bf said:M6 in a m10 body sound good, a little too good for this year but I guess it will happen next year. It will be M3 in M10 body!
why? they shoved the DPAF sensor,etc into the SL2 and sold it for 549.
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bf said:M6 in a m10 body sound good, a little too good for this year but I guess it will happen next year. It will be M3 in M10 body!
Talys said:Mt Spokane Photography said:I find it disappointing that the "M" series firmware appears to be P&S based, many DSLR features like Tethering are missing.
Wow, I didn't realize that. I could have sworn that I read in an M series manual that it supported wifi tethering. Kind of kills it for all sorts of uses... that sounds like a decision that doesn't make any sense to me, at the price points that M's are.
neuroanatomist said:dak723 said:Primes are for the very serious few who demand narrow DOF - and that is the FF DSLR photographer.
Primes offer more than just narrow DoF. They can be smaller and lighter than zooms covering their FL. They can have faster apertures than zooms covering their FL. Often, they are smaller/lighter and faster.
Consider the M22/2...22mm f/2 on APS-C doesn't exactly deliver shallow DoF at 'typical' subject distances, but it's much smaller than any M zoom, and lets in 4 times as much light as the M18-55/M15-45 at 22mm...and 8 times as much light as the M11-22 at 22mm.
Also, where can I find a TS-E zoom? A 5x macro zoom? How about even a 1x macro zoom?
Sorry, but to believe that primes are only about narrow DoF is quite narrow minded.
dak723 said:But I still think that the target market for the M system (as well as crop) is for those who want 2 or 3 zooms that cover all their focal length needs, and the market for primes is pretty much the FF crowd.
neuroanatomist said:However, I'll also point out that the 50/1.8 is perennially the top-selling Canon lens on Amazon, and I rather suspect most buyers of that lens are not FF shooters. It's popular because it's small, light, fast...and most importantly, cheap.
sure. I'm sure an 11, 13, 15, 17 and 22mm prime combined will be smaller and lighter than my 11-22mm EF-M any day of the week. :neuroanatomist said:dak723 said:Primes are for the very serious few who demand narrow DOF - and that is the FF DSLR photographer.
Primes offer more than just narrow DoF. They can be smaller and lighter than zooms covering their FL.
neuroanatomist said:8 times as much light as the M11-22 at 22mm
neuroanatomist said:dak723 said:Primes are for the very serious few who demand narrow DOF - and that is the FF DSLR photographer.
Primes offer more than just narrow DoF. They can be smaller and lighter than zooms covering their FL. They can have faster apertures than zooms covering their FL. Often, they are smaller/lighter and faster.
Consider the M22/2...22mm f/2 on APS-C doesn't exactly deliver shallow DoF at 'typical' subject distances, but it's much smaller than any M zoom, and lets in 4 times as much light as the M18-55/M15-45 at 22mm...and 8 times as much light as the M11-22 at 22mm.
Also, where can I find a TS-E zoom? A 5x macro zoom? How about even a 1x macro zoom?
Sorry, but to believe that primes are only about narrow DoF is quite narrow minded.
rrcphoto said:sure. I'm sure an 11, 13, 15, 17 and 22mm prime combined will be smaller and lighter than my 11-22mm EF-M any day of the week. :neuroanatomist said:dak723 said:Primes are for the very serious few who demand narrow DOF - and that is the FF DSLR photographer.
Primes offer more than just narrow DoF. They can be smaller and lighter than zooms covering their FL.
btw, my samyang 12/2.0 is bigger than my 11-22mm
the primes being smaller than a zoom is a myth that is only true if you assume that one prime will do the job of the entire zoom range. which is not usually the case at all.
the EF-M 22 is small because it is close to the registration distance of the EF-M mount (18mm) which allows for a more classic tessar element design. deviating from that increases the size, and lens complexity.
rrcphoto said:Canon needs a prosumer normal zoom ( the 15-45 is a consumer grade zoom) well before they need primes.
also .. even though the 50mm is cheap, most people stick with their kit zooms. meaning in terms of popularity, nothing comes close to normal kit zooms as far as popularity.
then you have the fact that with a small mirrorless body, you are exposing the sensor (or sensor stack to be exact) to the elements upon each lens change, since unlike a DSLR, it's exposed all the freaking time.
one of the nice things about my clip filters for the M that I like is that the sensor is no longer full time exposed to the elements.
rrcphoto said:neuroanatomist said:8 times as much light as the M11-22 at 22mm
I'm sorry when we get down to under 250g's of weight for a lens, it's pretty meaningless IMO. Unless you're trying for pocketability, then we need one of those lens cap f8 lenses.
I do find the 18-150mm surprisingly off balance and heavy on an M - so it's not really weight as it's only 300g - but more where the weight is distributed.
the EF-M's are all very lightweight and small lenses especially for their optical capabilities - it's really hard to argue that primes would be much better outside of subject isolation - and even then with the MFD's of the 18-150 and also the 11-22 if you can't isolate a subject well, there's a problem.
rrcphoto said:IMO primes are necessary if only just to give creedance to the camera line, more than what would be required with the EF-S lenses.
Canon should do a quick and dirty 25,28,35,50,85 EF-M lineup of moderate aperture. the lens designs aren't that complicated and canon historically has come out with these quickly.
sorry, the entire theory that primes can be used in leu of zooms is silly and argumentative.neuroanatomist said:Who would assume that a prime can do the job of an entire zoom range? Sorry, that's just being silly and argumentative.
As for the prime beling smaller, compare the 100/2 or 200/2.8 to a 70-200/2.8, and tell me that those primes are smaller because they have a close to the registration distance for FF and thus can use a classic tessar design. Laughable.
neuroanatomist said:Sensors are easy to clean. If you're afraid of doing so, you'd best stick with a G-series or S-series P&S.
neuroanatomist said:Would you suggest that the 'moderate aperture' for those primes should be f/4 or f/5.6, consistent with your argument above? Sorry, that's not going to happen. They'll be f/2.8 or faster, or there would be no real reason for their existence, and no real market for them.
Care to try again?
rrcphoto said:sorry, the entire theory that primes can be used in leu of zooms is silly and argumentative.
rrcphoto said:Stating "They can be smaller and lighter than zooms covering their FL." is obviously not the case, because you simply can't cover their FL with one prime. You're the one that stated it. put up or...
rrcphoto said:and I thought we were talking about the M's here. Not canon's L zooms. Internal zoom endurance engineering and focusing and IS creates complexity.
rrcphoto said:neuroanatomist said:Sensors are easy to clean. If you're afraid of doing so, you'd best stick with a G-series or S-series P&S.
oh good grief.. now who's being silly and argumentative. and who wants to clean a sensor in the field? what an idiotic comment as a response.
rrcphoto said:seems you took silly and argumentative to extremes here.
rrcphoto said:So perhaps you should take a chill pill and try again as well.