Canon Interview: EOS R1 is the true flagship

[Tony5787]

I'm sure the R1 will get an FPS boost at some point like the R3 did. The 195fps is fun once in a while, but I too would like 60fps, as you said, there are times for some creative outputs.

I recently shot some golf with friends, and I did the 195 for their swings off the tee... they loved it.

Yeah that’s what I’m hoping for too, I feel like the hardware has to be capable of it especially with the coprocessor. Hopefully we’ll see some nice firmware updates for the R1 like the Z9 has seen since its release. I’ve actually never used the high speed burst mode on the R3 though, every situation where I’d want that kind of speed I also need tracking lol

 

[SwissFrank]

> That being said, it does beg the question of what\'s next for the prosumer.

About 5 years ago, Canon patented a sensor with two charge wells for each pixel, and the ability to change between them instantly across the sensor. This allowed the following tricks:

1) global shutter
2) electronic ND filter up to about 10 stops
3) single-exposure HDR, nearly doubling the dynamic range

For global shutter, the camera simply switches from bucket 1 to bucket 2, then takes its time reading out each pixel\'s bucket 1. Bucket 2 is ignored.

For electronic ND, it exposes on bucket 1 (to illustrate 10 stop ND) 1 microsecond, then bucket 2 for 999 microseconds, and repeats that for the duration of the exposure. Bucket 1 will then have the desired exposure, with bucket 2 ignored.

For HDR, it works like electronic ND, but bucket 2 is the \"normal\" exposure for the darkest parts of the image, while bucket 1 will have the highlights. These can be combined by the camera into a single raw image.

Those three modes all have the downside that the buckets are necessarily half as big as before, in other words having a stop or so less dynamic range.

For a totally normal picture, you\'d expose half the time in bucket 1, then half the time in bucket 2. These would be simply added together and would result in about the normal DR, though unfortunately take twice as long to read out.

-------------------------------

A dream I\'ve always had is that instead of the color filter being a matrix of RG/GB (with two physical pixels on the sensor getting G as this is the most important color to get low noise on), we have a matrix that might additionally include a couple of IR channels, allowing the sensor to get IR B&W or even IR false color images. We might additionally double-up on B pixels as these are the least-illuminated by low-blackbody-temperature lights in the evening such as candlelight.

Another possibility is moving from a 3-primary system to 8-9 primaries, which would suffice to capture 99% of colors the human eye can perceive, even though 70% don\'t occur often. This would be able to shoot perfect rainbows, gemstones, and so on, that are far outside the current small but often kind of sufficient RGB triangular subset of colors we can see. (Painter\'s Gamut, named for a guy named Painter, confusingly, is the colors that the vast majority of the real world is composed of and RGB is a pretty good though not perfect match for this.)

Such an 8-primary file would need a corresponding 8-primary display, with lots of various blue-greens especially. Apple is uniquely positioned to roll out the cameras AND the screens that would be needed to make this work, but would also want to involve a MILFF camera manufacturer.

 

[josephandrews222]

“ What we want is for each model to compete with the others and always try to surpass the superior model. So we hope that the EOS R6 Mark III will one day surpass the EOS R5 Mark II – and then the EOS R5 Mark III will restore the balance! We don't think it's fair to limit the capability of a model just because it's a 6-series model and not a 5-series model. ”

So, should we R5 owners give the R5ii a miss and wait for the R5iii? After all, the R5 is well into the more than good enough for some if not most prosumers and it will be annoying to see a cheaper R6iii overtake the R5ii.

This is a nice thread.

My contribution follows...and what is being discussed here is most similar (to me) to buying a computer.

I'm writing this on a Dell XPS 13 9380...in a couple of months it will be five (?!) years old.

It is my daily (portable, less than 3 lbs.) driver and is extremely useful for travel. Still a Windows 10 device that runs a legacy version of Photoshop.

As purchased, it has enough RAM and SSD space (along with a high-quality IPS touch screen and first-rate touchpad) to keep me happy running Photoshop, Picasa and the Topaz suite of image software (the Topaz video app? Not so much...).

Yes, the Intel processor is several generations behind...but it is good enough for my needs; I am not worknig near a press box or stadium where speed is of the essence.

Had I gone for a less-expensive laptop (or the same one with less RAM and SSD space), it is likely that I would have purchased another laptop months ago. But no need...I bought right. My goal is to buy right again, later this month...with Canon.

About a dozen years ago, I bought my first full-frame Canon DSLR --the 5DMkIII. I still use it. Nearly daily. I have purchased the M6MkII and an EF/EF-M adapter and the sensor inside the M6MkII as well as the body's capabilities have also served me well.

I regularly post images obtained using both of these bodies on CR--a few are kind of nice.

But it is time now to 'upgrade'.

From what I've seen and read on CR and elsewhere, I think the R5MkII has the best chance for satisfying my needs...for another decade+.

I could wait for the R6MkIII...but I'm on the list for an Aug 20 delivery and hope to report back a few days later.

And also hope to live long enough to be enticed by yet another Canon body years from now!

 

[vladk]

I don´t get some of the statements from Canon tbh.

So they decided to use 24MP because of easier editing? I've never run into any issues on my "still" M1 MBP when editing images even from Sony R Body with 60MP. And a Sony A1 or A9 III is not even considered a competitor? Why? Because there is no vertical grip in a big body?

I don´t know what Canon is thinking in 2024 but I'm a bit disappointed by both new Cameras and will stick with my R5 until I probably move brands.

You probably misunderstood what they meant about editors. A lot of sports coverage happen in real time. There is a bunch of photographers capturing the action, these images are sent to the field editors instantly through wifi or cable, the editors scroll through hundreds of those in real time, choose the most deserving attention ones, do a quick edit (crop, white balance, exposure compensation, not much else), and send them to the on premises publishing group for final decision and immediate publication. They need a fast throughput, not the IQ acceptable for a 20x30' poster. And the smaller the image the faster throughput is, the more images can be processed. 24 mp offers more than enough room for both IQ and crop.
Integrated vertical grip is only part of the story, SONY bodies are still easier to damage from water exposure or accidental impact (the water protection has been improved though).
Reliability is what Canon 1D/R1 and NIKON Dx/Z9 are designed with in mind. Many action shooters asked for a RF 70-200 2.8 with internal zoom for the same reason, BTW. The first RF 70-200 2.8 incarnation is too easy to get destroyed by an impact (as all collapsible lenses are).

 

[AlanF]

This is a nice thread.

My contribution follows...and what is being discussed here is most similar (to me) to buying a computer.

I'm writing this on a Dell XPS 13 9380...in a couple of months it will be five (?!) years old.

It is my daily (portable, less than 3 lbs.) driver and is extremely useful for travel. Still a Windows 10 device that runs a legacy version of Photoshop.

As purchased, it has enough RAM and SSD space (along with a high-quality IPS touch screen and first-rate touchpad) to keep me happy running Photoshop, Picasa and the Topaz suite of image software (the Topaz video app? Not so much...).

Yes, the Intel processor is several generations behind...but it is good enough for my needs; I am not worknig near a press box or stadium where speed is of the essence.

Had I gone for a less-expensive laptop (or the same one with less RAM and SSD space), it is likely that I would have purchased another laptop months ago. But no need...I bought right. My goal is to buy right again, later this month...with Canon.

About a dozen years ago, I bought my first full-frame Canon--the 5DMkIII. I still use it. Nearly daily. I have purchased the M6MkII and an EF/EF-M adapter and the sensor inside the M6MkII as well as the body's capabilities have served me well also.

I regularly post images obtained using both of these bodies on CR--a few are kind of nice.

But it is time now to 'upgrade'.

From what I've seen and read on CR and elsewhere, I think the R5MkII has the best chance for satisfying my needs...for another decade+.

I could wait for the R6MkIII...but I'm on the list for an Aug 20 delivery and hope to report back a few days later.

And also hope to live long enough to be enticed by yet another Canon body years from now!

I hope you get it in the first batch. It will be a huge leap forward from your current gear. Enjoy it!

 

[Omn]

So, I am hopeful that the 24 MP sensor is actually about having very clean images.

No need to rely on hope alone, logic goes far.

R3 R5CII
Z9 A1

Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

A1 A9III
Z9 ZF

Image comparison: Digital Photography Review

It's not just about cleaner images.

 

[Canon Rumors]

I do appreciate the discussion in this thread. Well done folks.

 

[Canon Rumors]

It is part of standard marketing right? Same reason why Ferrari sends their hypercars to Car & Driver for review. No one in the position to buy a LaFerrari hinges their decision on whether C&D gives it a good review.

Sure you want the camera to be useful to the target market, but the flagship camera also plays a part in creating hype and awareness for the brand as a whole. Same thing with the white superteles — sure it might be useful in heat dissipation, but the extra marketing Canon got definitely didn’t hurt.

Most people who read PP or DPR or whatever won’t buy the R1, but they might well think “oh maybe I can get some of the AI AF and ECAF goodies on my next camera”.

You're right... One of the biggest morons ever at DPR is now writing for Car & Driver. Still a moron.

 

[NorskHest]

My question is when and or if the R 3 will get the pre shot buffer firmware, it is a pro camera and they will likely is that sensor in the r6 3 and probably include that feature so why would it not be available to we r3 users? Also the r1 mp count is a bit disappointing but I’m still going to get it and most of us are still going to want it.

 

[NorskHest]

I had seriously hoped for a \"master of all\" R1 as the mirrorless successor to my 1DX Mark III. As a Leica M11 owner, I know the technology exists to allow setting file size from 60, to 36, and even down to 18 megapixels, so I thought that a true flagship from Canon might take a similar approach. This would enable me to shoot whatever I needed, from portraits to products, landscapes, architecture and events, each with the most productive megapixel size. But since for Canon, \"flagship\" means sports pros, they decided to deal folks like me out (I shoot sports but not for money). I\'ve ordered the Leica SL3 and will trading in my 1DX Mark III, R5 and 5DSR to get it. The only Canon body I\'m keeping is the 7D Mark II, which will be my only \"sports\" APS-C body.

Ohhhhh don’t sell the 5dsr. Man. That to me is one of canons best cameras. I have two and I love them. Might not have the best iso performance but every time I use that camera I am blown away.

 

[Canon Rumors]

My question is when and or if the R 3 will get the pre shot buffer firmware, it is a pro camera and they will likely is that sensor in the r6 3 and probably include that feature so why would it not be available to we r3 users? Also the r1 mp count is a bit disappointing but I’m still going to get it and most of us are still going to want it.

It won't, that's a hardware thing.

 

[Canon Rumors]

Ohhhhh don’t sell the 5dsr. Man. That to me is one of canons best cameras. I have two and I love them. Might not have the best iso performance but every time I use that camera I am blown away.

It's weird to.see.people love one of Canon's worst sensors.

 

[josephandrews222]

You're right... One of the biggest morons ever at DPR is now writing for Car & Driver. Still a moron.

I've been 'at' the internet since the mid-1990s (when an AOL telephone line supplied access from home). I've had my share of kerfuffels over the years.

CR is one of my half-dozen favorite websites (save the one I founded and have managed since the late 1990s )...and those who manage, and write for, CR, are, in my mind...LIONS.

With that in mind, I respectfully submit the following:



...I post this with at least some awareness of the 'weirdness' of one of the moderators, years ago, at DPR,

I actually forget the details, but the guy got me mixed up with a troll, I think, and some posts on the Canon M subsection of the DPR forums were left uncorrected for months, despite my protestations.

So I can imagine a large level of frustration with the DPR crew, and I"m sure they deserve criticism.

But for me, CR is The Lion.

 

[AlanF]

It's weird to.see.people love one of Canon's worst sensors.

In practice, it is actually very good even though it looks terrible on photonstophotos etc. The AF of the 5DSR is also good.

 

[Canon Rumors]

In practice, it is actually very good even though it looks terrible on photonstophotos etc. The AF of the 5DSR is also good.

I had one... It was awful across the board. The rendering from that sensor was as bad as the 6D2. That camera actually pushed people to Sony.

 

[Canon Rumors]

I've been 'at' the internet since the mid-1990s (when an AOL telephone line supplied access from home). I've had my share of kerfuffels over the years.

CR is one of my half-dozen favorite websites (save the one I founded and have managed since the late 1990s )...and those who manage, and write for, CR, are, in my mind...LIONS.

With that in mind, I respectfully submit the following:

View attachment 218880

...I post this with at least some awareness of the 'weirdness' of one of the moderators, years ago, at DPR,

I actually forget the details, but the guy got me mixed up with a troll, I think, and some posts on the Canon M subsection of the DPR forums were left uncorrected for months, despite my protestations.

So I can imagine a large level of frustration with the DPR crew, and I"m sure they deserve criticism.

But for me, CR is The Lion.

I like that.... At a point in life as we age.... you truly stop caring and do your best to tell the truth and call out BS. I'm not patting myself on the back, but the world across the board needs more of it.

I have always said CR is a camera tabloid, I will never insult journalists and writers by claiming that's what we are.

Richard and I are doing the slow burn of changing some things. I think our niche needs it.

PetaPixel and Camera/Lens YouTube are vile.(There are a couple of decent ones). People seriously think purple light boy reading them the manual is an authority.

 

[Richard CN]

We both know you wanted to mention the R100 there.

Still, the fact remains that despite some missteps, their market share remained dominant even as the whole industry changed.

me? R100? no way.

they still may be dominant, but there are less deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[Adam Shutter Bug]

The EOS R1 is the result of thinking about how to balance the advantages of a very sharp sensor. We also wanted to offer a body with very high ISO sensitivity, and we managed to achieve a value of ISO 102,400.

We also wanted the shutter speed to be as high as possible. And, as you know, the camera can capture 40 frames per second. But if you go for a high definition, the available frame rate is usually quite low.

Considering all of this, we felt that 24MP was the right balance between all of these pros and cons.

I don’t buy it. Canon say they are competing against the Z9 but the sensor of the R1 does not beat it on every metric. The A1 is about 3.5 years old at this point and on paper is still more impressive than the Canon flagship, costs £3k less on grey market and £1k less from high street retailer.
The 1DX was a product of its time and was amazing for the tech available. Sensor technology has moved on massively and the R1 shouldn’t be following the same formula as it is not limited by the tech. The argument of low MP = better noise handling at high ISO is nonsense. Some of these sensors now at 45+ MP at 30fps+ handling ISO to give usable results in the tens of thousands now and add editing software the noise reduction and use of AI makes noise a non issue for modern cameras.
Feels like Canon doesn’t have the sensor design to keep up with Sony yes the AF processing is every bit as good. That or worse it’s a business or ideological choice by the business

 

[mpmark]

I just want an R1 with a 45MP sensor.

I don't think I'm alone here.

You aren't, myself and a handful of people I know would jump on it right away as well

 

[mpmark]

I don´t get some of the statements from Canon tbh.

So they decided to use 24MP because of easier editing? I've never run into any issues on my "still" M1 MBP when editing images even from Sony R Body with 60MP. And a Sony A1 or A9 III is not even considered a competitor? Why? Because there is no vertical grip in a big body?

I don´t know what Canon is thinking in 2024 but I'm a bit disappointed by both new Cameras and will stick with my R5 until I probably move brands.

Canon never said that it's easier for editing, they gave another reason. You should maybe read it again.