Canon EOS 80D Talk [CR1]

[9VIII]

Sorry about that folks for feeding the troll. Won't do that again.

I'm now running on the theory that Dilbert is an alt account created by the admin to increase post counts.

hahah!

Can I put that up against ishawhatever being neuro's alter ego?

Nope. They both have unique posting histories. ishdakuteb was having conversations with Neuro back in 2012 (diagnosing AF problems), that would be an extraordinary psychological experiment if Neuro was consistently building an alter ego from that far back.

Really, Dilbert, you just bring out the worst in people. I suggest you follow the lead of great people like Neuro and Jrista, and build a life for yourself somewhere else.

 

[Don Haines]

At the moment, Canon are the leader in MP for FF but have long been behind Nikon/Sony for APS-C MP count. Maybe there is some "mine is bigger than yours" going on?

It wouldn't surprise me. Despite claims and protestations on this website, in the real world more megapixels sells cameras.... after all 34 is better than 20, I'll get the better camera with 34....

It works quite well in other industries too. For instance, horsepower sells cars.... I NEED!!! a 290HP engine for my morning commute in traffic.... I don't care if a senior citizen in a walker is moving faster than the traffic, I NEED MORE POWER!!!!!

 

[Maximilian]

...
Ok, back to a normal base of argumentation...

You're wrong and I'm right.

There, does that make you feel better?

If that's seriously your opinion then I am felling really sorry for you
and you really should consider professional help.

But to me your reaction tells me that I caught you. :

Do you have (or had) children?

Looking at your posts per time you don't.
And if you don't then this would be a better hobby than just trying to convince others here from you opinion.

And as I stated somewhere else here yours is occasionally true but NOT always.
And you should not only bring your own arguments and then quietly move on to another line of argument if someone has the right arguments against you (like you do now with this children question).

But now I'll end up here because it seems a waste of time making you understand this.

And my apologies to all the others for getting OT about argumentation.

 

[TheJock]

I'm all for new stuff. I think Canon is continuously coming out with new stuff.

I have a 70D and it is just a year old, if that. I take delivery of a 5D MKIII on Monday. I'm real excited. Now, the thing is that both are considered by some to be "Long in the Tooth". To me they are not and I see amazing photos posted by people here all the time with both cameras.

The problem is I keep hearing people complain that Canon is constantly sitting on its corporate hands and never coming out with anything new.

I disagree. In fact, a person would be hard pressed to stay constantly current with the tech that Canon keeps releasing when it comes to cameras, lenses, and speedlites, etc. A person would need loads of cash to do so.

Maybe some of you professionals out there are making gobs of money and can constantly play the "keep up" game (Only for you professionals it isn't a game.), but for the regular Joe or Jane... heck most of us still don't know how to effectively use the "old" stuff we have.

That's a personal problem.

I think Canon does a fine job.

SNAP!!!
I also have the 70D and I have just obtained the awesome 5DIII two months back. The high ISO IQ on the 70D is impressive as hell for me, and I can now compare it to the 5DIII which was a bit of a dream camera until my wife surprised me on my birthday in July.
I think the 80D is going to have to be spectacular (which I doubt as the 70D was actually ground-breaking on release) or it'll just be a normal/standard upgrade, I doubt that there will be two ground-breakers in a row!!

 

[tomscott]

I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
hey, when you buy a 2000$ camera with one or more 800$ lenses.. what is the problem when you need a few harddrives of a few To for.. say 250 $..
and. what is the problem to buy a decent top-computer (core i7, 16 gb ram, 256 gb ssd) that costs 1200 $ (without screen) ?

Many have a total of 4000 or 5000 $ photo equipment.. and complaining about buying 300$ - 10 To storage ? hey, come on guys...

If you are not happy with that, stay with a 8 Mpx point and shoot.. and only jpg..

The issue is that when a professional comes home with thousands of photos, transfer and processing speed is of critical importance. I've read that a lot of people actually store every single photo that they keep, some of them with redundancy, and are basically perpetually buying hard drives.
So double the file size could mean wasting eight hours a week waiting for transfers/processing instead of four, and spending $1,000 a year on hard drives instead of $500 a year (I have no idea what the actual figures are, but hard drives haven't come down in price for the last five years, so I know the situation isn't good).
From a business perspective large files are a horrible thing.

But that doesn't change the rest of my points, that we already have great cameras for professionals, and a 34MP 80D would be something entirely new, and there is a market for it.
People around here just like to imagine that Canon is going to put the 5Ds sensor in every body from here on out so that they can rage about it.

Why wouldn't these people put their "keepers" on DVDs instead of continuously buying hard drives? I just don't understand. I've got many photos from years ago, but I don't need the access to them that a hard drive provides. Stored as tiffs on a DVD makes more sense.

DVD layers degrade over time, in 10 years if a client comes back to you and says I want X image and they want you to so this and that with it, and your disc has degraded what are you going to do then? Its not a reliable source, also how many events do you do that you can fit everything on one 8gb dual layer disc… Split that lightroom library over multiple discs? How long will it take to copy all that over so the library is useable? probably an hour DVDs should be purely a last resort not a main storage solution. Add blu ray to that how long do 50GB discs take to write… HOURS!!!!

I work for a local newspaper and they do exactly the same thing, they needed an image from 1996 and the disc had degraded…that image is now gone along with everything else that the newspaper reported between January and July of that year.

Its different when you are shooting professionally you are responsible for the images. If you are shooting 3000 images per wedding will you go through and delete all the less than ideal images, from experience it takes an age, add 2-3 hours on your workflow. Importing and making 1-1 previews even on 400 images can take hours! Regardless of your machine.

This year at Silverstone classics I shot 150gbs of images over a 3 day stint. I was lucky enough to go traveling for 5 months earlier last year and shot 2tbs of images… all of this on a 5DMKIII it adds up. Your milage may vary… But I spend as much time behind a machine sorting than I do shooting.

Im a wedding photographer primarily and shoot motorsport on the side as well as other subjects. I can tell you now doubling the image size is not always great on a workflow basis, fantastic for IQ but not so much for everyday. Computers are not increasing in performance dramatically not doubling anyway. I typically will invest 5K in a rig every 5 years, in the last 5 years I have amassed 24tbs of images. To have local storage with a back up and then have an offsite back up incase of fire robbery or environmental disaster. So a server grade 4tb hdd is currently £150 thats £2700 of storage for 72tbs. That takes time to back up for data redundancy. Add 5k for the rig then the cost of the software per year its a large investment to still live comfortably. Switch out two cameras every 5 years as shooting that amount of image wares them out… another 5-6k. If you double the MP you double the storage needs so double that storage amount. It starts to get difficult to keep up with it and its gets worse as the years role on.

This weekend I backup up my local drive with an external 5tb USB 3 it took nearly 2 days to transfer 4.6tb thats just data from April to present.

There are ways and means, my drives are backed up constantly so I don't have to worry about it. but my offsite backup is hard work, you can't transfer files like that over the internet it needs to be moved and set to backup and it can take days, thankfully my two backups are the same design so I just hot swap them.

If your a casual user your problems are much easier to manage maybe a new 2-4tb drive per year, when you are shooting like this you need another level to ensure data responsibility.

Somebody said earlier in the thread about seeing a 5DSR and a Pentax image side by side at A3… well A3 has been easily achieved from back in the 10mp 40D days. You won't see any difference they are designed for high end output… spend 20k on a MF camera for A3 prints… Just ridiculous.

I generally print maximum of A1 and the 5DMKIII does this great with a little enlargement. 28mp is probably my ideal size for the time being, not too much of an increase in file size but just about A1 natively.

This is a rough estimate for costing for me over a 5 year period.

7.5K for rig and storage, 2k for 2 servers, 5k for two cameras. £14.5k Here in the UK we get the VAT back so -20% off that @2.9k its still £11k so over a 5 year span thats about £2.5k a year.

Add maybe 1-2 lenses a year on upgrades repairs or replacements (£2k), £45 a month for CC at £540 (£2700 for 5 years) £350 a year to insure the gear (£1750) £14.5k. Another 11k.

So over 5 years the costings for me could be £22k it sounds a lot and it is, especially in a world where being a pro is hard work.

This is pretty rough. Obviously not everything needs to be updated, servers for example. In the past I have used my older Mac Pros as servers, I have a 2006 and 2008 which have 6 4TB drives in each. Lens updates aren't that recent, more like every 2-3 years as they get a lot of hammer, but repairs certainly. I would say this is a pretty normal estimation for most full time pros.

Just to give a little insite to why the MP race can dramatically increase costs. Going from the 5DMKIII to a 5DSR could cost me an extra £2700 in storage for the same amount of time. Thats an extra 2 weddings I have to shoot to make that money back. In a 5 year span maybe its doesn't sound too bad but time is money.

 

[Maximilian]

Why wouldn't these people put their "keepers" on DVDs instead of continuously buying hard drives? I just don't understand. I've got many photos from years ago, but I don't need the access to them that a hard drive provides. Stored as tiffs on a DVD makes more sense.

Hi CanonFanBoy!

Personal experience:
When I wanted to access some data from a just two years old CD ROM I was looking through a pure clean clear piece of plastic.
No more reflective layer, no more readout possible. :-[ :'(

Luckily the data was not so important to me and, okay, that was back in the late 90ies and things have changed a lot since then but I've learned my lesson.
==> I'll give optical devices a max of 5 years and in addition want to have a backup on some other type of media.

Of course todays DVDs are chemically more stable than the CDs back then but it shows you not to rely on such media.

Edit: That's the reason why you can buy those super expensive glass DVDs.These are printed and metallised and not chemically changed. Those can last for decades - if you don't drop them

 

[9VIII]

Glass DVD's? This is news to me (good news, that is).

If they could get a permanent disk medium to run in a Bluray Player it might be worth the effort to send a USB stick away for etching some data in stone (family photos etc...).

 

[Etienne]

...
Would the majority of xxD users really want 34 MP ? I'd be surprised. Half makes me wonder if Canon isn't putting a little misinformation out there.

You're about to go out, packing up your things and you look at your 70D. It's a 20MP camera but the phone in your pocket has twice the number. Half the image size, 10 times the bulk. You walk out the door and the 70D gets left behind and remind yourself not to spend $hundreds/$thousands when your phone makes pictures that are twice the size, making it easier to crop for selfies, etc.

Rinse and repeat 70D with T5i, etc.

How do you sell a relatively huge DSLR with 20MP or less to an audience that has 30MP+ in their phone that fits in their pocket?

Dilbert when youve left your 70D at home and taken your 30MP Smartphone and you see that elusive Kingfisher and realise its just a dot on the screen then you remember why you should have taken the 70D.

Sorry, but are you going to pack a 70D with you on the way to work? On the way to the shops? And so on. People are adjusting. And you want someone to buy a 20MP camera to produce a 1MP image for instagram that a bit of cropping on a 30MP phone camera will do just as well?

I understand what you're saying and your argument but it isn't me that you're arguing with. It's the "unwashed masses" that are already doing well what you're having trouble with here:

Ive been part of an experiment at our camera club taking one photo for 365 days on my iPhone 6 I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw it in the bin because I cannot frame the shot I want.

Sounds like you need to learn how to photograph with your iPhone 6 better It took me a while to get to know how to get the best out of the iPhone 5S that I have.

I'd love to have a DSLR with me every time I walk out the door. But that isn't practical. I'm trying to work out if having a m4/3 is or if I need to be happy with an iPhone. And it is me that needs to adjust the way I see and shoot to match.

Now consider that people that don't have DSLRs. They walk into a store and see a $1000 camera kit with a camera that has fewer MP than their camera. They pick it up, look through the view finder and think "meh" and walk away. There's no "wow factor."

When DSLRs had 18MP and phones had 8MP, selling a DSLR was an easy sell. Now that cameras have 40MP, it is more difficult. That is unless you want to tell someone that they need to spend $2000 to get a DSLR kit with multiple heavy lenses (thrown in a cheap Tamron 150-600) so they can zoom but still have fewer MP than phones.

Who knows, maybe Canon only see the increase in MP as a way to get everyone with 18MP or less as a way to buy a new camera for bigger, better pictures.

For years I took my Canon DSLR (different models over the years) with me every time I left the house, only in the last year have I stopped, and now I only bring my 5D3 if I'm pretty sure I'm going to use it.
Different strokes. I like using my DSLR. I have not yet found another format that I like nearly as well.

 

[cosmopotter]

Let's face it, the MP war will continue just like horsepower wars do in cars. It's a pissing match. You will rarely use the full power, but it is there if you want it, so camera sensors will continue to grow. I saw someone mention that more MP = more noise. That's true until they figure it out and it's NOT true any more. The advent of Canon's 50MP sensors and now 120/240MP sensors that they have been touting recently along with the 4,000,000 ISO video camera are all technologies that will trickle down into new consumer products and professional DSLR's.

I also agree that Nikon and Sony have leapfrogged Canon in may respects recently, but do you think Canon will take that lying down? No way. Canon tends not to say "me too" when they bring new products to the market but add at least a couple of features that are unique enough to keep people coming back - HD on 5D MkII, dual pixel AF on 70D. In today's market, you can't be the best at everything but you have to be the best at something.

 

[hubie]

That's why the 7D2 got pretty mixed reviews...would have been much better with say 16 MP and a better noise performance....when will they learn?

The only people that want more are the people that don't know any better!!!...

George.

lol, the 7DmkII has good noise performance - better than the Sony A6000 and similar to 5DmkIII... given that it's an APS-C sensor camera it's excellent yet of course there is room to develop.

 

[tomscott]

The 7DMKII is good but it can't touch a 5DMKIII. Its about 3/4 - 1 stop better than the 7D.

The resolution is for crop more pixels on the subject. The camera is a sports and wildlife camera and in reality you can't always fill the frame hence the high pixel density. The 7D is pretty good for a crop camera.

 

[privatebydesign]

That's why the 7D2 got pretty mixed reviews...would have been much better with say 16 MP and a better noise performance....when will they learn?

The only people that want more are the people that don't know any better!!!...

George.

lol, the 7DmkII has good noise performance - better than the Sony A6000 and similar to 5DmkIII... given that it's an APS-C sensor camera it's excellent yet of course there is room to develop.

I didn't say any of that!

 

[Sporgon]

Let's face it, the MP war will continue just like horsepower wars do in cars. It's a pissing match. You will rarely use the full power, but it is there if you want it, so camera sensors will continue to grow. I saw someone mention that more MP = more noise. That's true until they figure it out and it's NOT true any more. The advent of Canon's 50MP sensors and now 120/240MP sensors that they have been touting recently along with the 4,000,000 ISO video camera are all technologies that will trickle down into new consumer products and professional DSLR's.

Sony have figured it out.

On DxO (shoot me now), Canon's G3X, which has a 20MP 1" sensor from Sony beats the 700D (which has a APS-C sensor) in 3 out of 4 scores (the 700D is only better in low light sport - or high ISO.)

Perhaps you'd also like to point out that the Canon G3x with the 1'' Sony Exmor R sensor beats both the Sony and Panasonic offerings using the same sensor.

 

[Maximilian]

...

Sometimes people are too intelligent for their own good.

: : :

 

[jeffa4444]

The future is colorimagery & DR

 

[ishdakuteb]

Can I put that up against ishawhatever being neuro's alter ego?

Dilbert,

1. If you want to mention my nick, call it out loud, do not be a COWARD/LESS COURAGE (About changing it to ishdawhatever). If I want to mention about you, I call straight out your nick, not DILWHATEVER.

2. I am not Neuro, a professional person, so do not expect me to act/be as nice as Neuro. Neuro talks to you in different ways, but I do THROW my images to you face to prove that you skill is not up to talk about camera techniques when you do not even have enough ability to control your camera. Do I have this ability; the answer is “YES”. Posted images are proofs.

3. With other members, if they do not like my respond(s), I will delete them right away (All ready happen in the past). But for you, this will not happen and you know the reason why.

4. 9VIII mention that, “I had a conversation with Neuro in 2012”… <-- This is only FEW MONTHS after I bought my first DSLR and start learning. Where your photography levels are now? Since the day of registered to be the forum’s member? Still THE SAME? (Even though, you have been using DSLR much longer.)
Note: My goal is to learn with a minimal budget; therefore, I am willing to find all alternate ways to perform any tests and I am not looking for precision since to me, “fail is fail”.

5. If you think reporting ADM to block my post will change the way I am talking to you (See attached image), you are DEADLY WRONG…

6. Like I always say, if you want me to stay away from you… either of the following will work:
a. REQUEST ADM, again, to delete my account since I always challenge about posting images (You have my words that I will not re-create another account to TRASH your skills after the deletion.), or
b. Show your respect to the Canon forum. There is no reason, that you are being here and keep talking the same topic over and over again, and keep bashing Canon (Sound not NORMAL, at least to me), or
c. Learn to capture an image in a right way, if not better than mine (Sorry, I do not see this will doable though. That is true since I am keep learning while you keep bashing Canon.)
Until now, all your images are still GARBAGE, according to my photography vision. <-- Disagree about this, show the forum your new images with your new Sony camera (Which you told us that you will buy it, unless you are lying. And keep in mind, do not go out there and steal since I have followed number of great landscape photographers.)

After all, I am patient though, waiting for 3 days to respond to your post... always patient, just like I learn everything...

 

[verysimplejason]

So Dilbert actually taken a picture? I've never seen him post one in all my time in Canonrumors. I hope I can see one from him...

 

[Big_Ant_TV_Media]

The 7DMKII is good but it can't touch a 5DMKIII. Its about 3/4 - 1 stop better than the 7D.

The resolution is for crop more pixels on the subject. The camera is a sports and wildlife camera and in reality you can't always fill the frame hence the high pixel density. The 7D is pretty good for a crop camera.

i see your very 1 dimensional its not just a sports/wildlife camera

 

[PropeNonComposMentis]

Can I put that up against ishawhatever being neuro's alter ego?

Dilbert,

1. If you want to mention my nick, call it out loud, do not be a COWARD/LESS COURAGE (About changing it to ishdawhatever). If I want to mention about you, I call straight out your nick, not DILWHATEVER.

2. I am not Neuro, a professional person, so do not expect me to act/be as nice as Neuro. Neuro talks to you in different ways, but I do THROW my images to you face to prove that you skill is not up to talk about camera techniques when you do not even have enough ability to control your camera. Do I have this ability; the answer is “YES”. Posted images are proofs.

3. With other members, if they do not like my respond(s), I will delete them right away (All ready happen in the past). But for you, this will not happen and you know the reason why.

4. 9VIII mention that, “I had a conversation with Neuro in 2012”… <-- This is only FEW MONTHS after I bought my first DSLR and start learning. Where your photography levels are now? Since the day of registered to be the forum’s member? Still THE SAME? (Even though, you have been using DSLR much longer.)
Note: My goal is to learn with a minimal budget; therefore, I am willing to find all alternate ways to perform any tests and I am not looking for precision since to me, “fail is fail”.

5. If you think reporting ADM to block my post will change the way I am talking to you (See attached image), you are DEADLY WRONG…

6. Like I always say, if you want me to stay away from you… either of the following will work:
a. REQUEST ADM, again, to delete my account since I always challenge about posting images (You have my words that I will not re-create another account to TRASH your skills after the deletion.), or
b. Show your respect to the Canon forum. There is no reason, that you are being here and keep talking the same topic over and over again, and keep bashing Canon (Sound not NORMAL, at least to me), or
c. Learn to capture an image in a right way, if not better than mine (Sorry, I do not see this will doable though. That is true since I am keep learning while you keep bashing Canon.)
Until now, all your images are still GARBAGE, according to my photography vision. <-- Disagree about this, show the forum your new images with your new Sony camera (Which you told us that you will buy it, unless you are lying. And keep in mind, do not go out there and steal since I have followed number of great landscape photographers.)

After all, I am patient though, waiting for 3 days to respond to your post... always patient, just like I learn everything...

Well said Sir. I 2nd that !
(They keep deleting my account also, but thru the magic of the internet... Oh look, I'm still here : )