Canon EOS 80D Talk [CR1]

[Luds34]

...
Would the majority of xxD users really want 34 MP ? I'd be surprised. Half makes me wonder if Canon isn't putting a little misinformation out there.

You're about to go out, packing up your things and you look at your 70D. It's a 20MP camera but the phone in your pocket has twice the number. Half the image size, 10 times the bulk. You walk out the door and the 70D gets left behind and remind yourself not to spend $hundreds/$thousands when your phone makes pictures that are twice the size, making it easier to crop for selfies, etc.

Rinse and repeat 70D with T5i, etc.

How do you sell a relatively huge DSLR with 20MP or less to an audience that has 30MP+ in their phone that fits in their pocket?

This is a joke right? Whatever megapixel number is put on a cell phone is pure marketing BS anyway. Aka, they are waaaay too high and the realistic effective MP is much lower. So you get the worse of all worlds, large file sizes and crappy actual resolution and detail. Not to mention ergonomics, but I won't waste time/energy there.

Absolutely not. People with phones don't care about image size, just how many their phone can store. Now, where can I plug in a USB micro stick for an extra 256G of memory?

...

Those chunky DSLRs that don't have nearly as many MP would seem to be a prime candidate for elimination.

You seem to contradict yourself, even in your own post. First you basically say, a 20 MP is a tough sell when people have 30 MP phones (implying megapixels matter to average consumer). Then you follow up and say people don't care about image size. And then back to eliminating DSLRs that don't have enough MP.

Which is it?

Like I said before, MP on phone is a gimicky marketing thing, catching some uneducated consumers that more must be better. However, the reality is that I think a majority of (non photography enthusiast) adults, without really knowing the technical reasons why, are going to know that a "real" camera is going to be capable of taking much better photos then their cell phones.

 

[Luds34]

Count me out then! The 70D does not need more pixels you won't even see with typical prosumer lenses used with this class of cameras, and more toy features, but better high ISO quality (ISO-1600 is a marked step down from the 60D - whatever the reviews say -, and this only for a 2MP increase!)

Respectfully disagree. As an owner of a 70D and multiple cameras that had the same old 18MP sensor in it, I'd say one of biggest differences (besides the awesome DPAF) was the high ISO ability. The 70D can shoot ISO 6400 (obviously not ideal) but trying to pull that off on my M or old T2i just fell apart badly. And it's less the noise, it's the color and blue fringing in the corners, etc. Nope, the 20 MP 70D sensor was a long overdue step up from the one in your 60D.

Your experience does not necessarily contradict mine. It is possible that the 70D is capable of ultra high ISO output and does so better than the 60D. I wouldn't know because in either case the quality is too low for my uses. However, I was saying specifically that ISO 1600 quality is worse on the 70D than on 60D and I do care about that since it is the auto ISO maximum I use and routinely have to fall back to in low light to keep the shutter speeds I need.

I'll concede at ISO 800 and 1600 it is really close. My feel has been though that the newer 20 MP sensor is better at those ISOs as well. However, noise patterns, etc. can be somewhat subjective so it could just be personal preference on both of our parts.

 

[ishdakuteb]

If the G3X can offer close to equivalent IQ to the T6i (I think it was this model) on a much smaller sensor (albeit from Sony), why is more (and thus smaller) megapixels necessarily bad?

But as you and others are saying "bad", it effectively means that there is no confidence in Canon to produce a better (in terms of IQ) sensor than they already do and especially not one with smaller pixels.

Have a think for a moment about what it is you're really saying about Canon cameras and how many others are effectively saying the say thing (here and elsewhere.)

Do you think that sort of sentiment would bother Canon?

1. How do you know that Canon G3X's sensor is made by Sony?
2. Have you bought your new Sony A7R II yet? Still no confidence in Sony helping you to produce better images (after number of years taking crap images with Canon cameras)? (Note: I did copy, paste and modify your phrase )
3. Sony has acquired number of sensor companies, camera companies... Not that Sony, itself, performs RDT&E...

Note: If you want to see more images that I manage myself to captured with Canon gears (landscape, journalism, and portraits), let me know... You still remember and know why I learn landscape right?

 

[roxics]

It needs 4K video and a headphone jack. It's the only semi-pro DSLR they make with a flip out screen.

 

[FramerMCB]

I find it somewhat amusing how many people posting on this forum, and not just to this particular story, are spending time bashing CANON and their products - especially ones that have not even been introduced but are merely...rumors.

The old adage still rings true today, "the negative Nellie's will always be louder than the people who are happy." I have a response for those of you who are chronic complainers: switch camera brands! And go complain on some other brand's forum site.

I like Canon products. I like how they have continued to offer a significant number of Camera models with different feature sets geared towards a broad range of consumers that also have a broad range of shooting styles/subjects - from pros, semi-pros, thru hobbyists of all levels. Etc. That all have vastly different shooting/equipment needs. Canon also continues to improve and grow/refresh their lens line-up. Keep in mind that technological advancement/improvements typically require a serious amount of capital investment, and with Canon's broad range of products, I think they do a commendable job with their line-up.

Just because I like Canon doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on individual products they release. But I have never been upset with a Canon product I have purchased - whether new or used. I welcome, and look forward to the next model in their XXD line-up, whatever it is.
Caveat: I own a 40D and more recently purchased a 7D Mk I (from a friend who upgraded to the Mk II). So, I'm not an equipment-heavy photographer either.

 

[LonelyBoy]

For those people it probably does produce pictures that are equally good, perhaps even better. But those types of cameras have a fairy small window of opportunity to produce decent quality, photographically speaking, when compared with a 'proper' camera. Any reasonably capable person who understands the important principles of photography would be able to produce excellent images for the "taken on an iPhone", but you'd have to choose your moment according.

I think you misunderstood me - I meant I'd rather use a 6mpx DSLR than a 12 (or 18) mpx smartphone. Precisely because, yes, it forces you to a given focal length and decidedly sluggish shutter.

 

[9VIII]

The old adage still rings true today, "the negative Nellie's will always be louder than the people who are happy." I have a response for those of you who are chronic complainers: switch camera brands! And go complain on some other brand's forum site.

Agreed.

We've actually had a bit of success with that, Jrista hasn't posted in a while, and I'm pretty sure he's happily snapping pictures with a Sony camera now.

On the up side, this forum is popular enough that compared to most other forums the level of discussion here is fantastic, at least from a technical point of view.

 

[Don Haines]

...
Would the majority of xxD users really want 34 MP ? I'd be surprised. Half makes me wonder if Canon isn't putting a little misinformation out there.

You're about to go out, packing up your things and you look at your 70D. It's a 20MP camera but the phone in your pocket has twice the number. Half the image size, 10 times the bulk. You walk out the door and the 70D gets left behind and remind yourself not to spend $hundreds/$thousands when your phone makes pictures that are twice the size, making it easier to crop for selfies, etc.

Rinse and repeat 70D with T5i, etc.

How do you sell a relatively huge DSLR with 20MP or less to an audience that has 30MP+ in their phone that fits in their pocket?

Dilbert when youve left your 70D at home and taken your 30MP Smartphone and you see that elusive Kingfisher and realise its just a dot on the screen then you remember why you should have taken the 70D.
Ive been part of an experiment at our camera club taking one photo for 365 days on my iPhone 6 I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw it in the bin because I cannot frame the shot I want.

Funny you should post this now......
I walked outside yesterday and saw a fox. I snapped the first picture with my phone, then went back inside for my Canon and took the second picture.

 

[Sporgon]

For those people it probably does produce pictures that are equally good, perhaps even better. But those types of cameras have a fairy small window of opportunity to produce decent quality, photographically speaking, when compared with a 'proper' camera. Any reasonably capable person who understands the important principles of photography would be able to produce excellent images for the "taken on an iPhone", but you'd have to choose your moment according.

I think you misunderstood me - I meant I'd rather use a 6mpx DSLR than a 12 (or 18) mpx smartphone. Precisely because, yes, it forces you to a given focal length and decidedly sluggish shutter.

I'd be the same. But there are people who prefer to use their smart phone in a casual situation, and find the results for small size viewing just as good. I know, my eldest daughter is one of them. When I see pictures she's taken on the beach posted on Facebook I have to ask whether it was taken on her Canon or iPhone.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

For those people it probably does produce pictures that are equally good, perhaps even better. But those types of cameras have a fairy small window of opportunity to produce decent quality, photographically speaking, when compared with a 'proper' camera. Any reasonably capable person who understands the important principles of photography would be able to produce excellent images for the "taken on an iPhone", but you'd have to choose your moment according.

I think you misunderstood me - I meant I'd rather use a 6mpx DSLR than a 12 (or 18) mpx smartphone. Precisely because, yes, it forces you to a given focal length and decidedly sluggish shutter.

I'd be the same. But there are people who prefer to use their smart phone in a casual situation, and find the results for small size viewing just as good. I know, my eldest daughter is one of them. When I see pictures she's taken on the beach posted on Facebook I have to ask whether it was taken on her Canon or iPhone.

Photos on the beach sun? Yeah.

Photos in dark places?
The superiority of full frame and APS-C sensors is evident in any display size.

But there will always be people who think that cell phone photos "good enough".

 

[Maximilian]

Ive been part of an experiment at our camera club taking one photo for 365 days on my iPhone 6 I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw it in the bin because I cannot frame the shot I want.

Sounds like you need to learn how to photograph with your iPhone 6 better It took me a while to get to know how to get the best out of the iPhone 5S that I have.

Oh great! This means you no longer have the need for any kind of FF Exmor sensor, particularly a Sony A7RII?
Good to know so I (we) don't have to ask you any more when we'll see results from it.
Please dare to share some of your 14 stop lanscape pictures from your 5S. Thank you.
[/sarc mode]


Otherwise, dilbert, please come back to a normal base of argumentation.
The way you turn around others arguments and the way you bypass direct counterargument or even ignore them really is annoying.
Thank you! :

 

[ishdakuteb]

Oh great! This means you no longer have the need for any kind of FF Exmor sensor, particularly a Sony A7RII?
Good to know so I (we) don't have to ask you any more when we'll see results from it. Please dare to share some of your 14 stop lanscape pictures from your 5S. Thank you.
[/sarc mode]

[sarc mode]

Does not matter what camera he is using... His images will not be better than my images, not needing to mention number of great members in this forum, captured with my phone or my point and shoot camera (of course not for printing large)... And my phone is neither iPhone nor Samsung android...

Dilbert... want to prove me wrong? Show me your new images with your new Sony A7R II if you already bought one... or you can show me how you beat this image with you iPhone 5S. Below image was captured last Sunday at Mono Lake (I guess that you will probably be there in this fall foliage season...)

[/sarc mode]

Note: None of my landscape image is HDR... I like how the way that you are using that "[/sarc mode]"... so please allow me to steal it...

 

[ishdakuteb]

no... i am picking at you, so i completely ignore about that...

The topic of this thread is rumors about the EOS 80D. Please kindly contribute to the topic at hand rather than drifting. If you want comments on your pictures, please post them in an appropriate thread where they belong.

no, i do not want comments to my images in this case... my main point is to CHALLENGE you. there is a great eastern sierra photographer in this forum, Dan Mitchell, so if i want to learn, i would ask him directly.

in this case, i will not since i am PICKING at YOU... and again... your images look like CRAP to me even though i am new to landscape photography...

 

[Don Haines]

The camera you have is always the best camera to use.

Let me know when you're working in an office, catching the Tokyo subway to work every day in peak hour and packing a 1DX plus lens array with you, just in case a moment arises that you don't want to miss. Of course in the minute it takes you to get our your camera, everyone else around you has already pulled out their phone and uploaded the moment to instagram/facebook.

This is a point that many of us ignore..... for the masses, the cell phone IS good enough. It has great advantages in cost and convenience, but at the expense of flexibility and quality..... We should never forget that we participants in this forum are NOT the typical camera user.... the typical user is snapping away and posting unedited cellphone snaps on facebook.

The cell phone, as comes "out of the box" is a terrible camera with worse software. Add some apps that allow you to control it properly and add in a decent editor and the cell phone can perform surprisingly well. I have seen some amazing images taken with them. Above all, it is a tool. Use it to it's strengths and it works well.
Use it to it's weaknesses and it is garbage.

 

[Don Haines]

back to topic....

34Mpixel APS-C camera?????

The 70D was a huge improvement over the 60D, but how does Canon do this again?

I can see the 80D being similar in ISO performance to the 70D, despite the smaller pixels.... I can easily see it being an improvement over the 70D (and 7D2) for read noise.... I would not be in the least surprised if it had DR over 13...

Of course, it will keep touchscreen, tilt/swivel, and WiFi.... but what else will change? will we finally see built-in RF control of external flashes? Wireless charging? Will there be a "facebook" button?

 

[beforeEos Camaras]

back to topic....

34Mpixel APS-C camera?????

The 70D was a huge improvement over the 60D, but how does Canon do this again?

I can see the 80D being similar in ISO performance to the 70D, despite the smaller pixels.... I can easily see it being an improvement over the 70D (and 7D2) for read noise.... I would not be in the least surprised if it had DR over 13...

Of course, it will keep touchscreen, tilt/swivel, and WiFi.... but what else will change? will we finally see built-in RF control of external flashes? Wireless charging? Will there be a "facebook" button?

might have duel cpus as well this seems to be the trend to increase the bandwidth requirements
needed for higher megapixels focus points etc

 

[Ozarker]

I'm all for new stuff. I think Canon is continuously coming out with new stuff.

I have a 70D and it is just a year old, if that. I take delivery of a 5D MKIII on Monday. I'm real excited. Now, the thing is that both are considered by some to be "Long in the Tooth". To me they are not and I see amazing photos posted by people here all the time with both cameras.

The problem is I keep hearing people complain that Canon is constantly sitting on its corporate hands and never coming out with anything new.

I disagree. In fact, a person would be hard pressed to stay constantly current with the tech that Canon keeps releasing when it comes to cameras, lenses, and speedlites, etc. A person would need loads of cash to do so.

Maybe some of you professionals out there are making gobs of money and can constantly play the "keep up" game (Only for you professionals it isn't a game.), but for the regular Joe or Jane... heck most of us still don't know how to effectively use the "old" stuff we have.

That's a personal problem.

I think Canon does a fine job.

 

[9VIII]

Sorry about that folks for feeding the troll. Won't do that again.

I'm now running on the theory that Dilbert is an alt account created by the admin to increase post counts.

 

[Ozarker]

I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
hey, when you buy a 2000$ camera with one or more 800$ lenses.. what is the problem when you need a few harddrives of a few To for.. say 250 $..
and. what is the problem to buy a decent top-computer (core i7, 16 gb ram, 256 gb ssd) that costs 1200 $ (without screen) ?

Many have a total of 4000 or 5000 $ photo equipment.. and complaining about buying 300$ - 10 To storage ? hey, come on guys...

If you are not happy with that, stay with a 8 Mpx point and shoot.. and only jpg..

The issue is that when a professional comes home with thousands of photos, transfer and processing speed is of critical importance. I've read that a lot of people actually store every single photo that they keep, some of them with redundancy, and are basically perpetually buying hard drives.
So double the file size could mean wasting eight hours a week waiting for transfers/processing instead of four, and spending $1,000 a year on hard drives instead of $500 a year (I have no idea what the actual figures are, but hard drives haven't come down in price for the last five years, so I know the situation isn't good).
From a business perspective large files are a horrible thing.

But that doesn't change the rest of my points, that we already have great cameras for professionals, and a 34MP 80D would be something entirely new, and there is a market for it.
People around here just like to imagine that Canon is going to put the 5Ds sensor in every body from here on out so that they can rage about it.

Why wouldn't these people put their "keepers" on DVDs instead of continuously buying hard drives? I just don't understand. I've got many photos from years ago, but I don't need the access to them that a hard drive provides. Stored as tiffs on a DVD makes more sense.

 

[Maximilian]

...
Ok, back to a normal base of argumentation...

You're wrong and I'm right.

There, does that make you feel better?

If that's seriously your opinion then I am felling really sorry for you
and you really should consider professional help.

But to me your reaction tells me that I caught you. :