Canon Mirrorless in 2012?

[friedmud]

I guess I'm weird... but for me these super small interchangeable lens bodies just don't do it for me. For me there are basically two types of photography:

1. Artistic: This is where I want my bigass DSLR with DoF and tons of lens choices.

2. "Moment Capture": This is basically when I just want to record an even that happened with decent IQ.

Carrying around a bag of lenses (even if they are smaller than my DSLR lenses) for "Moment Capture" just doesn't work out. I'd rather just use my iPhone 4S (which has decent IQ for a phone) or maybe purchase a high end P&S and just use the lens that's on it.

I _highly_ suspect that 90% of the people buying cameras like the Nikon 1 _never_ buy another lens for it (and possibly never even know that they could).

I think it's a pretty big mistake to try to market a tiny body interchangeable lens system to pros....

But I guess we'll see what the market thinks about this whole thing. It's obvious that Canon seems to agree with me so far (and the G1 X reaffirms that).

Also... I'm that weird guy that carries his DSLR with him EVERYWHERE. I hike up mountains with all my lenses and a huge tripod... I go to dinner at restaurants with my 7D and 17-55 f/2.8 slung over my shoulder... my DSLR rides shotgun with me to work and back.... I have a dedicated skiing photography bag replete with hand-warmer pockets to keep my gear warm that I always ski with....

I _never_ want to miss that perfect moment.... and if all I was carrying was some tiny sensor PoS when it happened I would be pissed!

So maybe I'm not the best person to judge ;-)

 

[CarebbianTraveler]

If they could fit the sensor of the 5D original in a smaller, mirrorless body with a miniaturised 50mm f/1.4 - I would pay good money for that.

Essentially the M9 but cheaper...

I'd prefer the 1DX's sensor ;-)
But now that they have announced a compact with such a large sensor, a EVIL will either be FF or never come.

 

[ecka]

If they could fit the sensor of the 5D original in a smaller, mirrorless body with a miniaturised 50mm f/1.4 - I would pay good money for that.

Essentially the M9 but cheaper...

I'd prefer the 1DX's sensor ;-)
But now that they have announced a compact with such a large sensor, a EVIL will either be FF or never come.

Me too

 

[jbooba]

hey guys,
reuters has a more detailed info on the interview: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/05/idUSL3E7I50RX20110705

JB

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I guess I'm weird... but for me these super small interchangeable lens bodies just don't do it for me. For me there are basically two types of photography:

1. Artistic: This is where I want my bigass DSLR with DoF and tons of lens choices.

2. "Moment Capture": This is basically when I just want to record an even that happened with decent IQ.

Carrying around a bag of lenses (even if they are smaller than my DSLR lenses) for "Moment Capture" just doesn't work out. I'd rather just use my iPhone 4S (which has decent IQ for a phone) or maybe purchase a high end P&S and just use the lens that's on it.

I _highly_ suspect that 90% of the people buying cameras like the Nikon 1 _never_ buy another lens for it (and possibly never even know that they could).

I think it's a pretty big mistake to try to market a tiny body interchangeable lens system to pros....

But I guess we'll see what the market thinks about this whole thing. It's obvious that Canon seems to agree with me so far (and the G1 X reaffirms that).

Also... I'm that weird guy that carries his DSLR with him EVERYWHERE. I hike up mountains with all my lenses and a huge tripod... I go to dinner at restaurants with my 7D and 17-55 f/2.8 slung over my shoulder... my DSLR rides shotgun with me to work and back.... I have a dedicated skiing photography bag replete with hand-warmer pockets to keep my gear warm that I always ski with....

I _never_ want to miss that perfect moment.... and if all I was carrying was some tiny sensor PoS when it happened I would be pissed!

So maybe I'm not the best person to judge ;-)

I tend to agree. I mostly try to use a DSLR whenever I can, but when it's not suited then I don't want some half-way between thing and messing with lenses, just give me an iphone cam or little P&S. I mean either you are serious enough about the shots to bother carrying this and that or you are not.

Which is not to say that EF mount and EOS line ouldn't get some mirrorless bodies in the line.

 

[Canon-F1]

you can´t carry a DSLR with you to all places.. simply because you won´t be allowed to shoot with a DSLR.
but i never had problems taking my little PEN with me.

i will never buy a P&S camera again.
mFT is not that much bigger but IQ is much better.
i hate that smearing the agressiv noise reduction creates with P&S cameras.

i don´t need FF or APS-C in such a camera. lenses are too big then.
mFT is the right compromise for my needs.

if the next G1 X MK2 goes from 24mm to 150mm i will buy it.
f2 would be fantastic. ;D

for now im happy with my PEN.

 

[alipaulphotography]

I guess I'm weird... but for me these super small interchangeable lens bodies just don't do it for me. For me there are basically two types of photography:

1. Artistic: This is where I want my bigass DSLR with DoF and tons of lens choices.

2. "Moment Capture": This is basically when I just want to record an even that happened with decent IQ.

Carrying around a bag of lenses (even if they are smaller than my DSLR lenses) for "Moment Capture" just doesn't work out. I'd rather just use my iPhone 4S (which has decent IQ for a phone) or maybe purchase a high end P&S and just use the lens that's on it.

I _highly_ suspect that 90% of the people buying cameras like the Nikon 1 _never_ buy another lens for it (and possibly never even know that they could).

I think it's a pretty big mistake to try to market a tiny body interchangeable lens system to pros....

But I guess we'll see what the market thinks about this whole thing. It's obvious that Canon seems to agree with me so far (and the G1 X reaffirms that).

Also... I'm that weird guy that carries his DSLR with him EVERYWHERE. I hike up mountains with all my lenses and a huge tripod... I go to dinner at restaurants with my 7D and 17-55 f/2.8 slung over my shoulder... my DSLR rides shotgun with me to work and back.... I have a dedicated skiing photography bag replete with hand-warmer pockets to keep my gear warm that I always ski with....

I _never_ want to miss that perfect moment.... and if all I was carrying was some tiny sensor PoS when it happened I would be pissed!

So maybe I'm not the best person to judge ;-)

I tend to agree. I mostly try to use a DSLR whenever I can, but when it's not suited then I don't want some half-way between thing and messing with lenses, just give me an iphone cam or little P&S. I mean either you are serious enough about the shots to bother carrying this and that or you are not.

Which is not to say that EF mount and EOS line ouldn't get some mirrorless bodies in the line.

So basically you don't want to sacrifice image quality, so you lug round a DSLR?

Well imagine a full frame mirrorless compact with small wide aperture prime lenses like a 50mm f/1.4. Awesome image quality in an almost pocket sized body - Essentially an M9 alternative.

You wouldn't have to decide between capturing the moment or image quality as you'd have both.

That is what I was suggesting.

 

[wickidwombat]

if they do a mirrorless to compete with the nexes aqnd so on i hope they make an EF/ EFs adaptor for it so we can us our existing glass with it, just from the perspective of having a very small form factor crop body in the bag you can pop onto a 300 or 400 lens and shoot longer, of course it would have to have decent AF which from what i've heard is where all these mirrorless option are a bit of a let down

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I guess I'm weird... but for me these super small interchangeable lens bodies just don't do it for me. For me there are basically two types of photography:

1. Artistic: This is where I want my bigass DSLR with DoF and tons of lens choices.

2. "Moment Capture": This is basically when I just want to record an even that happened with decent IQ.

Carrying around a bag of lenses (even if they are smaller than my DSLR lenses) for "Moment Capture" just doesn't work out. I'd rather just use my iPhone 4S (which has decent IQ for a phone) or maybe purchase a high end P&S and just use the lens that's on it.

I _highly_ suspect that 90% of the people buying cameras like the Nikon 1 _never_ buy another lens for it (and possibly never even know that they could).

I think it's a pretty big mistake to try to market a tiny body interchangeable lens system to pros....

But I guess we'll see what the market thinks about this whole thing. It's obvious that Canon seems to agree with me so far (and the G1 X reaffirms that).

Also... I'm that weird guy that carries his DSLR with him EVERYWHERE. I hike up mountains with all my lenses and a huge tripod... I go to dinner at restaurants with my 7D and 17-55 f/2.8 slung over my shoulder... my DSLR rides shotgun with me to work and back.... I have a dedicated skiing photography bag replete with hand-warmer pockets to keep my gear warm that I always ski with....

I _never_ want to miss that perfect moment.... and if all I was carrying was some tiny sensor PoS when it happened I would be pissed!

So maybe I'm not the best person to judge ;-)

I tend to agree. I mostly try to use a DSLR whenever I can, but when it's not suited then I don't want some half-way between thing and messing with lenses, just give me an iphone cam or little P&S. I mean either you are serious enough about the shots to bother carrying this and that or you are not.

Which is not to say that EF mount and EOS line ouldn't get some mirrorless bodies in the line.

So basically you don't want to sacrifice image quality, so you lug round a DSLR?

Well imagine a full frame mirrorless compact with small wide aperture prime lenses like a 50mm f/1.4. Awesome image quality in an almost pocket sized body - Essentially an M9 alternative.

You wouldn't have to decide between capturing the moment or image quality as you'd have both.

That is what I was suggesting.

Yes, I either want everything my EOS camera and array of lenses brings me or a P&S/iphone/etc. are good enough and I want something as tiny as possible. That's how I shoot.

 

[Doodah]

Well imagine a full frame mirrorless compact with small wide aperture prime lenses like a 50mm f/1.4. Awesome image quality in an almost pocket sized body - Essentially an M9 alternative.

That is my desire too. A FF mirrorless camera. Without the expensive pentaprism, the price will probably drop to that of 7D/D300s. Well worth it.

 

[ronderick]

I guess if Canon does come out with a EVIL body, people would expect it to be FF, good AF, small size, and takes advantage of the existing EF system lenses.

Whether this can be accomplished in the near future or not, that's a different story.

At least don't come up with something as small as Nikon 1's sensor... *shiver*

 

[aj1575]

I think it's a pretty big mistake to try to market a tiny body interchangeable lens system to pros....

But I guess we'll see what the market thinks about this whole thing. It's obvious that Canon seems to agree with me so far (and the G1 X reaffirms that).

I completly agree. The Nikon 1 is not for pros, or even for ambitious amateurs; they may only use it as a second or even third camera to play arround a little bit, a toy. But even then there are better "toys" out there like the Fuji X100.

I think that Canon will introduce an EVIL system in the future, simply because EVIL is the future. There are two big drawbacks at the moment; one is autofocus speed, and the other is the electronic viewfinder. The first is alreday pretty good in an EVIL, while the second one still sucks compared to a pentaprism. But this will change in the future. So the days of the mirror are numbered.

If I were Canon I would develop an APS-C or even FF compatible EVIL system, that coexists with EOS / EF(-S) in the beginning, but will replace it in the future. For the normal consumer I would go with fixed lens systems like the G1X, or for the more ambitous one with an entry-level EVIL camera with the same mount as for the pros (like it has been in the past with analog SLR).

 

[kapanak]

I think it's a pretty big mistake to try to market a tiny body interchangeable lens system to pros....

But I guess we'll see what the market thinks about this whole thing. It's obvious that Canon seems to agree with me so far (and the G1 X reaffirms that).

I completly agree. The Nikon 1 is not for pros, or even for ambitious amateurs; they may only use it as a second or even third camera to play arround a little bit, a toy. But even then there are better "toys" out there like the Fuji X100.

I think that Canon will introduce an EVIL system in the future, simply because EVIL is the future. There are two big drawbacks at the moment; one is autofocus speed, and the other is the electronic viewfinder. The first is alreday pretty good in an EVIL, while the second one still sucks compared to a pentaprism. But this will change in the future. So the days of the mirror are numbered.

If I were Canon I would develop an APS-C or even FF compatible EVIL system, that coexists with EOS / EF(-S) in the beginning, but will replace it in the future. For the normal consumer I would go with fixed lens systems like the G1X, or for the more ambitous one with an entry-level EVIL camera with the same mount as for the pros (like it has been in the past with analog SLR).

I have the EVF for the NEX-5N, and although very high resolution and quite impressive, especially with scene preview and live histogram, it still does not have the same natural feeling of an OVF. I don't think mirrorless cameras are meant to replace DSLRs ... mirrored and mirrorless cameras have co-existed since the beginning. They will continue to address different needs in different audiences in the market, and will complement each other in a professional's photography kit.

 

[moreorless]

I have the EVF for the NEX-5N, and although very high resolution and quite impressive, especially with scene preview and live histogram, it still does not have the same natural feeling of an OVF. I don't think mirrorless cameras are meant to replace DSLRs ... mirrored and mirrorless cameras have co-existed since the beginning. They will continue to address different needs in different audiences in the market, and will complement each other in a professional's photography kit.

A DSLR could of course also potentially have a hyrid OVF/EVF aswell to get the advantages from the latter, that and having to balance large zoom lenses will IMHO keep them alive although I do think systems like this new Fuji will take a good deal of the hi end market.

 

[c.d.embrey]

Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012

Camera-size means also includes lens size. So for the image quality (and a shallow depth of field) a big sensor is needed, which means big lenses.

I shoot advertising -- I couldn't care less about paper thin DOF. Most of what I do is shot between f5.6 and f16. YMMV.

Just look at a NEX with a telephoto lens, the size of the body is becoming less important, because it's the lens that makes up the bulk. Then there is the handling issue for serious work with a camera. I think most people would get a cramp in their hands, if they have to cover a sport event for 2 hours with a NEX+telephoto-lens.

Always use the right tool or the job. I don't think many people will be covering the Super Bowl with a Sony NEX.

On the other hand, these systems are nice to go hiking ...

They are also great if you are holding a camera for 8 hours during a commercial shoot. Some Pros are talking about dumping their DSLRs for mirrorless. My primary lenses are 24mm and 85mm primes. A NEX 7 and a 24mm f1.8 Zeiss weight about 20 Oz total.

People who do not care that much about IQ, will buy a smaller camera ...

People who don't care will use their phones. The P&S market is dying. And not many people will "step up" from Smart Phones to real cameras.

I think there is room for an APS-C or even FF EVIL-camera in the rangefinder style. SONY is close to this, but the ergonomics of the NEX sucks.

Since I got my NEX 5n my Canon DSLRs don't get much use. When I pick-up a NEX 7 I doubt they will get any use.

If I were Canon, I would take some time to find the ideal sensor-size for a future EVIL-System. It is not an easy task...

APS-C is the perfect size. Canon needs to get their act together and make a small and light Pro quality camera. It doesn't need to be mirrorless, a Digital EOS IX (an APS film camer from the 1990s) would be great with a EF 85mm f1.8. or a new 22mm f1.8 EF-S.

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012

APS-C is the perfect size. Canon needs to get their act together and make a small and light Pro quality camera. It doesn't need to be mirrorless, a Digital EOS IX (an APS film camer from the 1990s) would be great with a EF 85mm f1.8. or a new 22mm f1.8 EF-S.

I have a EOS IX - I bought it as a travel camera. Still works OK. I have a 85 f/1.8 as well it would be very interesting combination. I suspect the APS quality would be disappointing now though I did run a cassette through using a 55-200 EF - quality was acceptable. Perhaps I should put 400 f/2.8 IS on it ;D ;D ;D 8)

 

[kapanak]

I have the EVF for the NEX-5N, and although very high resolution and quite impressive, especially with scene preview and live histogram, it still does not have the same natural feeling of an OVF. I don't think mirrorless cameras are meant to replace DSLRs ... mirrored and mirrorless cameras have co-existed since the beginning. They will continue to address different needs in different audiences in the market, and will complement each other in a professional's photography kit.

A DSLR could of course also potentially have a hyrid OVF/EVF aswell to get the advantages from the latter, that and having to balance large zoom lenses will IMHO keep them alive although I do think systems like this new Fuji will take a good deal of the hi end market.

That's the thing. A DSLR, by definition, cannot have an electronic viewfinder at the same time as an optical one. It may have a second, smaller sensor for the EVF component, but we shall not get into that. Of course, OVFs have electronic parts embedded, but it is not a preview of what the sensor is seeing, because of the mirror. It is all about that mirror. Sony has their A65/77, but that lacks an OVF ...

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012

APS-C is the perfect size. Canon needs to get their act together and make a small and light Pro quality camera. It doesn't need to be mirrorless, a Digital EOS IX (an APS film camer from the 1990s) would be great with a EF 85mm f1.8. or a new 22mm f1.8 EF-S.

Here you are - EOS IX + 85 f/1.8

 

[alipaulphotography]

Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012

APS-C is the perfect size. Canon needs to get their act together and make a small and light Pro quality camera. It doesn't need to be mirrorless, a Digital EOS IX (an APS film camer from the 1990s) would be great with a EF 85mm f1.8. or a new 22mm f1.8 EF-S.

Here you are - EOS IX + 85 f/1.8

I have never seen a camera like that before! That's amazing! Thanks for sharing.

Without a mirror - lenses can be so much smaller though which would be a big help.

My top priority in a camera is image quality of course - So I will not sacrifice sensor size, ISO performance or lens quality/speed.

My 2nd is size - Smaller, lighter the better.

That gap is slowly closing. Leica have shown it is very possible - shame they are just so darn expensive!

I look forward to the Fuji reviews - but a small canon large sensor camera would be great for flash compatibility.

 

[c.d.embrey]

Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012

APS-C is the perfect size. Canon needs to get their act together and make a small and light Pro quality camera. It doesn't need to be mirrorless, a Digital EOS IX (an APS film camer from the 1990s) would be great with a EF 85mm f1.8. or a new 22mm f1.8 EF-S.

Here you are - EOS IX + 85 f/1.8

Thanks, briansquibb. I'd buy two. if Canon made a Digital EOS IX!

A Digital EOS IX (EOS XD?) with a 7D/7DmkII sensor would be a BIG seller, IMHO. Lots of great EF-S and EF lenses could be used with a Digital EOS IX.

BTW Nikon made the Pronea APS film camera with a F-mount.