Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[Handrews]

Hi guys,

Speaking of the 6D2, if you were an APS-C user upgrading to FF, would you go for 5D3 or wait for 6D2? I reckon that launch price for 6D2 would be roughly in the same area as current 5d3 prices.
And how long do you think the 5D3 would be maintained in production?
Thank you,
Andrei

 

[Mikehit]

Given that no-one knows the specification of the 6D2 that is impossible to say. But one thing that is certain is that it will not be a 5DIV with a higher spec sensor that some people seem to imagine will come out because that would be called the 5DV. Also the 6D was an entry-level FF camera which means the quality of FF without all the expensive bells and whistles of the 5D/1D series and it is pointless producing a 6D2 that does not maintain that raison d'etre.

So if you have APS-C it depends on which one and what functionality you want - resolution for landscapes or AF and shutter speed for action? And a host of other considerations.

 

[Handrews]

Correct. I figure the specs will produce little surprises, i.e. 24-28 MP with 5DIV dynamic range, about the same ISO range, touchscreen (with tilt maybe), 5-6 fps, DPAF, no 4K and an AF similar to 80D. In my case, I'm using a 550D, so in either case in would be a major update anyway . As for the purpose, I would certainly value an all-rounder.

 

[ExodistPhotography]

Hi guys,

Speaking of the 6D2, if you were an APS-C user upgrading to FF, would you go for 5D3 or wait for 6D2? I reckon that launch price for 6D2 would be roughly in the same area as current 5d3 prices.
And how long do you think the 5D3 would be maintained in production?
Thank you,
Andrei

6D2 or even just the 6D... The 5D3 has horrible low light capabilities...

 

[Handrews]

I didn't shot with 5d3, but, if I remember correctly, 5d3 central focus point is -2 EV vs 6d -3EV. I see your point, thank you. OTOH, 6d1 has a pretty basic AF, not much different from the one on my 550D

 

[Mikehit]

I didn't shot with 5d3, but, if I remember correctly, 5d3 central focus point is -2 EV vs 6d -3EV. I see your point, thank you. OTOH, 6d1 has a pretty basic AF, not much different from the one on my 550D

A few years ago I upgraded from 30D+70-300 (the non-L version) to the 7D original + 100-400 original.
I tried the different combinations and found that the AF of the 30D+100-400 outperformed the 7D+70-300 which surprised me at the time but showed how big a part the lens plays in AF and reinforced the idea of 'glass first'. The real benefit the 7D2/5D and 1Dx is that the focussing modes (especially the multi-point modes) offer greater chance of keeping a moving subject in focus. So really it depends on how much you value photographing moving subjects.

 

[K]

Hi guys,

Speaking of the 6D2, if you were an APS-C user upgrading to FF, would you go for 5D3 or wait for 6D2? I reckon that launch price for 6D2 would be roughly in the same area as current 5d3 prices.
And how long do you think the 5D3 would be maintained in production?
Thank you,
Andrei

Really depends what you're looking for.


Even the 6D had better image quality than the 5D3. Especially in the shadows. 5D3 will go down as having the worst shadow noise of that generation, and by a good margin. Let's face it, the 5D3 was really bad in that regard. Even minor shadow boosts at low ISO on pretty good exposures would introduce grain. Recoveries of photos was rough due to the severe banding. If your exposures are perfect OR you don't care much about lifting shadows - the 5D3 has a lot of other strong suits - such as a better AF system, data redundancy (2 cards), better build quality, better view finder, better controls, more FPS, so forth and so on. It's more of a professional workhorse designed for a professional work-flow.


I doubt the 6D2 will have a better AF system than the 5D3, because if it does - then it will be too close to the 5D4 and that could hurt 5D sales. 6D2 will have a weaker system to keep it in the enthusiast category.

That said, the 6D2 will slaughter the 5D3 in image quality due to a much newer and improved sensor. This is based on the 80D, 5D4 and 1DX2 performance. 6D2 can only be better or equal, not worse than those. And these newest releases shows how archaic the 5D3 sensor is, particularly in dynamic range.


If price is the same, I would absolutely go with the 6D2. I would easily sacrifice FPS and AF for the IQ. I would not sacrifice for having 1 card slot though. Because at the end of the day, it's better to have 5D3 photos, than better 6D2 photos that are gone because of some SD card corruption. It is not a matter of if, but of when.

The 6D2 will also have a lot of newer features - such as -3EV AF which is very handy, anti-flicker, wifi and much more...


And while I bash the 5D3, put it in context. This has been a pro workhorse for 4 years - cranking out amazing images across the industry that will please the most demanding standards for many years to come. It's just not a forgiving sensor of exposure errors. And it does not give much latitude for those who need it (landscape).

 

[Mikehit]

Really depends what you're looking for.


Even the 6D had better image quality than the 5D3. Especially in the shadows. 5D3 will go down as having the worst shadow noise of that generation, and by a good margin. Let's face it, the 5D3 was really bad in that regard. Even minor shadow boosts at low ISO on pretty good exposures would introduce grain. Recoveries of photos was rough due to the severe banding. If your exposures are perfect OR you don't care much about lifting shadows - the 5D3 has a lot of other strong suits - such as a better AF system, data redundancy (2 cards), better build quality, better view finder, better controls, more FPS, so forth and so on. It's more of a professional workhorse designed for a professional work-flow.

That always amuses me. It was absolutely terrible, the worst of its generation..yet designed for professionals, designed for professional workflow and used by professionals whose very livelihood depended on using such an appalling camera. Perhaps people ought to learn how to use a camera before blaming the camera manufacturer for their shortfalls.

And while I bash the 5D3, put it in context. This has been a pro workhorse for 4 years - cranking out amazing images across the industry that will please the most demanding standards for many years to come. It's just not a forgiving sensor of exposure errors. And it does not give much latitude for those who need it (landscape).

Out of interest, how many times does a scene fall between the magic band between the DR capabilities of a Canon 5D3 (or 5D4) and the DR capabilities of a Nikon D800/8100? And compare that to how many times you need bracketing (or filters) whichever camera you use?

 

[Random Orbits]

If you shoot things that move then a 5DIII is probably a better choice. That and being able to use outer focus points with fast lenses on moving targets gives you more freedom in framing the way you want rather than framing loose with the center point and cropping hard afterwards.

EV -3 vs. -2 is rarely an issue. You can always use flash assist in darker situations. Gray market pricing for the 5DIV already fell to 3200 USD and might test the 3000 USD soon. That might be something to consider if you're willing to wait for 6DII to arrive.

 

[Loswr]

Out of interest, how many times does a scene fall between the magic band between the DR capabilities of a Canon 5D3 (or 5D4) and the DR capabilities of a Nikon D800/8100? And compare that to how many times you need bracketing (or filters) whichever camera you use?

It happens constantly, which totally explains why the D800 outsold the 5DIII so well that that Nikon soon released the D810 which outsold the 5DIII even moreso. I know with the horrible shadow noise and complete inability to lift shadows that occurs with the 1D X, I personally have had at least 10 shots that fell in that magic band.

EV -3 vs. -2 is rarely an issue.

That's absolutely true. Consider an example of the difference between -2 EV and -3 EV: 1/15 s, f/2.8, ISO 51200 vs 102400. Would either of them produce a usable image? Maybe for a 75x75 thumbnail...

 

[Handrews]

Thank you all for your thoughts, much appreciated! I guess I'm leaning towards 5d3..

 

[Alex_M]

It is more of AF performance issue in low light situation even with AF assist on than image quality.

EV -3 vs. -2 is rarely an issue.

That's absolutely true. Consider an example of the difference between -2 EV and -3 EV: 1/15 s, f/2.8, ISO 51200 vs 102400. Would either of them produce a usable image? Maybe for a 75x75 thumbnail...

 

[Loswr]

It is more of AF performance issue in low light situation even with AF assist on than image quality.

EV -3 vs. -2 is rarely an issue.

That's absolutely true. Consider an example of the difference between -2 EV and -3 EV: 1/15 s, f/2.8, ISO 51200 vs 102400. Would either of them produce a usable image? Maybe for a 75x75 thumbnail...

My point is that the -2 vs. -3 EV differentiation in AF performance is in conditions of such low light that it's pretty much impossible to get a usable image, so the whole issue of AF performance is moot. In situations where ambeint light is that low, you're either going to need to add light for the shot (in which case you can use AF assist, which in my experience works quite well) or use a very long exposure (in which case you're on a tripod and can use Live View to AF).

The difference between -2 EV and -3 EV (or -4 EV) for AF functionality looks nice on a spec sheet, but from a practical standpoint it's meaningless – spec sheets don't take pictures.

 

[Mikehit]

The difference between -2 EV and -3 EV (or -4 EV) for AF functionality looks nice on a spec sheet, but from a practical standpoint it's meaningless – spec sheets don't take pictures.

But does that increased sensitivity have benefits at higher light levels - for example cameras designed to AF at f8, where the amount of light hitting the AF sensors is reduced, having that greater sensitivity has a real world benefit?

 

[Loswr]

The difference between -2 EV and -3 EV (or -4 EV) for AF functionality looks nice on a spec sheet, but from a practical standpoint it's meaningless – spec sheets don't take pictures.

But does that increased sensitivity have benefits at higher light levels - for example cameras designed to AF at f8, where the amount of light hitting the AF sensors is reduced, having that greater sensitivity has a real world benefit?

Possibly, but likely not. But it's worth noting that the spec (when it's stated) is usually with an f/1.4 lens. So, an f/8 lens would be letting in 5 stops less light. Still, given than +3 EV is basically a night scene (with not too much artificial light), I can't see many people using a TC + supertele in those circumstances.

The one situation I can see it possibly mattering is macro shooting, where the effective amount of light reaching the AF sensor is significantly reduced. However, the light loss isn't bad at 1x mag, it becomes an issue with the MP-E 65mm, but AF performance isn't relevant.

 

[Alex_M]

no, as far as I know. -2 vs -3 ev issue is more of AF-ability in very and very low light...

As Nero stated above, in very low light and when Flash AF assist is not available, you are on tripod and the live view to the rescue (-3EV in live mode even for 5D mark II, AFAIK)

that said, even for night shots on tripod , I would be usually at ISO 100, F11, around 30 sec shutter speed and thats is only +2EV!! I cannot imagine situation when I need to be at 1024 sec shutter speed to hit -3EV exposure territory. Now, thats dark! May be for Astro work??? not sure. So yes, from ".. a practical standpoint it's meaningless..."

 

[Mikehit]

Thanks Neuro, thanks Alex.

 

[hmatthes]

6D is the best SLR I've used. End of story. My image quality is better than I found with a borrowed 5DIII, almost equal to my Leica. Phenomenal low light capability, great shadow recovery (I am careful in exp. comp. per image), light weight, uses all my EF glass, even the ultra wide.
Popular complaints:
No Flash! Me: Good! I have a Speedlight, rarely use it.
Very few focus points! Me: focus, compose, await the perfect moment. Rarely have focus issues.
Slow frame rate! Me: Good! Don't need a machine gun. Want frame rate, get a 7DII or 1DX2
No flippy screen! I rarely flipped my 70D, I prefer simplicity and durability.

What do I want in a 6DII? Same philosophy, bump MP a bit, bump IQ a bit, that all I want... except:
Ultimate 6D replacement: Mirrorless 6D with "Leica SL quality EVF", closer flange but included EF adapter!
Could use all my EF glass, could use Leica glass with adapter, silent operation, super IQ?

 

[cpsico]

If this camera follows the trend of highest IQ in the smallest full frame form factor I am all in for this camera. I love photography but sometimes big huge cameras and lenses steals a bit of my joy when at family parties, hiking, or just enjoying the day. This is where my 6d is my favorite camera. There are many small compromises on this camera. but sheer joy of photography for the purpose of beautiful images is not one of the 6d's shortfalls. I look forward to the next evolution of this camera. It is my most loved camera without it being my most capable.