Canon executives address third-party RF future
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
Sigma seemed to have no concern for size and weight for SLR lenses.
Mirrorless seems to be a different story.
Upvote
0
Of course... I can only speak for myself and everything I write are my opinions and no one else's. I try to base them on personal experiences from practice. I try not to give myself the right to speak on behalf of others unless I am authorized to do so
Figures on paper are mostly just a rough guideline for me, and only when I try something in practice can I speak about it publicly. In the space of the Internet, there is an incredible amount of nonsense that is spoken (written, whatever...) without any real basis, and even the facts are sometimes distorted without any criteria.
Upvote
0
Third party EF lenses works on R cameras. Third party EF to RF adapters works on R cameras.
I don't see were encryption may lock out anyone as today, it seems there's everything to have a third party lens natively working on RF (and Samyang, Meike and Viltrox in fact did it, before Canon discouraged them to sell their lenses).
Upvote
0
Sure, sure. You can argue ad infiniutm that there are benefits to the customer for allowing 3rd party lenses.
My point has been and remains that unless and until there are benefits to Canon for allowing 3rd party lenses, it won’t happen.
Perhaps, if the Meike RF 85/1.4 AF actually appears, it will indicate that Canon perceives benefit. That could be licensing fees, or it could be that unlike Viltrox (another Chinese company) Meike has told Canon they’ll ignore a cease-and-desist letter and it’s not worth Canon’s effort to pursue legal action that perhaps would be worth doing so against Sigma or Tamron.
Upvote
0
The speed that Canon changed their firmware from a simple timer to measuring actual temperature would indicate that Canon was responding quickly with a solution. They then tweaked it again with a different algorithm, and then adding codecs and finally adding an option for the internal temperature to rise above original limits. That's 4 updates for the 3 video modes that had limitations. It would be hard to believe that this wouldn't have been just to "fix it anyway" without external poor reviewer criticisms... but perhaps you are correct.
I am intrigued when the R5c was conceived as a new product to be developed. The mechanicals are the same (sans IBIS and adding the fan) and adding cinema menus. It would be more difficult for me to state that the R5c was based on external criticism but it certainly put to bed any overheating claims. Only Canon knows how many have been sold but I suspect not a high % compared to the R5.
Upvote
0
The EF protocol isn't encrypted and was reverse engineered for 3rd party use. All the 3rd party lenses that are AF use the EF protocols on adapted R mount. Canon may not have liked it but couldn't do anything about it (now or then).
I believe that the RF protocols are encrypted to prevent reverse engineering. Simple solution to control the faster and better RF communication (both ways) between lens and body. Canon controls which lenses can use it.
Upvote
0
Everyone in here should in reality be a customer and want what’s best for themselves, not for Canon. No one here in their right mind should be willing to pay more for less just to benefit Canon.
They may see no negative effect of their decisions right now, but things can change fast and when they do they may lose their advantage.
Upvote
0
Obviously. If you think that’s what I’m suggesting, you need to read more carefully. People should certainly do what is best for them without regard for Canon’s business. But some people are of the mistaken belief that Canon should be doing what is best for them ans individuals, and cannot seem to grasp that Canon is going to do what is best for their own business.
Ahh, yes. Kodak! Nokia! A common battle cry, among people who can’t accept that Canon understands this business far better than they do.
“Canon has poor low ISO DR…Kodak! Nokia!” Sales were unaffected.
“Canon is late to mirrorless…Kodak! Nokia!” Canon is now the #1 mirrorless brand in Japan, and possibly globally.
“Canon is blocking 3rd party AF lenses for the RF mount…Kodak! Nokia!” See the trend? Believe me, blocking 3rd party lenses is not the hill Canon will die on.
Upvote
0
I am curious, what (if any) is the hill Canon might die on w.r.t. their consumer camera offerings?
Upvote
0
I'm not sure there is one in the near term. In the long term, the whole ILC market might die on the hill of declining revenue due to smartphones. Up until 2012 P&S cameras accounted for more revenue than ILCs, but the P&S market was killed off by smartphones.
ILC revenues have been fairly stable over the past decade, but underlying that is a combination of DSLR unit sales of dropping hard, MILC unit sales being completely flat (there was no 'rise of mirrorless' as some state, there have been 3-4 million MILCs sold per year for the last decade), and increasing unit cost of MILCs. Those data are nicely summarized by CIPA. The problem is that continued cost increases become untenable at some point, and if mirrorless sales remain flat that means a zero-growth market...something shareholders abhor.
Most smartphones have had only wide lenses, but that's changing. The iPhone 14 Pro has a short tele lens (77mm FoV equivalent), rumor has it the top iPhone 15 will have a periscope lens reaching 150mm, and the iPhone 16 will be even longer. I suspect that's going to lead to another round of ILC market erosion, as the 'I want more zoom' crowd finds that they don't need an ILC to get it. At some point, revenues stop supporting continued development. Not a slam on Sony, but possibly they get out first (well, not first...Olympus already divested their cameras as Sony has a history of doing with other lines). If Canon dies on that hill, they may be the last to go...but gone is gone.
Upvote
0
The counter cry is to use Apple. Rarely the first but always with a great follower product and a closed ecosystem with solid profits.
They don't have a folding phonebut will have a good one if they decide to compete in that segment.
Upvote
0
It's not about not understanding what you are suggesting, it's just that no consumer would care what's best for Canon. If closing their system and overcharging for their gear is best for them that's fine but any customer in their right mind wouldn't support them since it results in them missing out on great gear and them having to pay more for less.
So losing their advantage equals going completely bust to you? lol. Nikon was previously the strong number 2 with no chance of ever moving until Sony came along, so there's no reason why in the future that Sony couldn't take number 1 and knock Canon down to number 2. In fact it could be a great thing to happen since Canon would be forced to be more about the customer again.
Upvote
0
You can petulantly stamp your feet (or whine on the internet, which amounts to the same thing), or you can try to understand the rationale behind what’s going on. Personally I prefer the latter approach. For example, if I’m hoping a brand makes a particular product, but that product does not seem aligned with that manufacturer’s business strategy, that informs my buying decision. Obviously, you are free to keep on going with the former approach. Hope it keeps working for you as well as it has so far!
Canon seemingly has closed the RF mount to 3rd party AF lenses, and they do charge premium prices for many lenses. Yet Canon has gained mirrorless market share to the point they are now the #1 MILC brand domestically, and possibly globally. The majority of camera buyers support Canon in the most direct and meaningful way possible – by purchasing their products.
Do you really believe that none of their customers —which is the largest group of camera buyers in the world— are in their right mind?
The reality is that Canon’s products have and continue to appeal to the majority of the ILC-buying market. You are free to disagree with their decisions. You are free to complain about their strategy. But suggesting that the majority of camera buyers are crazy for buying Canon products merely makes you look like an ass.
Upvote
0
Or I could just continue to not act like I'm part of some mindless cult that can't admit the fault of a corporation who couldn't care less about myself or any other customer and only their profit? Sure, I could sit in a park feeding the ducks like those who are unable to comprehend the difference between understanding a motive and questioning it, but I don't have the time to join you sorry.
Those mirrorless bodies that sold so well and got Canon that market share were often the M series bodies which were very popular and sold a ton. Now that the M mount is pretty much dead, it will be up to the new APSC RF cameras to try to continue or maintain that momentum. Even looking at the BCN post from the other day, the 1st and 3rd top selling lenses are third party lenses only available on E Mount and soon to be Nikon Z. They will continue to be #1 globally as long as they can continue to convert people over to RF but for anyone looking for value and price to performance will often look elsewhere due to the closed mount and higher priced options (if outside the US, their pricing within the US is quite fair).
Upvote
0
Why doesn't someone who thinks canon is a bad company making bad decisions simply sell their rf products to B&H or somewhere and use the store credit to buy Sony or Nikon products? I mean, I don't think such people have the time sit on a park bench feeding ducks... It's probably because they are spending to much time under a wooden bridge waiting to gobble up someone crossing the bridge, right?
Upvote
0
It’s funny that the only pictures you seem to have shared here include a duck in a pond and a park bench, so I guess you’re talking from personal experience. You seem to have plenty of time to post long, pointless diatribes.
As I said, you’re welcome to your opinion. Personally, I’ll wait to see what the data show. Currently, the data show that most buyers just buy a camera and the 1-2 lenses bundled with it. The number of people who go on to buy additional lenses is a small fraction of the user base. The issue looms large in your mind because you are a part of that small minority, but as far as the overall market goes, it’s a tempest in a tea pot.
Upvote
0
Perhaps you are using a little hyperbole in your assertion... If ~half the current installed base is Canon then there are a lot of mentally ill people in the photography world.
You could say the same about Apple users with that mentality as well.
People buy brands for different reasons. Value for money is one of those reasons and technological edge etc. The luxury handbag market is something I can't comprehend with dramatically increasing prices and less leather let alone the lofty French manufacturing quality vs the quality of Chinese products being "equivalent" when made to order.
Sony has certainly taken market share in the industry - mostly at the expense of Nikon and the other players are very small comparatively even with some great products.
Nikon have some compelling product/pricing for Z9/Z8 which I hope will keep them profitable and in the future market which is good for everyone.
With Canon's full entry into the R mount ecosystem with 12 bodies and 35+ RF lenses with more to come, there are less reasons for Sony to takeover Canon as #1... let's see the CIPA figures when they are released and we can discuss further
Upvote
0
ashmadux
Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
Because...that would be a very, very stupid, feelings-first decision that often screws oneself over. Most don't have those resources either..so should they just keep quiet? Pff.
Am I wrong for complaining about canon's lack of mid range lenses? Nope..neither is the other 100 folks that think the same.
Sometimes you say things for the matter of the conversation, or just to highlight a point that seems to go over others heads. Responses like "err, but they is the market leadrz" is useless / pointless.
I personally try to plan for the worst case scenarios, and i'll be investing in another system as soon as budgets allow. I don't like to feel like I dont have options when im spending thousands on bodies and lenses. I dont own a single RF lens..I was hoping that would be the 50mm 1.4, but we know what happened there (hint: doesn't exist!).
But that's just me, and to each is own. We have a right to be pissed at canon, and all the silly excuses of why we shouldn't be, well, just hush. IT's just silly.
That said, I'm not getting rid of my canon gear because it has a purpose. Expecting others to do the same just based on particular frustrations is nonsense. Customers (and potential customers) get to complain, so do us all a favor and get over it.
Upvote
0
Who is saying you are? Complain all you want. Why am I even telling you that, it's all you do here.
What is asinine is claiming that Canon's business will suffer because of something you personally don't like. Stating your concerns, even being pissed, that's fine. But what, do you think that if you and those 100 other folks stop buying Canon, Canon will care? To that I'd say they haz some bad hubris (but then I'd wonder how many of them even know what that means without googling it). Canon sells close to 3 million cameras a year. Even if 100 times those 100 people stop buying Canon, that's 0.3% of their customers. That's less than the noise in their estimates.
So do us all a favor and get over yourself.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
