Canon eos 77D

[Nininini]

oh I just noticed something

this thing now has back-button focus button

 

[ahsanford]

$899USD body only for the EOS 77D, $1049 w/18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM, $1499 w/18-135 IS STM.

Body only MAP pricing would then be

$799 - T7i / 800D (I'm assuming, I don't think that's been confirmed, might be $749?)
$899 - 77D
$1099 - 80D
$1499 - 7D2

If that's correct, the $64,000 questions become:

• What doesn't the 800D get that the 77D does get?
  
  
• What doesn't the 77D get that the 80D does get?

- A

 

[rbielefeld]

Don't really care if a camera has 45 or 19 AF points. For slow moving or static objects, I almost always use the center AF point, half press the shutter and recompose, or I move the AF point manually.

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

When I shoot our birds, I just don't trust AF, I know where they will be and prefocus on the ground at a distance I know the bird will be at, I turn off AF, and then point the camera to the sky, I know the width of my DoF (I'll be using at least f/5.6 or f/8.0), and I'll burst shoot and I'll get several shots perfectly in focus.

For all the commercials about cameras being able to focus on fast moving subjects, I still don't trust it and don't use it. It's not fast enough and not precise enough, if there's a cloud or tree or anything else in the frame it will miss focus, the camera has no idea that I want to focus on the bird, especially not when it doesn't take up much room in the frame, it will focus on the sky, or cloud, or tree, etc. People say that you can use AF tracking by marking a target with the AF point, I don't know what birds people shoot that allows them to use tracking, but I don't find the time to do this, you can barely see the AF markings on most Canon cameras I tried, let alone do it while looking at a bright sky.

Maybe it's because I'm used to rebel cameras, but the chance that I nail a shot on a fast moving subject by relying on the AF is much smaller than prefocus and creating a large enough DoF. Maybe it works for birds flying high in the sky, but for a fast flying bird a few meters above you, it does not work for me, only prefocus works.

I know people shooting cyclists use this prefocus on the ground trick too. It's the only thing that I trust.

AF works wonderfully and is very accurate on flying birds of all sizes and against all sorts of backgrounds. All you need to do is keep your AF point on the bird. I shoot birds in flight and teach others to do so. I use just the center AF point for the most part, sometimes with assist points active around it. I shoot 600mm and often times with a 1.4x tc or 2.0x tc to get my birds large enough in the frame so I can keep my AF point on the bird. Here are some examples out of thousands I have taken. You can go to my website and see many more www.whistlingwingsphotography.com. This is not to brag, but to hopefully convince you to try AF on flying birds. It works and is the only way to go to get consistent results when shooting flying birds IMO

 

[ronaldbyram]

Oh Gee, Should i sell my seven-ty dee? or my Seven dee to buy this seven-ty seven dee? Or just own three?

We got the EOS 7D, then the 70D, and now the 77D. What's next?

Maybe after 1-2 years later when we get the 90D, we can expect a little sister called 88D.
Or we might get a 8D first?

Say no to camera inbreeding.

In seeing these new camera's that Canon is releasing. its making my head hurt trying to figure out the branding Tree structure. Has anyone got a flow chart on what camera falls where?

I have a 60D and a 70D and then a 7D Mk II. I guess the T7I is the Rebel line and the 77D is it a 80D little brother?

 

[mnclayshooter]

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

[Focus and recompose] + [fast glass shot wide open] + [relatively close subject (not macro, but say 5 feet on a standard prime)] is a great way to mis-focus and get a blurry shot. I never experienced that phenomenon myself until I slapped I starting using f/1.4 primes on my 5D3, and that makes sense: the smaller your DOF, the more reframing after focusing will hurt you.

- A

+1. When I use my 50mm prime, I end up with missed focus a lot if I'm shooting indoors without external lighting/flash etc and try to shoot it open. I just got another new puppy and I was trying to focus on her eyes... I missed very consistently... some due to her moving, but she was very sleepy at the time and was mostly still. Once I stopped it down a bit, and lived with higher ISO, I got sharp images.

I will add, I have not completed my AFMA on the 50, as the previous new puppy chewed the hell out of my focus target. But, I don't think that was a very likely source of the missed focus as still lifes have been very sharp.

 

[Sharlin]

In seeing these new camera's that Canon is releasing. its making my head hurt trying to figure out the branding Tree structure. Has anyone got a flow chart on what camera falls where?

I have a 60D and a 70D and then a 7D Mk II. I guess the T7I is the Rebel line and the 77D is it a 80D little brother?

Here you go! (Sorry for not including the D30, technical difficulties)

 

[midluk]

In seeing these new camera's that Canon is releasing. its making my head hurt trying to figure out the branding Tree structure. Has anyone got a flow chart on what camera falls where?

I have a 60D and a 70D and then a 7D Mk II. I guess the T7I is the Rebel line and the 77D is it a 80D little brother?

Here you go! (Sorry for not including the D30, technical difficulties)

I think the solid and dotted arrows from the 50D should swap places. Even though name-wise the 60D is the successor, handling-wise the 7D is closer to the 50D than the 60D is.

 

[AvTvM]

Here you go! (Sorry for not including the D30, technical difficulties)

Thanks, very useful! 8)

 

[drmikeinpdx]

rbielefel: Those may be the best bird photos I've seen, you do have a gift for shooting our feathered friends!

However, I believe you use a 1DXII, which is going to have (one would hope) much better autofocus performance than the Rebel class bodies we are discussing in this thread.

So, has anyone found a trick for getting outstanding autofocus performance from Rebel bodies? My latest is a T5i and I don't find the autofocus to be very impressive.

 

[Josh Denver]

Resisting the urge to get into the troll Mirror vs Mirrorless war. Hmmmm. Two xanax 0.5Mg. Hmmm. Done.

You know the difference between 0.5 Mg (megagram, also known as metric ton) and 0.5 mg (milligram)?

I think they meant they have enough to share, we all know we need it with this group.

As a matter of fact I do. Stand by my words. Mg. Took two tons of xanax to help resist the urge from entering the mirrorless/rebels-are-dead discussion I am a doctor and can prescribe plenty to go around for anti-trollism.

Thanks for the man who answered my questions above. Many.

There are people above asuming the 77D is something that slots between the 70D and 80D based on numerical value of the name. I think that's absolutely not the case with these new cameras, backed by the facts from CR rumored specs and body photos.

The 77D is not a "step-up" "above" say a 70D, it's just like its predecessor, a rebel with a top LCD. Nothing near 70D level.

If anybody handled or shot with the entire Canon line up, you'd know that Canon make their cameras in certain levels that never overlap. A rebel is a rebel size with certain "feel". a 60-70-80D is that level with another feel. A 50D-7D-7DII is again another feel. They all differ in size, build material, size and number of buttons, and of courss features. But even if an old higher level model was out-featured by a lower level model, they're definitely different in class/feel and not interchangeable. Point is:

A 70D is another level compared to the t6s and 77D pictured, these are top-lcd-rebels. For instance the size of the rear command dial is telltale sign of a lower level model. The 70D has a larger body, more weather resistant, better built, it does higher fps, has a stronger 1/8000s shutter, has a large prism vs mirrors, just not something that can be "below" the 77D. It's only below the 80D and that's obvious (70 to 80D you know).

The 77D is a super rebel. Just like the t6s was in the line up but probably more higher end the track hence the name, but we don't know. They might, based on Canon history, be very well both rebels with the same features with only the known differences of the new rebel Top LCD, back command dial and the t6s vs t6i updates.

The name, is absolutely utterly confusing, because it puts it at an "ultimately" higher level camera vs the 70D, while it's not even ultimately higher than the 60D.

Is the 70D still on production or discontinued with the 80D successor?

If so, it's quite logical Canon just wants something between the 800D and 80D. So they had two choices, call it a rebel camera and give it an 850D designation, or call it a lighter version of the 80D, thus the inevitable 75D/77D designation. They went with the later.

In the end, all I care about is the resulting camera. It looks identical to the t6s which I LOVE body-wise. All they need to do to get a customer here is eliminate or reduce moire in video, make it a good, modern, sharp 1080p image, like the 80D at least and all the Nikons, plus give it that 5 axis stabilization. Two things I hope and both seem a surs thing, even on the T7i, in which case if true I'll get that, unless they tempt me with a 77D extra video feature.

One thing I expect and bet on, is that both cameras will get 60p 1080p, and based on that, the 77D will have its video HDR mode at 1080p with manual controls, giving a far higher DR video without sacrificing manual controls or having to drop to 720p (Due to HDR requiring 30 x 2 = 60p frame-rate) as the current t6s.

I bet both will get the new Fine Detail picture style. My favourite PS on new Canon cameras. Can go very low in contrast and gives great balanced colours without overblowing any parameter. Hope they get these little forgotten polishes.

 

[scyrene]

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

These are stunning shots, but it's rather easy to say 'keep the AF point on the bird' and rather harder in practice. *Especially* with a fairly near foreground (i.e. anything but the sky), the camera much prefers to focus on the background, and keeping faster/more erratic birds under the active AF point can be very difficult indeed, especially with super-tele lenses.

 

[Chaitanya]

$899USD body only for the EOS 77D, $1049 w/18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM, $1499 w/18-135 IS STM.

Thanks! So it's roughly a $200 difference when compared to the 80D. I think it fills a gap in feature sets and price points quite nicely.

EOS 80D with 18-135mm USM lens is currently selling for 1499$ vs 77D with 18-135mm STM lens for 1499$.
This kit doesnt make sense at all, when the pricing was for this kit Canon marketing team was surely high on drugs.

 

[dufflover]

I mean if the target market for the 77D don't know anything about pentamirror vs pentaprism, or fps vs overall buffer, or AF points vs AF smarts, then they could get away with making 77D in ways inferior to the 70D. It's not the first time they've tried it (like taking AFMA out of the 60D; "who uses it" right?)

 

[rbielefeld]

rbielefel: Those may be the best bird photos I've seen, you do have a gift for shooting our feathered friends!

However, I believe you use a 1DXII, which is going to have (one would hope) much better autofocus performance than the Rebel class bodies we are discussing in this thread.

So, has anyone found a trick for getting outstanding autofocus performance from Rebel bodies? My latest is a T5i and I don't find the autofocus to be very impressive.

I actually shot with a Rebel the other day; a client's. I helped them set up the camera and then shot with it while they shot with my 1D. I agree, the AF system is not as good, it should not be, but it still is very capable of catching birds in flight. The trick, in my opinion, is to just use the center AF point and then it is your job to keep the point on the bird. If you rely on multiple AF points you will end up with many almost sharp images.

 

[rbielefeld]

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

These are stunning shots, but it's rather easy to say 'keep the AF point on the bird' and rather harder in practice. *Especially* with a fairly near foreground (i.e. anything but the sky), the camera much prefers to focus on the background, and keeping faster/more erratic birds under the active AF point can be very difficult indeed, especially with super-tele lenses.

Yes, it takes practice, but to state, as some have, that the camera's AF system cannot do it is not correct. That was my point. Along with not dismissing AF capability. These cameras are just tools. We need to be able to keep up our end of the deal as photographers.

 

[AvTvM]

well, if we can [almost] have self-driving cars, I don't think it would be asking too much, if after all these years [all] mirrorslappers came with an AF system that can autonomously track a bird in flight and deliver 100% sharp images - at last against empty sky and as long as user manages to keep bird in frame, anywhere in frame that is. Having to keep a tiny, single AF point on a fast and erratically moving target is asking a hell of a lot. Especially when camera boasts having 449, 100 or 500 AF points and 20+ different AF setup paramteres ... rather poor and annoying. Definitely NOT a good tool by *my 2017 standards*. In effect, most promising AF-workflow is still pretty much as it was 25 years ago with film SLRs.

 

[rbielefeld]

well, if we can [almost] have self-driving cars, I don't think it would be asking too much, if after all these years [all] mirrorslappers came with an AF system that can autonomously track a bird in flight and deliver 100% sharp images - at last against empty sky and as long as user manages to keep bird in frame, anywhere in frame that is. Having to keep a tiny, single AF point on a fast and erratically moving target is asking a hell of a lot. Especially when camera boasts having 449, 100 or 500 AF points and 20+ different AF setup paramteres ... rather poor and annoying. Definitely NOT a good tool by *my 2017 standards*. In effect, most promising AF-workflow is still pretty much as it was 25 years ago with film SLRs.

I will respectfully disagree. Why? Because, I like the challenge. When cameras come along, and they will, that can do what you state, I will be not nearly as interested in photographing birds in flight or any tough to capture subject. I like striving to succeed at something that is difficult. It is so much more rewarding when you get good at it and start getting great images on a consistent basis. When cameras get so good that virtually anyone and everyone can get "the shot" it will no longer be photography for mel It will be just shooting pictures.

 

[AvTvM]

point taken.

However, if I have to pay for AF - and I do - then i want it to be "2017 good". If I want(ed) a challenge, testing my manual dexterity, patience, concentration and hand-eye-co-ordination, I can take up golf or learn to play the a vilin or switch AF off and focus manually. ;D

 

[Sporgon]

well, if we can [almost] have self-driving cars, I don't think it would be asking too much, if after all these years [all] mirrorslappers came with an AF system that can autonomously track a bird in flight and deliver 100% sharp images - at last against empty sky and as long as user manages to keep bird in frame, anywhere in frame that is. Having to keep a tiny, single AF point on a fast and erratically moving target is asking a hell of a lot. Especially when camera boasts having 449, 100 or 500 AF points and 20+ different AF setup paramteres ... rather poor and annoying. Definitely NOT a good tool by *my 2017 standards*. In effect, most promising AF-workflow is still pretty much as it was 25 years ago with film SLRs.

I will respectfully disagree. Why? Because, I like the challenge. When cameras come along, and they will, that can do what you state, I will be not nearly as interested in photographing birds in flight or any tough to capture subject. I like striving to succeed at something that is difficult. It is so much more rewarding when you get good at it and start getting great images on a consistent basis. When cameras get so good that virtually anyone and everyone can get "the shot" it will no longer be photography for mel It will be just shooting pictures.

He-he, I was called 'arrogant' and 'selfish' plus some other choice adjectives by a member on CR a couple of years ago for pointing this out ! The march of photographic technology has certainly effected "the shot". Just look at the sport and wildlife images produced to day; of the better ones any one would have been 'the shot" just twenty or so years ago. So the standards of what we consider to be good continue to rise, we become desensitised to anything that is only above average, and yet there are many, many shots from days gone by that are technically woefully inferior to what we can produce now, and yet they are still regarded as great shots. So there's hope for photographic creativity going forward.

On a different note, I don't think anyone has suggested Canon are simply using the xxD moniker as a lure to more sales, people thinking they are getting a "more professional camera", maybe before Canon run out of x0D numbers. I suspect they are because sticking a higher grade badge on a lower model is something the marketing people jumped on years ago. Nikon comes to mind. In the 70's Nikon made their professional camera - the Nikon F, and it was basically carved from granite, and had umpteen ball bearing bearings in it, metal cogs etc, and cost about the price of a half decent car. Their more affordable middle range camera was always Nikkormat. Then in the late 70's the new Nikkormat was called Nikon. Wow, the howls of outrage from Nikon diehards. Worse still, they then brought out a budget camera - the Nikon EM. I think some Nikon diehards committed harry-karry then ! Of course those of us that now use Canon know where this all led in Nikon's fortunes

 

[rrcphoto]

$899USD body only for the EOS 77D, $1049 w/18-55 f/4-5.6 IS STM, $1499 w/18-135 IS STM.

Thanks! So it's roughly a $200 difference when compared to the 80D. I think it fills a gap in feature sets and price points quite nicely.

EOS 80D with 18-135mm USM lens is currently selling for 1499$ vs 77D with 18-135mm STM lens for 1499$.
This kit doesnt make sense at all, when the pricing was for this kit Canon marketing team was surely high on drugs.

prices fall over time.

the 90D will be more. and the cycle repeats. canon never (nor does any company) price a new model with respects to the current on sale price of another model.