Canon EOS 7D Mark II Information [CR1]
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neuroanatomist said:kphoto99 said:neuroanatomist said:If the lens motor was receiving the same power from a 1D X and a 7D, then the AF speed for the lens would be the same with both bodies. But it's not, it's faster with the 1D X.
Could it be firmware trickery on the part of Canon, the 7D delivers the same power as the 1D X, but the 7D just tells the lens to AF slower? Possible, I suppose...but that seems a little too cynical, even for me.
This is something that has puzzled me about saying the lens is doing the AF. The lens does not have the AF points and it does not see the image, so how can "the lens" be doing AF.
As far as I can understand this, the camera is doing the AF and is telling the lens motor to rotate the lens to bring the image into focus. If I am wrong, please point me at something that explains it. I have read the generic description of the AF process, just nothing that would correspond to the notion that the lens is doing the AF.
Focus is achieved by the movement of element group(s) within the lens. Canon EF lenses have a motor within the lens that moves the focusing group. The 1-series bodies are able to drive that motor faster. The camera tells the motor in the lens how far and which direction to move.
So that was always my understanding until I read this in the 400mm mk ii review over at TDP
Quote:
The 400 f/2.8 IS II has received some AF upgrades from the 400 f/2.8 IS I - new dedicated AF algorithms and a new high-speed CPU. How well they work is of course what is important.
So does this not indicate more intelligence in the lens. Anyone know for sure??
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EF lenses are full of electronics. It's not by accident Canon system is named EOS (Electro Optycal System). Neuro is right, and Bryan at TDP also. The camera tells the motor in the lens (via the lens' electronics which include a new high-speed CPU running new dedicated AF algorithms) how far and which direction to move.Stu_bert said:
I've already linked an article dealing with this which includes a significant picture, here it is again:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras
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Referring to new battery issue... 8)
My question, did you guys ever use the "AA" batteries (6 pieces) tray into grip when your LP-E6 run out? Any different in focusing??? Sometimes i use good batteries like Energizer, sometimes I used my Eneloop from 580EXII... Basically I dun feel any lag in focusing...
My question, did you guys ever use the "AA" batteries (6 pieces) tray into grip when your LP-E6 run out? Any different in focusing??? Sometimes i use good batteries like Energizer, sometimes I used my Eneloop from 580EXII... Basically I dun feel any lag in focusing...
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Quite often, actually. Sanyo Eneloop. Never noticed differences in focusing speed or accuracy/precision, but I have a 5D II which, although having a very good center focus point, is not a champion with respect to keeper rate. Pros: you save a lot of money and have a higher capacity vs a single LP-E6 which enables a longer operating time. Cons: you miss the battery info, overall weight is (just a bit) higher and symbol in the LCD display indicates only full (4 bars) and half (2 bars) capacity; after that, the camera switches off without first showing 1 bar or the empty box.sfunglee said:
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tomscott
Photographer & Graphic Designer
I find it really hard to feel Canon have the tech to produce a high performing APC sensor right now. Unless that is the reason they have left a larger time scale between the products.
I really hope that I am wrong. Going from the 7D to 5DMKIII was a massive leap for me. But I cant go back to use a 7D as a second body, that 18mp sensor just doesn't cut it.
Neither can I see the APC sensor matching the current FF in noise quality. It will come just not yet, I would say maybe 3-4 years time.
The whole APC line up seems old and lost to me, the whole range using the same sensor, with just small details of change. I will feel similar with the higher end stuff if they make the 7DMKII with this spec, all using the same AF and a similar MP count.
They need to sort out the whole line of cameras and put it back into order. If the 7DMKII is a pro camera and they replace the 7D with the 70D and do away with the 60D type enthusiast body camera and have the XXXD as it is but with a better sensor, upgrade path is the XXD to the 6D, then the higher end being the 5DMKIII 1DX and 7DMKII.
But then we have two fast cameras both weather sealed same AF similar FPS but one that gives more reach but lesser quality and one with more quality but lesser reach. Then the 5DMKIII for the event/document photographer.
Yet we still haven't got the high MP 1D performer. Not sure what their line up will be, atm it doesnt seem logical.
The 7D was never a cheap camera, it isnt for the average photographer it is for the more demanding prosumer/pro. It will never be aimed at the low end. People that complain on here are aspiring photographers who maybe cant justify the higher price tag, you are not the sector Canon are after. It was the same with the 5DMKIII, yet it is a hugely popular camera.
Just my 2p
I really hope that I am wrong. Going from the 7D to 5DMKIII was a massive leap for me. But I cant go back to use a 7D as a second body, that 18mp sensor just doesn't cut it.
Neither can I see the APC sensor matching the current FF in noise quality. It will come just not yet, I would say maybe 3-4 years time.
The whole APC line up seems old and lost to me, the whole range using the same sensor, with just small details of change. I will feel similar with the higher end stuff if they make the 7DMKII with this spec, all using the same AF and a similar MP count.
They need to sort out the whole line of cameras and put it back into order. If the 7DMKII is a pro camera and they replace the 7D with the 70D and do away with the 60D type enthusiast body camera and have the XXXD as it is but with a better sensor, upgrade path is the XXD to the 6D, then the higher end being the 5DMKIII 1DX and 7DMKII.
But then we have two fast cameras both weather sealed same AF similar FPS but one that gives more reach but lesser quality and one with more quality but lesser reach. Then the 5DMKIII for the event/document photographer.
Yet we still haven't got the high MP 1D performer. Not sure what their line up will be, atm it doesnt seem logical.
The 7D was never a cheap camera, it isnt for the average photographer it is for the more demanding prosumer/pro. It will never be aimed at the low end. People that complain on here are aspiring photographers who maybe cant justify the higher price tag, you are not the sector Canon are after. It was the same with the 5DMKIII, yet it is a hugely popular camera.
Just my 2p
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ichbins said:
So, one the one hand I'm definitely wrong, but on the other you can't see that I am definitely wrong. Can't have it both ways.
A USM motor causes movement by setting up an oscillation. The amplitude of that oscillation could be a function of available drive voltage.
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Regarding the integrated versus non-integrated grip, could Canon produce some with and some without? If they produce enough and sell enough this might offset the additional production costs of making two separate units as well as charging a little more for the integrated grip. It would be nice to offer a choice of configuration similar to what you have for cars, but not to the full extent. I think Canon has done something similar to this in the past with a film camera by having a better add-on grip but can't remember which one.
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ddashti said:
And so what is your point?
The non-Pros can go into the xxD line or the xxxD line depending on their preference.
Canon's line up makes a lot of sense to me.
At the top you have the 1D? line. 1Dx sits at the top with the split of the 1D and 1Ds lines doing the branching between Studio and ISO/Performance.
next level has been a 5D/7D split 5D for FF / portraits (more of a mini 1Ds) and the 7D aimed more at sports / landscape and their top Crop Sensor.
Heck in the Canon World, know a lot of pros who went with the 5DMKII and the 7D
Makes sense that we have a 1Dx and perhaps a 1DxS coming out to continue the performance / larger mega pixel split , and then 1 level down a 5D MKIII and a 7D MKII or 7Dx perhaps.
For those little more price conscious, there is the 6D or the 60D, or 70D perhaps.
Would not surprise me that Canon would look at the original 7D see it as a solid, but not quite pro camera and decide to step it up to really make it more of a Pro - King of the Crop in their line up on par with the 5D line just slightly less since it is crop and then let the Prosumers focus on the xxD line or have the 6D
Really seems to me that the 7D is being split into two flavors, the 6D which is really just a small update to the 7D and then the 7Dx or 7D MKII which is more of the pro upgrade to the 7D
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This is the kind of news I am lloking to hear! I like the thought of it being a baby 1dx. Canon, keep the 7D line epic, yet make it epiccer with an integreated battery grip! Maybe the 70D would be a little like the current 7D, and the 7D mk II would be something like the replacement of the 1d MK IV? Although, hopefully the camera doesn't cost more than 2750... If so, tis time to man up with the credit cards!!!
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Maui5150 said:
There's an uproar from many forum members over one copy, that's what makes it hilarious. It's a small chance that they do go live with that copy. From a marketing perspective, it seems like they'd go backwards in that sense. Bringing back the era of 1D and 1Ds lines but with new names and APS-C instead of APS-H.
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I don't want to put it down too much simple but let's try:
P=Vi
where "P" is power,"V" is voltage and "i" is the current. (Units of measure [Watt], [Volt], [Ampere] )
if we keep "i" costant, we have:
11,1 * i > 7,6 * i
e.g. 11,1 V * 1A = 11,1 W > 7,6V * 1A = 7,6 W
The result is that a 11,1V battery can spin the lens motor phisically faster than a 7,6V battery,
if there are no differences in circuits, I mean, amplificantions, cuts, stabilizations etc etc etc, and obviously the lens must be designed to accept a certain range of potentials.
Things are not so simple, but this is only for exemplification purposes.
P=Vi
where "P" is power,"V" is voltage and "i" is the current. (Units of measure [Watt], [Volt], [Ampere] )
if we keep "i" costant, we have:
11,1 * i > 7,6 * i
e.g. 11,1 V * 1A = 11,1 W > 7,6V * 1A = 7,6 W
The result is that a 11,1V battery can spin the lens motor phisically faster than a 7,6V battery,
if there are no differences in circuits, I mean, amplificantions, cuts, stabilizations etc etc etc, and obviously the lens must be designed to accept a certain range of potentials.
Things are not so simple, but this is only for exemplification purposes.
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icemanx said:
The stepping motors have a set resistance on the windings. It does not matter which camera or battery you are using.... the resistance stays the same.
The pertanant equation is P=E^2/R, or Power = Voltage times voltage divided by resistance. I don't know what the resistance is, so we can not compute what the power is, but we can calculate the ratio of power using an 11.1 battery against a 7.6 volt battery. We get (11.1*11.1)/(7.6*7.6) or 2.13.
A camera using an 11.1 volt battery has twice the power to drive a lens stepper motor than a camera with a 7.6 volt battery....... but remember that this is only one factor in AF speed.... there is how accurate the af sensor is, how fast the camera's computer can interpet the results, the search algorithm, and probably a dozen other things that I am unaware of. The battery voltage is just one part of a very complex system.
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sfunglee said:
When I've used alkalines, I've noticed a drop in performance. Alkalines have a continuous voltage drop over their lifetime, so you only really get "good" performance within the first few minutes. When I use Eneloop or Imedion LSD batteries, performance is FAR better, nearly or as good as the Canon batteries, and consistent until the last few minutes before the batteries become depleted. One thing I have noticed is that the Imedions (which I actually like a lot, more so than Eneloops, but the problem occurs with both brands) is that continuous shooting is not quite as fast. With the Canon battery at full charge, continuous shooting (assuming a fast enough shutter) is very good, very consistent, and I can keep shooting at about 2-4fps even after the buffer is full. With Imedion/Eneloop, continuous shooting tends to start lagging after a few seconds of sustained continuous, and buffer-full performance is not quite as good.
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pierlux said:
Well, I kind of clarified it. There is still the resistance issue. Depending on the resistance, the amount of voltage or amps would have to change. I mean, if we assume 2ohms of resistance, at a 3400mA current, voltage would have to drop to 6.8V. That changes your power to 23W, not 36.7W, over that 8-second period. I don't really know what the resistance is. It could be much more, or much less. At 4ohms resistance, to draw 3400mA, you would need 13.6V...since the battery is 11.1, current couldn't be that high. Maximum current flow would be 2775mA with 4ohm resistance at 11.1V, or ~31W. Without knowing how power is drawn, how it may be transformed, what resistance may be involved, etc. (none of which we really could know without dissecting a 1D X and 7D, or getting ahold of official detailed specifications) we can't really know exactly how much power is drawn by either camera in heavy duty AF/tracking/continuous dual-card writing activities.
All we really can know is that, for any given resistance, an 11.1v battery can supply more power than a 7.6v battery, even if they have the same charge capacity.
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