Canon prevents me from buying the 7D Mark II

[Rob-downunder]

Hi,

25 years in IT here, so thought I'd throw some advice your way.

Vista was junk. Win 7 64 or 8.1 64 are much better and a lot faster.

Instead of buying a new PC, you can simply buy a decent SSD, install as an additional drive in your computer and setup dual boot, so you can choose which to load. Be sure when doing the OS install you disconnect the other drives. I would then have 3 drives in your PC, Vista boot, 8.1 boot then a high capacity drive for data. You can then slowly migrate stuff to the new OS as you wish.

Make sure you have 8GB of RAM, your older PC may have come with less. Check SSD specs, some have fast read but slow write, have a look at Intel 530 series. Backup your data before you start. Once you use 8.1 with an SSD you won't miss Vista. Download a 3rd party free start menu for 8.1 so the interface works as you are used to.

Adobe cloud is a bargain. 10 bucks a month or 120 per year for LR and PS. If I bought packaged software it would cost me years of subscriptions anyway, and then I'd miss out on all those free upgrades along the way or I'd need to pay extra each time.

Move on, enjoy. There may be a few hassles along the way, but the engineers have been hard at work for the last 10 years improving stuff. Don't miss out.

 

[Harv]

No offense, but it sounds like you are setting up impediments... creative cloud, local vendors, antiquated operating systems...

We don't always get exactly what we want, but we find a way to make it work.

Nah, all that stuff is legitimate complaints. Most people find it difficult to update an operating system and there's always a cascading set of problems that follow with programs not working, lost settings, reinstalling everything, its a PITA. There's also nothing wrong with wanting to support local people who spend, hire, and pay taxes in the local community nor is there anything wrong with being annoyed that Adobe has moved to rental scheme. IMO, it really doesn't seem worth it to upgrade to a new camera that might be, at best, a marginal improvement in a couple of specs over his current bodies if the setup he has works for what he does. And I'm saying this as someone who built the computer I'm typing this on, regularly reinstalls the OS, buys stuff online and is interested in the 7DII (depending on how it performs v 1DIV).

Thank you. Appreciate your comments.

 

[dcm]

Trying to stay on the oldest OS can be a losing proposition from my perspective (35 years industry experience in HW and SW R&D). You will continue having to upgrade as MS and application providers like Canon cease to support the oldest versions of Windows. With Windows 10 on the horizon, MS will likely drop support for Windows Vista when it releases - I believe their policy is support for only the last 2 versions (7 & 8). Canon will follow suit and you will need to upgrade again if you want any updates. You may also find performance suffers if your hardware is old, the file sizes increase with larger sensors, and new features are added to DPP. I'd also be concerned about reliability problems looming with old hardware. Upgrading the OS can exacerbate problems.

Best bet is to leap forward with new hardware and software that will give you several years of service as your original investment did, rather than keep delaying and moving forward incrementally. You can start with your new photo software and incrementally move other things from your old configuration as time and resources permit. I assume you already have your images on a separate hard drive (internal or external) so the move should be easy. If not, that's the first step I'd take and make sure I have a complete backup (or two) - transitions like this are a good time to make an archive. Then pick the software you want to use in the future and build a new system around that.

 

[Harv]

I have been a Canon user my entire life. I love the product, including DPP which is my RAW converter of choice.

I presently shoot with a 1D Mark IV and a 5D Mark III, which are fully supported by my present version of DPP. The 7D Mark II requires that I update my DPP.

Here is my problem with that.....

The newer version of DPP does not support my operating system. I run Vista 64. Updating my operating system requires that I go to Windows 8 which needs a clean install. Huge job. Also, I'm not sure that a lot of my current software will run on Windows 8. I have CS4 as well as plugins such as NIK, Neat Image and a slew of other free standing applications.

As much as I was not comfortable with the user interface of Lightroom when I tried a demo last year, I thought I would now have to go that route. Guess what? Right. It's now only available under CC and I refuse to rent software on a monthly fee basis which is why I still run CS4.

I'm 72 years old so I guess my 1D4 and 5D3 will have to do me the rest of my life or until my computer cr@ps out and I have no choice.

All Canon had to do was continue to support the operating system and I would have added a 7D2 to my bag.

Okay..... rant over.

Quit your ranting and do your homework. LR is available as a perpetual license from any number of sources, even in Canada. Adobe themselves even still sell it!

https://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/software._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_mostpopular.html?promoid=KLXMV

Thanks. I did my homework but obviously not as well as you. I searched the Adobe site but never found this link. All I came up with when I searched was the rental option. Appreciate your efforts.

 

[Don Haines]

If you are thinking of upgrading, get a new hard drive.

Back up everything to an external drive, then remove the old drive, put in the new drive, and start fresh. Hard drives fail with time and use.... Any opportunity to get a new one should not be overlooked, plus you can always swap the old drive back in if disaster strikes.....

 

[emag]

I partially agree with OP's sentiments. My old Vista 32 laptop runs software my Win8.1 machine won't, some of which is important to me for astrophotography. When the left hinge pinched the video cable (common HP problem), I bought the Win8.1 laptop, then took my time and replaced the video cable in the Vista laptop, installed a SSD and made it a dual boot Ubuntu/Vista. It's now the laptop I take to the field for astro sessions. Ubuntu and Wine run *most* of what I want, but when needed I can boot into Vista for those programs that refuse to run properly with Wine. There may be a remedy but it's beyond my abilities. As a bonus, Ubuntu boots (and shuts down) faster than I can fart, and that's pretty darn quick. Great for when I just want to check email or peruse the latest DR argument on CR. Personally, I consider $10/month for always having the latest version of Photoshop a fair price, and Adobe has stated that Lightroom will always be available as a standalone version.

 

[Harv]

Trying to stay on the oldest OS can be a losing proposition from my perspective (35 years industry experience in HW and SW R&D). You will continue having to upgrade as MS and application providers like Canon cease to support the oldest versions of Windows. With Windows 10 on the horizon, MS will likely drop support for Windows Vista when it releases - I believe their policy is support for only the last 2 versions (7 & 8). Canon will follow suit and you will need to upgrade again if you want any updates. You may also find performance suffers if your hardware is old, the file sizes increase with larger sensors, and new features are added to DPP. I'd also be concerned about reliability problems looming with old hardware. Upgrading the OS can exacerbate problems.

Best bet is to leap forward with new hardware and software that will give you several years of service as your original investment did, rather than keep delaying and moving forward incrementally. You can start with your new photo software and incrementally move other things from your old configuration as time and resources permit. I assume you already have your images on a separate hard drive (internal or external) so the move should be easy. If not, that's the first step I'd take and make sure I have a complete backup (or two) - transitions like this are a good time to make an archive. Then pick the software you want to use in the future and build a new system around that.

This is starting to sound like good advice regardless of whether or not I buy another body. Thanks for the input.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Instead of buying a new PC, you can simply buy a decent SSD, install as an additional drive in your computer and setup dual boot, so you can choose which to load. Be sure when doing the OS install you disconnect the other drives. I would then have 3 drives in your PC, Vista boot, 8.1 boot then a high capacity drive for data. You can then slowly migrate stuff to the new OS as you wish.

+1
;D

Adobe cloud is a bargain. 10 bucks a month or 120 per year for LR and PS. If I bought packaged software it would cost me years of subscriptions anyway, and then I'd miss out on all those free upgrades along the way or I'd need to pay extra each time.

-1


(that said, as others have mentioned, LR is still available without the nasty rental model (note that I refuse to call it CC or cloud, since it's nothing to do with distributed computing, oops I mean 'cloud' computing. They simply went to a rental model. Nothing more and nothing less. Although it's mostly less ;D.))

 

[tolusina]

Instead of buying a new PC, you can simply buy a decent SSD, install as an additional drive in your computer and setup dual boot, so you can choose which to load. Be sure when doing the OS install you disconnect the other drives. I would then have 3 drives in your PC, Vista boot, 8.1 boot then a high capacity drive for data. You can then slowly migrate stuff to the new OS as you wish.

+1
;D

Adobe cloud is a bargain. 10 bucks a month or 120 per year for LR and PS. If I bought packaged software it would cost me years of subscriptions anyway, and then I'd miss out on all those free upgrades along the way or I'd need to pay extra each time.

-1


(that said, as others have mentioned, LR is still available without the nasty rental model (note that I refuse to call it CC or cloud, since it's nothing to do with distributed computing, oops I mean 'cloud' computing. They simply went to a rental model. Nothing more and nothing less. Although it's mostly less ;D .))

While I too like the concept of adding an SSD and installing Windows 7, I suggest you first visit the Microsoft Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor Page, and run the software available there, see if the rest of your current hardware is up to snuff.

Based on my personal experience, I consider 4GB memory an absolute minimum requirement for Windows 7, 8GB or 16GB is desirable, I'm using 32GB so as to future proof this machine as best I can considering the unknow-ability of future developments.
As I write this with little open but the browser and a few programs that start themselves at boot, the system is using 3.38GB of memory.
Shortly after installing Windows 7 SP1, I ran the system update giving it free reign to update everything it saw fit. Memory use went up to 10 or 11GB during that update. Had the system had less memory available it would have fallen to a swap file to make up the difference which would have excruciatingly extended an already length process.

 

[Perio]

Vista was garbage.

Get 7Pro x64, you'll never regret it.

Rant over ;D

How's Vista garbage? People didn't like it because computers were not powerful enough to run it smoothly. Run it on a new recently released computer and it will fly.

 

[cnardo]

Harv....

Consider buying a cheap desktop to install your 7DII s/w and other non-Vista compatible programs on. Not sure where you are, but, here in the states you can get a Windows 8 Machine ...desktop... plus extra RAM and a decent HD for well under $600-700 USD... this is just the unit/mouse/keyboard. Very small footprint... keep your old machine & monitor (buy a switch to go back and forth between new/old computer and the monitor) and migrate over your Programs to the new machine over the course of several/many months... a little at a time. If nothing else, you'll be establishing another backup path and have something in case your old machine really craps out or if your new machine develops a problem.

Go back and forth between machines using USB keys and/or emailing yourself

 

[danski0224]

You can go from Vista to 7 without a clean install.

There is a lot of bellyaching about 8/8.1, but there is nothing wrong with it. W8 is pretty slick if you give it a chance.

Compatibility mode addresses many software issues.

Putting the OS on a SSD and everything else on a HDD (one or multiples), including the user files, CORRECTLY, can be done in W7. The MS approved method requires a clean install. There are tricks to do it later.There are registry mods. For those that do not like to venture into the bowels of the OS, buying a machine configured this way is the easiest way.

If the multiple drives and user file locations are not set up properly, an in place upgrade to 8 from 7 is a problem.

I have many program files on a drive other than C: and it works just fine, no issues with any Windows updates.

Yes, some old/ancient software or peripherals may not work. Drivers can be an issue if the manufacturer does not support the latest OS.

 

[lilmsmaggie]

I'd go with Neuro's option. However, I think LR5 is available as 64-bit application.

I work in IT (I'm 66 not quite 70 but close) and while I can understand and personally sympathize with not wanting to upgrade an OS, I would NOT go the Win 8 route. My main home PC runs Vista 32-bit, but I have a laptop running 64-bit win 7 and my workstation at work is also running 64-bit win 7.

You can buy Win 7. Check out newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Operating-Systems/SubCategory/ID-368

You should be able to find 64-bit Windows 7 on Amazon as well.

Just make sure you find, download and install all of your drivers (PITA) you will need, after the OS installs.

Install the service pack and run Windows update. The drivers should be updated before you attempt any application installs.

If you can swing it, get yourself a 250 GB SSD and install Windows 7 on it and all your applications. You will be surprised how fast Win 7 install on a SSD drive. Save your HDD as a data drive, or find a refurbished one from some place like newegg.

I built a PC and helped my nephew build one for himself about a year ago. Sourced all the parts except for the motherboard, cpu and power supply from newegg.com. I live about 2 hrs drive from the S.F. bay area and found a good price on a package deal (motherboard, CPU and PS) from a local computer store in Santa Clara:

http://www.microcenter.com/default.aspx?

It's actually fun to build a computer . Really. Just allow yourself about 8 hrs. if its your first build.
I believe newegg had some DIY videos at one time on YouTube as well as their website.

But I like Neuro's option.

Harv, you can preorder the 7DII from B&H and get $30 off the boxed LR5. Would that work?

 

[risc32]

Instead of buying a new PC, you can simply buy a decent SSD, install as an additional drive in your computer and setup dual boot, so you can choose which to load. Be sure when doing the OS install you disconnect the other drives. I would then have 3 drives in your PC, Vista boot, 8.1 boot then a high capacity drive for data. You can then slowly migrate stuff to the new OS as you wish.

yup, and use something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994164&cm_re=HD_tray-_-17-994-164-_-Product so you can easily swap drives. you'll have to shut down with a c drive swap of course, and this accepts a bare drive so no silly rails to attach.

as an aside, i had win 98,98se, 2000pro, vista 32, and win7 64. I haven't seen a BSOD or any real problems since win2000pro. since then rock solid. My IT friend laughed and laughed at me running vista, but i didn't have one single issue. i don't know what the deal was, but it sure had/has a bad rap. I built the 98,98se,2000 machines, and modded my vista,win7 boxes. they are still low end stuff, but i kick'em up a bit.

 

[gbchriste]

You'd have to lay out some money but have you considered virtualization? A virtualization environment is one that lets you run one operating system within its own application space hosted on another operating system. Check out VMWare Workstation. You can run VMWare Workstation on your desktop with a separate Windows 7 or 8 OS inside a virtual machine. So you would in effect be running two machines simultaneously on the same physical box. And you can share resources between those such as your network and Internet connection, shared drives, USB ports, etc etc. So you could run DPP within your virtual Windows 8 OS, and still have full, simultaneous access to your Vista system.

I'm a Mac user and do all my photo processing on the Mac OS but I'm also a Windows IT analyst and software developer and have to have a couple of different Windows desktop and server environments to work on. I don't keep separate hardware around for those. I run VMWare's virtualization product for Mac - VMWare Fusion - and have a Windows environment running in its own window on my Mac system. Works like a charm.

 

[dstppy]

Vista was garbage.

Get 7Pro x64, you'll never regret it.

Rant over ;D

How's Vista garbage? People didn't like it because computers were not powerful enough to run it smoothly. Run it on a new recently released computer and it will fly.

Mostly default settings. They "did it" in vista, then "undid it" in 7, then "did it" again in 8, now are skipping 9 and going to 10 and "undoing it".

BTW, each OS uses (obviously) more resources, but the minimum requirements are supposed to be the same from vista -> 10.

Either way, I was more going for a takeoff on the original rant ;D

 

[TeT]

Vista was garbage.

Get 7Pro x64, you'll never regret it.

Rant over ;D

How's Vista garbage? People didn't like it because computers were not powerful enough to run it smoothly. Run it on a new recently released computer and it will fly.

Its OK, but I have a computer that is powerful enough to run it. Am looking forward to 8 on a touch screen though...

 

[Rockets95]

Windows 7 is Windows Vista fixed.

 

[tolusina]

...

I work in IT ….

…......Install the service pack and run Windows update. The drivers should be updated before you attempt any application installs.

If you can swing it, get yourself a 250 GB SSD and install Windows 7 on it and all your applications. You will be surprised how fast Win 7 install on a SSD drive. Save your HDD as a data drive, ….

I built a PC and helped my nephew build one for himself about a year ago. Sourced all the parts except for the motherboard, cpu and power supply from newegg.com. I live about 2 hrs drive from the S.F. bay area and found a good price on a package deal (motherboard, CPU and PS) from a local computer store in Santa Clara:

http://www.microcenter.com/default.aspx?

It's actually fun to build a computer . Really. Just allow yourself about 8 hrs. if its your first build.
I believe newegg had some DIY videos at one time on YouTube as well as their website......

For those of us not in IT, it's difficult to keep up with the state of the art, well, for me anyway, I suspect for many others as well.
Having not kept up to speed, the most difficult and time consuming part of a new PC build is researching component selection, I spent months.
I reverse showroomed my build, that is, I did a lot of research on line, final purchase was made in a retail store.

I chose ASUS for the motherboard based on features and prior experience with the brand, read a lot of reviews.

I found NewEgg very helpful, many individual product pages have links to the corresponding Manufacturer's product page(s).

I ended up purchasing at MicroCenter as there's one not too far away from my current location in MI.
I've since placed some other orders with NewEgg.
When I lived in the Monterey Bay area of California I built a couple of PCs from Fry's, another from Central Computers in Santa Clara as they specialize in ASUS and only a few other quality motherboard brands. Perhaps Central is who lilmsmaggie is thinking of?

I've been quite satisfied dealing with NewEgg, Fry's, Central and MicroCenter with some qualifications to that statement.

NewEgg's web site has a ton of information which is very very helpful but I found no way to get any sort of human assistance in purchasing decisions at least by phone, I didn't even want to try on-line chat on the matter. Contrast with B&H phone ordering where staff understands your questions and has (or gets) answers.
Fry's are Walmart huge, getting knowledgeable help is hit or miss. Best if you know what you want going in.
Central and Micro Center are much smaller and more personal, generally more knowledgeable than at Fry's. Still helps if you have a good idea what you want going in.
I would buy from any of those four again.

The actual physical build time was maybe two hours on my latest, earlier builds took about an hour with simpler gear.
Minimal tools are needed, a small Phillips, magnetic is good, small needle nose or large tweezers, a cutter of some sort to open packaging and trim ties, good light and maybe a magnifier.
OS install on modern hardware was pretty quick, maybe 20 minutes or so.
Service pack installation should not be needed, just buy Windows & SP1 and the SP is already integrated in.
Drivers come with motherboards and some other components, often there are updated versions on line.
Installation time of other programs varies widely according to program selection.

Instead of a single 250GB SSD I used two, one for the OS and programs, the second for files. I added a 1TB HD for back up, an optical bay mounted slot loader bay for additional and redundant back up.
- - -

Choosing components is the part I found most difficult.

I started with the desire to have a fully color controlled work flow for stills.
I decided on a wide gamut monitor with an integrated calibration solution from NEC. DisplayPort was the video interface that sounded most attractive so that choice narrowed motherboard and processor choices.
I have no interest in shooting video so I went with on board graphics instead of a discrete video card. Modern on board graphics are very capable.

I'm fussy about memory, I'll choose only from the motherboard manufacturer's recommendations and max out from there, same for the processor.

I like excess capacity from the power supply and modular connections to keep the inside of the case tidy, both for aesthetics and air flow.

Choose a case for fans and air flow, drive mounts and then appearance to taste.

Noctua makes exquisitely beautiful fans and coolers though the colors are bland to say the least.
Whatever brand of fans and coolers you choose, if the motherboard supports Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) fans, spend for those.
Stock processor coolers are barely adequate, two steps up is plenty, no need to go nuts.

The final bit of color management is a printer/ink/paper profiler.
Calibrate the monitor when it's well warmed up with minimized ambient light, profile the printer/ink/paper combination to be used, soft proof in Lightroom or whatever using the desired profile and minimized ambient light, what you then see on your screen will match the printer output very closely.

 

[dswtan]

Building PCs from scratch? I leave that to the real enthusiasts or people with time on their hands. If you go to Cyberpower or IBuyPower in the US (at least), you pay very little for the build and yet get a reasonably nice, fairly tested, and very flexible configuration of components that are ready to go and much better value than a mainstream brand PC.

Selective component upgrading (SSD, extra HDs, more memory, better graphics, etc.) is worth it every 12-24 months for many people, as long as the technology is improving -- and it mostly does, in various ways. But OS upgrades are seldom worth the trouble, so I'm sympathetic to sticking with an older OS as long as you don't fall too far behind -- in which case, it's time to move on to newer hardware, which seems to be the case here with Harv actually.

But I am fortunate to just get a new machine every couple of years and keep the older one as a backup, as some others have suggested here. I watch for the significant (not the minor) CPU generational upgrades. For the last couple of machines, I went with the above pre-built options (both companies).