Alternatively if the load reduces then things will get quieter.. how much is primarily dependant on how well made the device is when it comes to EMC... so having a super sensitive gizmo on board is a plus.

Regarding normal readout noise, we are getting very close to the limits of electronic readout. The 6D was around 1.5e readout noise (at high ISO).. even if you reduced that to zero, when you image an object producing say 9e signal per pixel, your noise will still be 3e ( square-root of signal ).

To improve low light ability you really need to capture more photons, and that either means back illumination (photons are usually detected below the chips metalwork, illuminating from the back means the metalwork doesn't block the light, however you need to backthin the silicon and it's oh so easy to break it when you backgrind)

Alternatively you do away with the bayer matrix and split the lights colour some other way, such as Foveon or triple sensor and dichroic filters.

Sony went back illuminated recently, at some point Canon will probably do the same (they do have the technology). Though I'd be surprised to see that on a 6 series camera first.

 

[K]

The rumor of an announcement is a good thing. Some sites have been speculating that the 6D2 will never happen. This was floated a while back. It could be that Canon is getting better internal controls of their information, and thus rumors are getting harder to come by, and silence is interpreted as "not happening" ...?

As far as rumored specs - I believe all of it except for 2 things both happening at the same time.

1. 45pt AF system
2. Dual Card Slots

There is a decent chance we get one of those, but doubtful we get both. Canon, as always - as is their character, will put some big let-down absence of feature in there.

I'm thinking we get either a 19pt system or a new system with 2 slots. Or the 45pt system with 1 slot.

The idea will be, which will harm the 5D4 the least.

In this day and age, Canon should give both. Being that the D750 from Nikon is 2-slot, 24mp, tilt screen and 51pt AF all for $1500. But we know that's not how Canon operates.

19pt AF is crappy by today's standards and would be a serious downgrade from the 5D4 for anyone wanting to do events. So having 2 slots, but that AF is going to suck.

However, for many years photogs have done great work with that system and worse. There's still thousands of focus and recomposers out there. So data redundancy and safety is very nice to have. Remember, the 6D is all about getting FF on the cheap. The 6D2, even with less megapixels stands to have about the same practical IQ as the 5D4, maybe better.

So they might opt instead for a 45pt AF system, but then squash any aspirations for serious pro-use by crippling it with one slot. I think this is far more likely of the two. Only thing is, there's a lot of people out there that just don't care and risk doing jobs with 1 card. Having FF and 45pt system is going to be pretty strong combo for work and unless you need some specific feature of the 5D4, why buy it? And therein lies the reason why the 6D2 must be crippled in some way.

It comes down to which lack of feature will deter pro use and protect the 5D4 the most. Heck, it could even be both. 19pt and 1 slot. That would be very shameful though. That would firmly place the 6D2 as 'all you're getting is a FF sensor' camera. At that point, I cannot see anyone with any common sense buying a 6D2 as an entry level FF over the Nikon D750. Nikon glass is good enough and close enough in price. Significantly better value, more feature rich. No comparison. Besides, while Canon glass is that great - to get that greatness is $1500 - $2000 per lens. People buying a few lenses of that level aren't going to restrict themselves to a 6D2 anyway. I'd bet most 6D owners might have one or two L, and the rest medium lenses. Or just medium grade glass. Much the same with the Nikon side. These are people not looking to spend $10,000 on a system. Thus, they are going to want a feature rich body that offers big value.

I don't know how 5D4 sales have been, but it seems to me the buzz and hype over it is dramatically less than the 5D3 was when it came out and when it was in its heyday. Yes, the market is in a decline overall. And there's more competition now. But still, the 5D4 isn't getting this type of industry wide praise the 5D3 was as king of the hill. The must have, do-all FF beast.


As for the 7D3, I really think Canon should have abandoned their 5 year cycle on this one - and offered up a quicker refresh. Basically, keep the camera exactly the same except - build in the wifi, and update the sensor to the newer on-chip ADC that have much better Dynamic Range like the 80D. Perhaps dump the AA filter too. A huge perk would be going to 11fps, but not needed. A sensor update alone would be very welcome and all that is necessary.

If they are going to wait another 2 years to update this thing, they might as well make it their debut for a full-read global shutter type sensor like the Sony A9. That way they can up the FPS dramatically, and offer something new and revolutionary. They have patents in the works....so at some point this should surface. Maybe just in their mirrorless cameras....But think about how far behind the 7D3 will be in 2 years from now when all it gets is a sensor that is maybe the equal of Sony/Nikon's 24mp APS-C from 2015 era....that would be sad.

It would also be sad for Sony/Nikon, because they have to ask themselves why Canon is leading the market even though they've had a superior APS-C sensor on the market for what will be 5+ years unmatched.

**
Anyway, Canon has a real huge opportunity here to deal a death-blow to Nikon with the 6D2. Decent AF and 2-card slots makes the D610 & D750 obsolete. And these are very popular cameras for entry-level pros and enthusiasts. Nikon is already hurting, and their biggest appeal is these feature rich, low cost FF.

 

[Takingshots]

Great. Hopefully they will price their camera competitively cheap so that they can sell lots of premium price lens like Sony.

 

[Takingshots]

After reading what Canon fans want I thought perhaps it maybe too late for Canon to up their game to match all of those requested. Well at this point the camera is all set to showcase and market how good and different it is against their lineup of cameras. Remember Canon if you cannot match what the competitor has to offer in the specifications; at least bring the price down to level that is enticingly attractive...eh?

 

[Mikehit]

The rumor of an announcement is a good thing. Some sites have been speculating that the 6D2 will never happen. This was floated a while back. It could be that Canon is getting better internal controls of their information, and thus rumors are getting harder to come by, and silence is interpreted as "not happening" ...?


etc

A whole load of emotive words in there - to my mind excessive use of the word 'cripple'. What exactly do you mean by that? Is 'manufacture to a price' now called 'crippling'?

You hit the nail on the head when you said"People buying a few lenses of that level aren't going to restrict themselves to a 6D2 anyway". Expand that to 'the market to which the 6D2 is aimed' is not probably not bothered about 45-point AF or dual card slots. Useful, yes. But expect them?

This keeps on cropping up time and again - what is the aim of the 6D2? The aim of the 6D was introduction to full frame at a knock-down price. If (and this is the key question)....if the 6D2 is intended as an introduction to FF at 2,000 USD, why would you expect anything near to what the 5D4 offers? If you want a FF version of the 6D2 then how much would it cost to substitute a FF sensor (with all the processing hardware and software) for a APS-C?

 

[Mikehit]

At that point, I cannot see anyone with any common sense buying a 6D2 as an entry level FF over the Nikon D750. Nikon glass is good enough and close enough in price. Significantly better value, more feature rich.

So anyone with a xxxD camera wanting to go FF would say 'hey, I will just sell my gear, take a loss and move to Nikon all for the sake of 2 card slots'? No, they will go 6D2. And those that do are not going to be in the numbers that matter to Canon. Nikon will take the same view over aspects of their products as well - most photographers are brand loyal and not bothered about the minor improvements in changing brands.

So tell me, where does this 'common sense' apply?

I don't know how 5D4 sales have been, but it seems to me the buzz and hype over it is dramatically less than the 5D3 was when it came out and when it was in its heyday. Yes, the market is in a decline overall. And there's more competition now. But still, the 5D4 isn't getting this type of industry wide praise the 5D3 was as king of the hill. The must have, do-all FF beast.

The 5DIV never was going to shake the foundations of the industry because the technology in all brands is quite mature. But anyone who has sold the 5DIII has said the overall package the 5DIV offers is a worthwhile upgrade. The fact that the 5DIV has not seen a price drop over 6 months after its release (bar the odd offer here and there) suggests it is selling quite nicely.

 

[shutterlag]

So it comes down to, how do they gimp it? What do they leave out? What features do they include on for the spec sheet but cripple in practice (i.e. codec). Here's my list of the major weak points you can probably call out without even seeing the camera:

No dual card slots
Crippled 4k video
No IBIS, which is pathetic given the 6 stops that Panasonic & Olympus have achieved by combining IBIS + lens IS, and doubly sad because Pentax and Sony are both shipping FF bodies with IBIS.
No astrotracing, since that requires IBIS
AF array inferior to 5D mark IV, showing they haven't learned from Nikon's example

 

[CanonCams]

Expect the 5D3 to go poof shortly after the 6D2 announcement. There really is no reason to keep it alive any longer after that.

- A

That's what I'd hope. 6D was made to replace the 5D2 and mitigate the damage caused by the 5D2 on the second hand market, so I'd expect the 6D2 to be the same for the 5D3. The 5D3 has already ceased production, so they'll likely wait for the last remaining stock to be sold off, then get the 6D2 out there at a similar price point to a used 5D3.

Which is great for me. 6D and 5D3 prices will drop and there will be more copies around, so it should be easier to get a clean one. A 5D3 as a 3rd backup body would be a nice catch.

I'm getting ready to take a trip into the Canadian Rockies and Coast Range and would love to have this by the end of July or thereabouts. Maybe I'll take my chances it's true and plan to go in the autumn instead.

While Canon is usually pretty good with product launches, the chance there is some major bug in the camera are still there, which would make it hard to rely on for a trip on Day 1. Not to mention going into a major trip not knowing how a new camera works...

Original 6D had a 2 month lag between announcement and shipping date. Even if this is faster, end of July is ambitious

Cameras don't have a ~2 month gap between announcement and shipping because of bugs, necessarily. That's just standard production and marketing. You always want to leave as much time as possible between announcement and shipping so you can maximise pre-orders (people guaranteed to be paying the highest possible price) balanced against still getting things out soon enough that people don't forget about it and move on.

Nor is this unique to cameras, or photography. Every company does it for every product, everywhere. Phones, computer parts, game consoles, cars, musical instruments, vacuum cleaners; you name it, every company does it. There is no benefit at all to getting your product on store shelves directly after announcement. It's always better to wait and give the news time to spread and for orders to come in.

Always expect a minimum of 1 month between announcement and shipping of a new camera body; in the vast majority of cases it'll be in the 2-3 month range. Never be surprised if it takes 4-5 months. I would only expect something is actually going wrong in production if either they announce a delay from their original stated shipping date, or if their original shipping date is 6+ months from announcement in the first place.

"The 5D3 has already ceased production"

How do you know this?

 

[CanonCams]

I just hope 6d2 doesn't go the way 5d4 (and 5d3) went, with black autofocus points rather than red illuminated af points. I nearly bought a 5d4 over the weekend but even in the mostly well-lit B&H store I lost track of the AF points I was selecting. I decided to wait for the 6d2 and see if it will have around 45 or so af points, and if they will be illuminated. In that case I'm a buyer.

If it is going to be similar to the 80D, it should have red focus points.

 

[Mikehit]

So it comes down to, how do they gimp it? What do they leave out? What features do they include on for the spec sheet but cripple in practice (i.e. codec). Here's my list of the major weak points you can probably call out without even seeing the camera:

No dual card slots
Crippled 4k video
No IBIS, which is pathetic given the 6 stops that Panasonic & Olympus have achieved by combining IBIS + lens IS, and doubly sad because Pentax and Sony are both shipping FF bodies with IBIS.
No astrotracing, since that requires IBIS
AF array inferior to 5D mark IV, showing they haven't learned from Nikon's example

Do you go onto Pentax, Sony, Panasonic and Olympus forums and point out how they are dead meat because they do not do the things that Canon do well?

 

[CanonCams]

This keeps on cropping up time and again - what is the aim of the 6D2? The aim of the 6D was introduction to full frame at a knock-down price. If (and this is the key question)....if the 6D2 is intended as an introduction to FF at 2,000 USD, why would you expect anything near to what the 5D4 offers? If you want a FF version of the 6D2 then how much would it cost to substitute a FF sensor (with all the processing hardware and software) for a APS-C?

Yes, the big question is how much more are people willing to pay for the 5D MK IV? Are dual slots worth the extra $1k ? How about more focus points?