Canon eos 77D

[Nininini]

Oh Gee, Should i sell my seven-ty dee? or my Seven dee to buy this seven-ty seven dee? Or just own three?

We got the EOS 7D, then the 70D, and now the 77D. What's next?

Maybe after 1-2 years later when we get the 90D, we can expect a little sister called 88D.
Or we might get a 8D first?

Say no to camera inbreeding.

 

[ahsanford]

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

[Focus and recompose] + [fast glass shot wide open] + [relatively close subject (not macro, but say 5 feet on a standard prime)] is a great way to mis-focus and get a blurry shot. I never experienced that phenomenon myself until I slapped I starting using f/1.4 primes on my 5D3, and that makes sense: the smaller your DOF, the more reframing after focusing will hurt you.

- A

 

[slclick]

A 70D,77D,80D comparison chart is in order, yes I can wait until the announcement.

But if any of you chart minded graphics wizards with colored arrows and such want to draw up something please by all means knock yourself out

 

[Nininini]

A 70D,77D,80D comparison chart is in order, yes I can wait until the announcement.

But if any of you chart minded graphics wizards with colored arrows and such want to draw up something please by all means knock yourself out

 

[benkam]

Excellent, Nini....

DPAF in (what used to be?) a Rebel? Yes! Supposedly, the 80D's 45-point AF? Yes yes. The 77D's looking great (rumor-wise) so far. If Canon keep this in the 760D price range, that would be really nice.

 

[IglooEater]

A 70D,77D,80D comparison chart is in order, yes I can wait until the announcement.

But if any of you chart minded graphics wizards with colored arrows and such want to draw up something please by all means knock yourself out

Thanks, that's helpful. I wonder what will be differentiating the 80D from the 77D at this point. That son-of-a-rebel is frightfully close to the 7D II given its heritage.

 

[Silverstream]

As a full time pro with 4 bodies - 3 FF and one old crop, this seems like a nice cheap upgrade for the old crop. $850-$900 is cheap enough that its worth it just for occasional use or just casual use. I also still have my wonderful EFS 17-55 F2.8

I very occasionally shoot video so the in body 5 axis stabilization is very appealing. DPAF is a massive plus for that. The new sensor tech has proven to be wonderful with the new dynamic range. And finally, sometimes the crop factor can be really handy as opposed to an extender that cuts my fstop up to f4 on my 70-200mkII particularly if I want to get more into sports shooting. The 7 frames a second should be quite capable for almost all work too.

This makes sense for me. I will likely try to get rid of my old crop and one of my FF cameras in anticipation of also getting a 6DmkII when it ships.

 

[ahsanford]

One big asterisk -- that electronic IS is for video only, right? It is not IBIS for stills at all.

Still, look at the 77D: 24 MP + 6 fps + 45 AF points + DPAF + tilty-flippy touchscreen + (hopefully) on-chip ADC sensor* = lasers.

That's a heck of a rig for the money. A lot of people would be pretty stoked if those turned out to be the 6D2 specs (obv with a FF sensor).

One thing missing on the chart = AFMA. Still don't know if the 77D will get it.

- A

 

[slclick]

As a full time pro with 4 bodies - 3 FF and one old crop, this seems like a nice cheap upgrade for the old crop. $850-$900 is cheap enough that its worth it just for occasional use or just casual use. I also still have my wonderful EFS 17-55 F2.8

I very occasionally shoot video so the in body 5 axis stabilization is very appealing. DPAF is a massive plus for that. The new sensor tech has proven to be wonderful with the new dynamic range. And finally, sometimes the crop factor can be really handy as opposed to an extender that cuts my fstop up to f4 on my 70-200mkII particularly if I want to get more into sports shooting. The 7 frames a second should be quite capable for almost all work too.

This makes sense for me. I will likely try to get rid of my old crop and one of my FF cameras in anticipation of also getting a 6DmkII when it ships.

When the 80D can be had for $889, I think to make it worth your while with that spec list it should come in in the $700 range. Otherwise, better bodies are just pennies more.

 

[jd7]

One big asterisk -- that electronic IS is for video only, right? It is not IBIS for stills at all.

Still, look at the 77D: 24 MP + 6 fps + 45 AF points + DPAF + tilty-flippy touchscreen + (hopefully) on-chip ADC sensor* = lasers.

That's a heck of a rig for the money. A lot of people would be pretty stoked if those turned out to be the 6D2 specs (obv with a FF sensor).

One thing missing on the chart = AFMA. Still don't know if the 77D will get it.

- A

The 77D sounds like it is shaping up to be a good rig for the money, but a few further things which could be added to the chart are:

is there any difference in the number/spread of different types of AF points, eg do the 45 point AF systems in the 77D and 80D both have the same number/spread of cross type AF points, etc;

is there any reason to think any of the cameras track moving targets better/worse, eg do the 77D and 80D do equally well at handing off a target from one AF point to another;

controls/ergonomics - I'm still a huge fan of the joystick on the higher end bodies, although I don't think any of the cameras in the chart have one of those. I think the 70D and 80D both have a control wheel with 8-way D-pad though, but I don't think the 760D or the 77D do(?). I would have thought that was a pretty big deal in terms of usability of the camera ...??

For my own part, all these new product announcements from Canon recently are just making me really keen to know what the 6D mark II will have to offer.

 

[digitalride]

When the 80D can be had for $889, I think to make it worth your while with that spec list it should come in in the $700 range. Otherwise, better bodies are just pennies more.

That's the trouble with so many bodies with similar specs - every time I looked the street price of the 70D made the t6s nearly irrelevant. I guess it could make sense to have 2 models at a similar price point if one is distinguished by the smaller body which some people might prefer, but the smaller bodies are always crippled feature-wise.

 

[ahsanford]

When the 80D can be had for $889, I think to make it worth your while with that spec list it should come in in the $700 range. Otherwise, better bodies are just pennies more.

That's the trouble with so many bodies with similar specs - every time I looked the street price of the 70D made the t6s nearly irrelevant. I guess it could make sense to have 2 models at a similar price point if one is distinguished by the smaller body which some people might prefer, but the smaller bodies are always crippled feature-wise.

Sure, the 70D has a better top LCD, better button layout, AFMA, chunkier grip, 7 fps, a few more menus options, etc.

But does it have on-chip ADC, 45 AF points, electronic video IS, etc.?

I agree the higher product line spec is better (70D > 760D), but it's possible the new 77D puts more distance between it and it's 800D little brother this time.

- A

 

[goldenhusky]

We got the EOS 7D, then the 70D, and now the 77D. What's next?

After competing with BMW with M1, M2, M3,.... may be canon will be in race with Boeing with a 777D? from there expand the line with a 787D, 797D, etc...

 

[goldenhusky]

Don't really care if a camera has 45 or 19 AF points. For slow moving or static objects, I almost always use the center AF point, half press the shutter and recompose, or I move the AF point manually.

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

When I shoot our birds, I just don't trust AF, I know where they will be and prefocus on the ground at a distance I know the bird will be at, I turn off AF, and then point the camera to the sky, I know the width of my DoF (I'll be using at least f/5.6 or f/8.0), and I'll burst shoot and I'll get several shots perfectly in focus.

For all the commercials about cameras being able to focus on fast moving subjects, I still don't trust it and don't use it. It's not fast enough and not precise enough, if there's a cloud or tree or anything else in the frame it will miss focus, the camera has no idea that I want to focus on the bird, especially not when it doesn't take up much room in the frame, it will focus on the sky, or cloud, or tree, etc. People say that you can use AF tracking by marking a target with the AF point, I don't know what birds people shoot that allows them to use tracking, but I don't find the time to do this, you can barely see the AF markings on most Canon cameras I tried, let alone do it while looking at a bright sky.

Maybe it's because I'm used to rebel cameras, but the chance that I nail a shot on a fast moving subject by relying on the AF is much smaller than prefocus and creating a large enough DoF. Maybe it works for birds flying high in the sky, but for a fast flying bird a few meters above you, it does not work for me, only prefocus works.

I know people shooting cyclists use this prefocus on the ground trick too. It's the only thing that I trust.

I am new to wildlife photography but I really wonder how do you track a bird in flight with manual focus? Recomposing sounds like a bad idea at least to me at this point coz at times I found both 5D4 and 80D goes way out of focus especially when trying to shoot a bird in flight with the bright sky in the background.

 

[goldenhusky]

One big asterisk -- that electronic IS is for video only, right? It is not IBIS for stills at all.

I would be super excited if cannon comes out with IBIS coz if that happens then we can probably expect that in 6D2 but I think it is software based IS for video alone.

 

[dufflover]

The available specs like that nice chart (thanks!) still leaves out many other factors though like the buffer depth and viewfinder type. Does the Rebel body-size mean it would be a pentamirror for example?

Would make the 70D a good buy if it ever ends up on clearance prices or something (not that I would buy since I already have one )

 

[ritholtz]

The available specs like that nice chart (thanks!) still leaves out many other factors though like the buffer depth and viewfinder type. Does the Rebel body-size mean it would be a pentamirror for example?

Would make the 70D a good buy if it ever ends up on clearance prices or something (not that I would buy since I already have one )

MFA is the one major functionality difference. If Canon adds MFA functionality to this rebel, I prefer this over 80d.

 

[Luds34]

Reading this thread just makes me realize how much I miss my 70D at times. The good news is that if a Rebel is getting a 45 point AF system, you gotta think the new 6D2 should have something pretty substantial.

 

[Nininini]

Don't really care if a camera has 45 or 19 AF points. For slow moving or static objects, I almost always use the center AF point, half press the shutter and recompose, or I move the AF point manually.

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

When I shoot our birds, I just don't trust AF, I know where they will be and prefocus on the ground at a distance I know the bird will be at, I turn off AF, and then point the camera to the sky, I know the width of my DoF (I'll be using at least f/5.6 or f/8.0), and I'll burst shoot and I'll get several shots perfectly in focus.

For all the commercials about cameras being able to focus on fast moving subjects, I still don't trust it and don't use it. It's not fast enough and not precise enough, if there's a cloud or tree or anything else in the frame it will miss focus, the camera has no idea that I want to focus on the bird, especially not when it doesn't take up much room in the frame, it will focus on the sky, or cloud, or tree, etc. People say that you can use AF tracking by marking a target with the AF point, I don't know what birds people shoot that allows them to use tracking, but I don't find the time to do this, you can barely see the AF markings on most Canon cameras I tried, let alone do it while looking at a bright sky.

Maybe it's because I'm used to rebel cameras, but the chance that I nail a shot on a fast moving subject by relying on the AF is much smaller than prefocus and creating a large enough DoF. Maybe it works for birds flying high in the sky, but for a fast flying bird a few meters above you, it does not work for me, only prefocus works.

I know people shooting cyclists use this prefocus on the ground trick too. It's the only thing that I trust.

I am new to wildlife photography but I really wonder how do you track a bird in flight with manual focus? Recomposing sounds like a bad idea at least to me at this point coz at times I found both 5D4 and 80D goes way out of focus especially when trying to shoot a bird in flight with the bright sky in the background.

I recompose for static subjects or slow moving, not birds.

For birds I do the same thing cyclist photographers do. I AF (or MF if you have the time), on a set distance (the ground or a tree), a distance I know my bird will be at, then I set my lens to MF and point it at the sky and I shoot. With a high DOF, burst, and knowing where the bird will be you will get good shots.

It means knowing where the bird will be at a few seconds seconds ahead of time, and knowing how high it will be, but that's not hard, you start to learn how high they fly after a while.

From my experience, trying to AF on a bird that flies overhead at low altitude, is impossible with current camera tech. When you add in clouds / trees / several birds...it's not possible. Will the camera get lucky from time to time? Maybe. But it's not worth it for me, I prefer the prefocus trick and trust my instinct of knowing where the bird will be than to rely on a camera that doesn't even understand what its looking at.

It also means that AF speed on a lens doesn't matter anymore, and you can start to shoot birds with MF lenses too. Prefocus is how people always shot flying birds before AF existed.

 

[Ryananthony]

Uh what? Are you saying that cameras "get lucky" when ever they track an object properly?

From my experience, trying to AF on a bird that flies overhead at low altitude, is impossible with current camera tech. When you add in clouds / trees / several birds...it's not possible.

From my experience it is 100 percent possible and extremely reliable. Have I missed something, or are you referring to a certain camera?


EDIT: Sorry, I missed the part where you were referring to your use of rebels. This is a photo my wife took using my 1dx with the sigma 150-600C. She tracked this bird while it flew behind a canopy of trees. This was one shot of many that were in focus.