Canon EOS R5 firmware update coming soon, RAW light to be added? [CR2]

adrian_bacon

EOS M6 Mark II
Aug 12, 2020
67
70
I need real estate brother. These old eyes.. Main display is a BENQ PD3200U 32” 4K surrounded by 2 BENQ PD2700Q 27” 2K. PC is a i9 9900K @ 5.1Ghz, 512NVMe OS drive, 2TB NVMe work drive, 10TB storage w/2 10TB external backups, EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 video, and 64GB memory.

It’ll run anything well and pushes video and photos pretty well. Depending on how things go I may end up with an AMD next time, but for now the 9900K is doing fine. It’s another expensive hobby.

I hear ya. I’m the same way. Super beefy video card with a pile of monitors attached to it and a stack of storage. I just like being able to unplug and take the MacBook Pro with me so when I’m out and about, I still have a decent computer.
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,051
2,304
Thats a hell of a setup

What do you make of the BenQ monitors?
Im using whats technically a gaming monitor, but is a great 4k IPS panel besides that.
Im kinda in the market to switch it out for either a pair of 27-32" monitors tho.


The 32 is beyond excellent, the 27s are very good. The 32 is shared with my mac setup so I can share keyboard/mouse between the two systems (press two buttons to switch back and forth) It's one of the extra features I really appreciate. It was color calibrated out of the box but I put a Spyder on it and it was true - no adjustment required. I was shocked.

I'd previously had the twin 27s so when I got the 32 I ordered stands and set up the panels. It's overkill for me but I love it anyway. Main editing is in the 32 4K, on the left I keep the DxO loupe panel with RAW thumbnails, and on the right I keep my export folder. For video it's the same except for the programs used.

It's also great for gaming. I'm primarily a FPS guy but the 60Hz is fine. I'm not trying to kill the world, just have a good time. Twenty years ago maybe, but it's true what they say about reflexes and age.

I've owned Asus and Dells in the past and I put the BENQs at the same level (for the 27s) and above for the 32 4K. It's a sight to behold IMO.
 

adrian_bacon

EOS M6 Mark II
Aug 12, 2020
67
70
Is all the processing still within the laptop?

for photos and video? I use Adobe LR and Premiere/After Effects which supports using the external video card to accelerate things. I’m sure some things happen on the laptop, but most of it happens on the video card. With my particular current set up, I can edit a multi-cam in 4K with a full stack of effects with no previews or proxies, and when it comes time to render it out to a file, it does it way faster than real time. If I had just my laptop, that doesn’t happen.
 
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adrian_bacon

EOS M6 Mark II
Aug 12, 2020
67
70
I really like this guys approach - How can I make it work, not how does it not work.


exactly. a Lot of people make a lot of hard and fast rules about what will and won’t work without actually checking to see if it actually makes a difference in the end product. On paper, or in theory, it might be better, but more often than not, in real life with the end result delivered to a client, the difference was negligible at best, or, that hard and fast rule was valid 10 years ago when all the captured video was 8 bit 4:2:0 at 24Mbps And our computers chugged when dealing with it, but don’t chug any more.

it often pays to revisit and re-evaluate things whenever something changes As there just may be something that suddenly makes your life easier. At least do it when you get a new camera or a new editing computer. It’s amazing how many people don’t do that. It really does pay to spend a little time up front mapping out best use scenarios and settings for a given camera and workflow for your type of work instead of just blindly requiring things like All-I encoding.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS R5
Feb 14, 2018
1,223
1,078
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Given what he started with I thought the result was pretty impressive. For those of us who occasionally ‘miss a setting‘ when chasing a target it‘s good to know that our opportunity to salvage our mistake is there - especially if the mistake isn’t so severe..

In terms of raw file processing, and given the exposures are the same, you don't get any improvement in highlight recovery compared to the previous cameras. Improvements in dynamic range go to the shadows.
 

Ramage

EOS R5
CR Pro
Aug 27, 2019
484
965
In terms of raw file processing, and given the exposures are the same, you don't get any improvement in highlight recovery compared to the previous cameras. Improvements in dynamic range go to the shadows.
I am reserving judgement until I can have my normal workflow restored. The DNG converter may give the same results that the fully integrated LR/PS results give but that remains to be seen by me.

Even if the dynamic range is crazy good I will likely continue to shoot the same way when I am not 100% confident in the shadows or the highlights. Safety shot 1 for shadows safety shot 2 for highlights:)
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,051
2,304
you don't get any improvement in highlight recovery compared to the previous cameras

Which previous cameras?

Without having my camera in my hand to do a side by side, it would appear that from this rough experiment that it did a tremendous job. I'm going by what my eyes are telling me and my very limited experience. You obviously know more.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS R5
Feb 14, 2018
1,223
1,078
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Which previous cameras?

Previous-gen Canon or other brand camera with 14-bit sensor ADC.

Without having my camera in my hand to do a side by side, it would appear that from this rough experiment that it did a tremendous job. I'm going by what my eyes are telling me and my very limited experience. You obviously know more.

It doesn't matter if the camera is in your hand or not. It's how modern digital sensors work and how digital conversions work. There's no 'highlights recovery' as such, if we're talking about raw files. Different cameras may generate different views in EVF and LiveView and different jpegs which gives an illusion of greater or smaller highlights recovery. The illusion comes from how the camera maps its raw 14-bit range into 8-bit jpeg that you initially see in preview.

But given the same exposures, you'll be getting roughly the same amount of information in the highlights from different cameras so you don't get any significant gain in so called highlights recovery.
If you go from 14-bit to 16-bit sensor, you get more information in highlights, but the R5 still has a 14-bit sensor.

More interesting reading is here

And you can see where the highlight clipping occurs in different cameras here https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PTC.htm (it's the sharp drop of the curve near 14 stops).

From the practical point what matters is signal-to-noise ratio in the shadows, and the shadows is where the dynamic range improvements are noticeable the most.
 

Quarkcharmed

EOS R5
Feb 14, 2018
1,223
1,078
Australia
www.michaelborisenko.com
Even if the dynamic range is crazy good I will likely continue to shoot the same way when I am not 100% confident in the shadows or the highlights. Safety shot 1 for shadows safety shot 2 for highlights:)

When I shoot action, I rely on in-camera metering and compensate if needed (in M mode most of the time). For portraits and/or with controlled light, it's also manual shooting and I'm trying to get a good looking exposure in the camera preview.

Otherwise (for landscapes, where it matters the most) I use histogram and ETTR and never 'expose for highlights' - this term creates a lot of confusion and misconceptions and is, in fact, a bad practice. Exposure for highlight may only be justified if you're in a great hurry.
 

Ramage

EOS R5
CR Pro
Aug 27, 2019
484
965
Previous-gen Canon or other brand camera with 14-bit sensor ADC.



It doesn't matter if the camera is in your hand or not. It's how modern digital sensors work and how digital conversions work. There's no 'highlights recovery' as such, if we're talking about raw files. Different cameras may generate different views in EVF and LiveView and different jpegs which gives an illusion of greater or smaller highlights recovery. The illusion comes from how the camera maps its raw 14-bit range into 8-bit jpeg that you initially see in preview.

But given the same exposures, you'll be getting roughly the same amount of information in the highlights from different cameras so you don't get any significant gain in so called highlights recovery.
If you go from 14-bit to 16-bit sensor, you get more information in highlights, but the R5 still has a 14-bit sensor.

More interesting reading is here

And you can see where the highlight clipping occurs in different cameras here https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PTC.htm (it's the sharp drop of the curve near 14 stops).

From the practical point what matters is signal-to-noise ratio in the shadows, and the shadows is where the dynamic range improvements are noticeable the most.
I think @Bert63 was simply trying to be nice about the shots I posted. I know they are snap shots at best and I am OK with that.

Was not my intention to start a debate on highlight recovery.
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,051
2,304
I think @Bert63 was simply trying to be nice about the shots I posted. I know they are snap shots at best and I am OK with that.

Was not my intention to start a debate on highlight recovery.

Mine either.

I appreciated you posting the examples very much. The rest came as bit of a surprise.
 

jam05

EOS RP
Mar 12, 2019
344
181
What I really want is to be able to save my settings to the card is in my other Canon camera. I have sent a letter to Canon support and called them. Hope to get this. Can't even do it from any of the apps. Can't share the R5 with anyone until I can save my settings.
 
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derpderp

Pixel Peeper
Jan 31, 2020
167
203
is it possible they can lower the sale price by about $1k with this firmware update? lol. I really want this camera, but I don't think its really financially feasible at this point.

lol if you cant afford it then don't buy it.
 

Baron_Karza

EOS RP
Feb 17, 2019
343
412
It's a 'hardware' issue, not a 'firmware' issue. Whenever u have a container that produces heat, you have to have a vent for the heat to escape and a 'fan' to help it dissipate the heat and keep the container cool or at least cooler........think of a home attic......they all have a vent at the very least.....most also have a fan. Common sense, science......not 'firmware'!

what do you think causes the camera to flash an overheating warning light and then shut down the camera from recording? A little tiny man inside it pulls a switch? If all the physical sensors are working correctly but for some reason the camera stops recording at cooler temps than designed to stop at (or start back up again after cooling down), then firmware could be the issue.
 

adrian_bacon

EOS M6 Mark II
Aug 12, 2020
67
70
Previous-gen Canon or other brand camera with 14-bit sensor ADC

I'm not entirely sure Canon is using a 14 bit ADC. Their raw file might be 14 bit, but I've been mapping out their sensor response for the last couple of generations of their cameras (starting with the 80D) and even though it's raw, there appears to be a bit of a toe where exposure gently rolls off a little before settling into the noise floor. There's a couple of extra stops of visible information down there, though it's really noisy. The same goes for the upper end. The sensor stops being linear at ~10,000, and there's more tonal information encoded all the way up to 16383 that isn't linear. It appears that the ADC might actually be 16 bit and they're smooshing it into a 14 bit container.
 

Starting out EOS R

EOS R5 - RF24-105mm F4L, RF70-200mm f2.8L
Feb 13, 2020
294
314
I promise that I'm not just picking you tube clips that are positive, this one is someone I have started to follow as she is quite funny and honest with no frills.

In this video, she is completely honest that she is a stills shooter and doesn't compare any other brand as she is Canon through and through. There are no lists of specs or technical details, just an honest review of using the R5 in her job over a week. she's also used the ability to transfer images via wifi that seems to be useful.

 
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SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,246
If you're about raw files, it may be a bit misleading statement; they can be neither strong nor weak. This recovery depends on the initial conversion to jpeg or to interim format when displayed in an editor. If the initial/default conversion is conservative and cuts a lot of highlights, you'll see a lot of 'recovery' when editing raw files. But it's all about initial digital conversion - how much of the full DR gets squeezed into the jpegs.
Canon RAW files are know to contain that additional, "extra bit" of recoverable highlights despite the red channel showing its full capacity utilisation. (255).
sure, it may be editor specific. however with LR or DXO PL I typically am able to recover "clipped" highlights past the initial 255 reading. so call it what you like. what I am saying is that it seems that R5 files are no longer that flexible. It is likely that Canon is "squeezing" every single bit out of available DR now.. fine..
 
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