Canon EOS 6D Mark II Announcement Coming in July [CR2]

[wildwalker]

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
(I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

I think that if you were disappointed with the 5DIV you're a hard man to please

Lol maybe.

I wasn't totally disappointed Just the pricing was way to high in my opinion, the 5KMk2 was £2000, the Mk3 was £3000 and the Mk4 £3700, a big hike in price, but not so much in features. The biggest gripe was the UHD only being p30, I work in the broadcast industry and this is quite frankly laughable.

I don't use the video much on my Mk2, and so am not that concerned, but if you are going to bump the price, the features should match.

Aaaaaaaaaannddd then there is the £99 if you want C-Log (omg I'm ranting, I'll stop now lol)

So anyway, the 6DMk2 should have what I want in terms of a stills camera, but I think that if the rumoured £2000 price tag is true then that is okay (it's a little more than the £1700 launch price of the 6D Mk1).

All the best,
Alan.

 

[jeffa4444]

Ive been using the 5D MKIV along side the 5DS for two weeks. The biggest like on the 5D MKIV is the lever for going through focusing points quickly with the camera still at eye level. In all other respects and in real world use there is very little difference operationally and that's not a bad thing. The images from the 5D MKIV are very good but then in well lit situations they are from the 5DS (low light the MKIV is better). The 5DS definitely allows for harsher cropping. (Ive the Wi-Fi card for the 5DS hardly ever used it but its useful in landscape, GPS is a big attraction for landscape)

So do I think the 5D MKIV is worth £ 700 ($ 900) more that the price of the 5DS, no.

So I will wait until the 6D MKII comes out before deciding what I replace my 6D with which still remains a great travel camera and has been a faithful workhorse.

 

[ahsanford]

The rumor of an announcement is a good thing...

Many interesting thoughts here. Thx for the post.

1) I see the 6D2 being a full-frame 80D (in broad strokes): significant AF upgrade (more than 19 and less than 61/65 of the nicer rigs) + tilty-flippy + DPAF + single slot + 5-6 fps. However, 4K (and how croppy it might be), 1/8000 shutter, and better sync speed would appear to be the 'maybe not for this price point' sort of decisions.

2) 'Death blow to Nikon' is exceptionally premature -- don't let a chain of bad business decisions in other segments (APS-C compacts, CX sensored mirrorless, etc.) fool you into thinking they've forgotten how an SLR works. An update to all of the D610 / D750 / D810 are in the works and if the D500 is any indication, Nikon is not fooling around with how much tech they'll pack into a new rig. Backlit keys, massive buffers, oodles of AF points -- short of IBIS and strong video AF, it seems like everything will be packed into their future FF SLRs.

3) Re: low buzz on the 5D4 vs. 5D3 -- largely, I agree, but now the 5D# line is a mature, it somewhat markets itself and I'd imagine sales are steady there. Also, Canon needs to put more energy into newer stuff that the 5D2 set into motion -- like folks making movies (Cinema EOS), enthusiasts stepping up to FF (6D line), etc. -- so it stands to reason that Canon's marketing focus is naturally more spread out given how many more lines of cameras they carry.

4) I am a broken record on the 7D3. Just because the D500 exists and Canon now has better on-chip ADC sensors does not mean a fast refresh 7D3 will happen. That's an forum-dweller engineering a christmas-comes-early outcome that walks against the grain of Canon being Canon: nothing is ever refreshed faster than the cycle that came before it. The 7D3 will happen in 2019-ish timeframe unless 7D2 sales completely tank, and I've seen zero evidence to that effect.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

After reading what Canon fans want I thought perhaps it maybe too late for Canon to up their game to match all of those requested. Well at this point the camera is all set to showcase and market how good and different it is against their lineup of cameras. Remember Canon if you cannot match what the competitor has to offer in the specifications; at least bring the price down to level that is enticingly attractive...eh?

You are forgetting the specs that Canon never really need to advertise that the Sonys of the world do not offer. Put on your rose-tinted glasses to see the hidden specs in a Canon camera that dramatically bolster why they charge what they charge:

• blah blah blah megapixels
• blah blah blah AF points
• Natively compatible with / ideally performs with the largest FF lens portfolio in the industry
• blah blah blah fps
• blah blah blah card slots
• Honesty / up-front fine print with the specs -- no surprises with compressed RAW, locked AF after first exposure, limited fps with AF with certain lenses, etc.
• The finest reliability / service / build quality of all the major camera manufacturers
• blah blah blah sync speed
• Robust resale value
• blah blah blah video options
• blah blah blah wifi / NFC items
• Ergonomics, handling, menu setup that doesn't make you want to kill things with a hammer
• blah blah blah touchscreen
• blah blah blah AA filters
• The largest third party ecosystem of accessories and lenses to use with your camera
• blah blah blah ISO limits

So the notion that Canon needs to jam as much tech as Sony / Pentax into their rigs or they should only charge Sony / Pentax prices = madness. Other companies should charge less for their stuff because they often cannot claim they offer the stuff in black above -- and most people really care about those things.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

So it comes down to, how do they gimp it? What do they leave out? What features do they include on for the spec sheet but cripple in practice (i.e. codec). Here's my list of the major weak points you can probably call out without even seeing the camera:

No dual card slots
Crippled 4k video
No IBIS, which is pathetic given the 6 stops that Panasonic & Olympus have achieved by combining IBIS + lens IS, and doubly sad because Pentax and Sony are both shipping FF bodies with IBIS.
No astrotracing, since that requires IBIS
AF array inferior to 5D mark IV, showing they haven't learned from Nikon's example

Agree on dual card slots and video, but AF simply must be nerfed to the 5D4 to some extent.

IBIS = : <-- this is CaNikon rolling its eyes at something useful that its marketeers have determined they won't lose business for not offering it, so it moves on without it. Every forum-dweller fight-starter stokes their engines in glee each time they do. I've already devoted too many words to blowing it off. Not happening.

You forgot fps, which I think will be ever-so-slightly nerfed at 5-6 fps under the 5D4's nerfed-to-protect-the-1DX2 somewhat disappointing 7 fps. (I will always bemoan how a 5DS and 7D2 -- two wildly different cameras for different camps of shooters -- gets two DIGIC chips while the 5D# line always gets one, but I digress.)

You also forgot overall build quality, which cannot be overstated. The 5D line is very well built.

- A

 

[GammyKnee]

GPS is good as it is so sensitive to noise in it's available radio bands that everything else must be quiet otherwise it stops working. I strongly believe this is why the 6D (mk1) was the best of the twin chip (sensor + ADC) cameras Canon has built when it comes to banding.

Just want to say thanks for this post - I really appreciated getting a little insight into all this stuff!

 

[ahsanford]

This keeps on cropping up time and again - what is the aim of the 6D2? The aim of the 6D was introduction to full frame at a knock-down price. If (and this is the key question)....if the 6D2 is intended as an introduction to FF at 2,000 USD, why would you expect anything near to what the 5D4 offers? If you want a FF version of the 6D2 then how much would it cost to substitute a FF sensor (with all the processing hardware and software) for a APS-C?

Yes, the big question is how much more are people willing to pay for the 5D MK IV? Are dual slots worth the extra $1k ? How about more focus points?

I see the 6D2 climbing up from a 'knock-down price FF rig' into something better for the growing FF userbase that wants more tech. I see it sliding nicely into the D750 + aging 5D3 space -- a nice all-arounder that comprehensively steps up from its predecessor.

- A

 

[scrup]

Announcement of an announcement. Yahoo. Can't wait to see what new tech Canon brings to the table.

 

[privatebydesign]

(I will always bemoan how a 5DS and 7D2 -- two wildly different cameras for different camps of shooters -- gets two DIGIC chips while the 5D# line always gets one, but I digress.)

Because one is more efficient than two from a power and processing point of view, but Digic 6 and 6+'s don't have the processing power and speed to match the Digic 7, but the 7 wasn't ready for the 7D MkII and 5DS/r.

The 7 series camera fills the processes per second equation with lower resolution but higher fps, the 5DS/r the other way around.

 

[ahsanford]

Because one is more efficient than two from a power and processing point of view, but Digic 6 and 6+'s don't have the processing power and speed to match the Digic 7, but the 7 wasn't ready for the 7D MkII and 5DS/r.

The 7 series camera fills the processes per second equation with lower resolution but higher fps, the 5DS/r the other way around.

What I'm saying is:

The 5DS got the support of 'if it's not 5 fps it's not viable as a general use rig' --> so it got a second chip.

The 7D2 got the support of 'it's not 10 fps it's not competitive as a sports/wildlife rig' --> so it got a second chip.

The 5D4 did not tock a 'too slow for general use' box and it isn't thought of as a high fps line for action, so Canon saved its money.

Normally, that's fine, but the latest rumored 6D2 specs here were 6 fps (if I recall correctly), just one shy of the 5D4's 7 fps. I still contend that 8-9 fps would have better cemented the 5D4 in the 'not so sexy as to steal 1DX2 sales' column while keeping a 6 fps 6D2 a clear step below the 5D4.

- A

 

[jedy]

I'd love a clean HDMI out but somehow doubt that. Something about not wanting to cannibalise their cine camera range which means loosing out to Sony and Panasonic instead.

 

[wildwalker]

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.

(for the 5DMk4 I think the features were weak, especially on video on release. and the price was too high compared to previous 5DMkx bodies).

If the 6DMk2 has the DPAF, and a better focussing system (which lets be honest, it would have to have) then I think I will buy one of these. I use the 5DMk2 currently, and an loking for better focussing performance over the 5DMk2, along with a big bump in dynamic range (I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

Cheers all.
Alan.

The release price of the 5DIV is the same as the 5DIII was. So what was 'expensive' about it?
I would be very surprised if the 6D2 did not have a better AF system than the 5D2, given advances in the meantime (even the 80D has a better AF than the 5D2). But 3 stops dynamic range? I think you being very optimistic.

Is 3 stops optimistic (I am talking over the 5DMk2, in case I didn't make that clear, sorry).

When I first saw the 5KMk3 at NAB (I think it was 2012) the Canon guys told me it had two stops dynamic range over the 5DMk2, so I am factoring in a little enthusiasm there and figuring that since my 5DMk2 is now approaching 9 years old (I bought it end 2008) that an extra stop of dynamic range over the last four years, plus the two that Canon told me over the 5DMk3 would give me circa three stops of Dynamic range in the 6DMk2 over the 5DMk2.

I could of course be completely wrong, and if you know better about the possible specs please let me know, I am looking to buy the 6KMk2 this year so any information is welcome.

Alan

 

[BeenThere]

At this point, everyone is speculating. No solid specification rumors yet.

 

[privatebydesign]

What I'm saying is:

The 5DS got the support of 'if it's not 5 fps it's not viable as a general use rig' --> so it got a second chip.

The 7D2 got the support of 'it's not 10 fps it's not competitive as a sports/wildlife rig' --> so it got a second chip.

The 5D4 did not tock a 'too slow for general use' box and it isn't thought of as a high fps line for action, so Canon saved its money.

Normally, that's fine, but the latest rumored 6D2 specs here were 6 fps (if I recall correctly), just one shy of the 5D4's 7 fps. I still contend that 8-9 fps would have better cemented the 5D4 in the 'not so sexy as to steal 1DX2 sales' column while keeping a 6 fps 6D2 a clear step below the 5D4.

- A

The 5DS/r and 7D MkII have two Digic 6's, the 5D MkIV has one Digic 6+ and one 6.

 

[Mikehit]

Is 3 stops optimistic (I am talking over the 5DMk2, in case I didn't make that clear, sorry).

When I first saw the 5KMk3 at NAB (I think it was 2012) the Canon guys told me it had two stops dynamic range over the 5DMk2, so I am factoring in a little enthusiasm there and figuring that since my 5DMk2 is now approaching 9 years old (I bought it end 2008) that an extra stop of dynamic range over the last four years, plus the two that Canon told me over the 5DMk3 would give me circa three stops of Dynamic range in the 6DMk2 over the 5DMk2.

I could of course be completely wrong, and if you know better about the possible specs please let me know, I am looking to buy the 6KMk2 this year so any information is welcome.

Alan

Sensor technology has not advanced a whole lot since the 5D2. Yes, there have been incremental changes, and yes the backlit sensor has added to that, but I sometimes get the feeling that any increases are limited to lower ISOs and even then some of that is due to massaging of the technology than a genuine widening of the dynamic range

 

[ashmadux]

Good timing; I was just thinking of getting another backup body and couldn't decide whether to risk a punt on a knackered 5D2 or the fresher but slightly-more-expensive-than-I-like-to-pay-for-a-backup 6D. If the 6D2 comes soon, fingers crossed the used market gets flooded with 6Ds and the price bottoms out. Or maybe the 5D3 will do the same.

Haha, someone who thinks like me! I almost thought I was reading one of my own comments.

Someone PLEASE take my 6d so i can get a 80d....i cant take lying on the ground for low shots anymore. Also need some of that live view tracking goodness.

Over a year, hasn't been touched...its so lonely

and for the love of god and all that is holy, PLEASE CANON put a full swivel screen...not that one direction crap.

 

[wildwalker]

Is 3 stops optimistic (I am talking over the 5DMk2, in case I didn't make that clear, sorry).

When I first saw the 5KMk3 at NAB (I think it was 2012) the Canon guys told me it had two stops dynamic range over the 5DMk2, so I am factoring in a little enthusiasm there and figuring that since my 5DMk2 is now approaching 9 years old (I bought it end 2008) that an extra stop of dynamic range over the last four years, plus the two that Canon told me over the 5DMk3 would give me circa three stops of Dynamic range in the 6DMk2 over the 5DMk2.

I could of course be completely wrong, and if you know better about the possible specs please let me know, I am looking to buy the 6KMk2 this year so any information is welcome.

Alan

Sensor technology has not advanced a whole lot since the 5D2. Yes, there have been incremental changes, and yes the backlit sensor has added to that, but I sometimes get the feeling that any increases are limited to lower ISOs and even then some of that is due to massaging of the technology than a genuine widening of the dynamic range

Thank you for the info Mikehit, I might take my 5DMk2 to the shop and do some test shots using that and the 6DMk2 for a little test when it is out.

I want to get another body as I am a bit nervous about the age of the 5DMk2, I use some APS-C bodies as a backup, but would love another FF sensor body.

The important things for me are (over the 5DMk2) more DR, better (faster) focusing, better noise handling at ISO3200/6400 and that is really about it. Hopefully the 6DMk2 will tick those boxes.

Thanks for the replies,
Alan.

 

[Sporgon]

The important things for me are (over the 5DMk2) more DR, better (faster) focusing, better noise handling at ISO3200/6400 and that is really about it. Hopefully the 6DMk2 will tick those boxes.

Having owned a 6D for a couple of years I'd say that the current one ticks those boxes to be quite honest. As with all things DR on the current 14 bit sensors, the DR increase is really just about improved shadow recovery. I still use a 5DII too, the advantages that the 6D has over the 5DII didn't win me over in the end. Both these cameras have robust highlights and good highlight headroom, so as long as I don't underexposed the 5DII I never have any issues. The current 6D has a much improved QE over the 5DII, and so the latter can't compete at very high ISO even with the latest raw converters. Also I wouldn't expect the QE of the 6DII to be much of an improvement over the current one.

 

[aceflibble]

LOL @ people thinking a 6D2 will be in any way made to be comparable to a 5D4, let alone better than it in any way.

The 6D was made to mitigate the 5D2 on the second hand market. It compared to the 5D2, while the 5D3 was the top '5' body at the time.

The 6D2 will be for mitigating sales of the 5D3 on the second hand market. It will compare to the 5D3, while the 5D4 and 5DS/R are the top '5' bodies.

Stop thinking about the 6D2 in terms of what the 5D4, 5DSR, 80D, or 7D3 are/might be. It's going to be a 5D3 with a slightly cheaper body shell and SD cards instead of CF. That is its entire purpose for being. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing different.

 

[ahsanford]

LOL @ people thinking a 6D2 will be in any way made to be comparable to a 5D4, let alone better than it in any way.

LOL indeed. Where would they get that nutty idea? :

Answer: The 6D already did offer things above and beyond what the 5D3 offered...

• The 6D had a -3 EV AF center point. The 5D3 did not.
• Some would argue the 6D was an ever-so-slightly better sensor than the 5D3 -- depending on what you shoot.
• The 6D had Wifi onboard. The 5D3 did not.
• The 6D had GPS onboard. The 5D3 did not.

...so it's not a stretch whatsoever to think the 6D2 might do the same to the 5D4.

I am not for a moment purporting the 6D was a better camera overall than the 5D3 because that would be insane. But in some aspects, the 6D absolutely got features the 5D3 did not -- this is not a matter of opinion.

Expect the 6D2 to do the same. It will get some small/nice things (beyond the tilty-flippy LCD) that will make the 5D4 owners juuuuust a little jealous. My vote is on a 'It is a 6 fps camera with an FF sensor on par with the 5D4's sensor for $1500 less.'

- A