Canon Rebel T4i [CR2]

[tomsop]

As owner of a Rebel XT, I think whatever is announced will be a big upgrade for me. My issue is even when t4i is announced, is this the best choice? Right now I am leaning to the Nikon 3200. I would rather stay with Canon so I could keep my 2 lenses but Nikon's autofocus features and 24 MP sounds really good. The current rumor seems to make the changes sound really incremental to me but maybe I don't know enough to appreciate the announcement. It seems like for me the t3i focusing was really slow and most of the videos I see the camera is always trying to focus. Of the crop sensor segment it is the most popular but I did not get a sense that it was being bought by serious hobbyists. I am a casual user but would like to make sure my camera is a better investment that allows me to be creative with still and video but gives me room to grow with both features

Should I be looking at other cameras besides the upcoming t4i?

 

[iTasneem]

I hope canon don't raise the price to $999... and i hope they use xx0D naming over the Txi.

 

[!Xabbu]

I am inclined to wait for the 70d, but could be tempted if:
-improve AF (not expecting 7D here, just better than the past rebels)
-at least 6fps (with at least 12 raw buffer)
-better high ISO performance

Get a 60D - it has exactly the specs you name above (apart from the better high ISO, which will need a new sensor). If they would put these features in the T4i, it would be a 60D in a less ergonomic, but smaller body. Not sure that this would make sense from a marketing standpoint.

 

[Marsu42]

Get a 60D - it has exactly the specs you name above (apart from the better high ISO, which will need a new sensor). If they would put these features in the T4i, it would be a 60D in a less ergonomic, but smaller body. Not sure that this would make sense from a marketing standpoint.

Exactly - the xxxd series has another market position, it's not just a feature-cut xxd, but many video users like it with magic lantern because you strictly don't need the 60d's features over the 600d's for video. So it's a sound speculation to say Canon might try to catch up on video/live view af now that they've announced silent usm lenses and is primes.

I have to wonder whether the 7D's AF system will find its way into more of Canon's DSLRs.

Probably never - at least the customizations are too "pro" to be trickled down, the af (next to ff sensor) is a major selling point for expensive bodies. And too many af points in the viewfinder will disturb entry users like Ma and Dad.

As far as IQ goes, the current 18MP sensor has its weaknesses, but it is good enough that if you can't produce good images with it, then photography is probably not your thing.I think we have reached a stage where improvements in sensors won't necessarily benefit everyone. On the other hand, improved specs are what marketing departments are looking for to sell cameras.

What's good? My 60d has a good iq, but with flash I'm at least at iso 400, and at iso 800 in no time when shooting macro or something that moves and this shows when raising shadows in post.

Everyone will benefit from improved iso performance - imagine you can be at 1/4000s all the time in daylight or shoot noise free-pictures at iso 6400 indoors with your kit lens stopped down if you don't care about bokeh. At the same time, the latter might be the reason this won't happen too soon - if Canon wants to keep up fast lens sales, they improve iso marginally and go for higher mp because Nikon has them.

 

[tomscott]

Problem is where do you draw the line for beginner SLRs?

Half the specs on here that people are after are more in the XXD line so it wont happen.

From history, the XXXDs will be slow but in a great compact design, but still offer great IQ and a menu system that will allow you to grow. Which IMO is the correct way to go or you eat into your higher quality SLR list then gives an upgrade path.

Problems I see is that the competition are replying to Canons dominance by making the cheaper SLRs more into the medium sector better MP and a better skill set. So in this respect if Canon are to compete they must update the whole line meaning the 700D 70D and 7D MKII so as not to play themselves out of the game.

We are not talking 5Ds here, lets get off that band wagon. We are talking consumer products the im sure that the XXXDs will outsell the pro lines at least 10-1 so we are talking bread and butter and they must get this right especially with the Nikon D5200.

6-8fps is the base line for semi pro DSLRs like the 60D and 7D. I just hope they improve the 60D so it is back into the XXD product line and the 7D MKII does something extraordinary to put it into the pro category for crop sensor Canon cameras.

So would 5fps be a good base? better than the competition and a nice range. Maybe that is too fast? But if they did this the XXD would have to be at least 7 even 8 so the 7D MKII will have to be 10FPS and that will put it in 1DX territory so again I don't no whether they will. Although the crop will be the definitive factor between the two which is enough but again the old discussion between the 1.6 crop on longer lenses is a big deal.

Problem is that 18mp sensor wasn't that great... I think ok for the consumer cameras but I think they should put some distance between it and the 7D this time instead of recycling the tech. Although the 7D is a much better camera technically and ergonomically at the end of the day for still life you can get the same results and I dont think the 7D sensor is good enough for pros/semi pros the 40D had better noise characteristics at low ISO than the 18mp sensor and low ISO is the holy grail! Everyone will automatically go there to get the best quality in the right conditions so that was a bit of a kick in the teeth as thats where I primarily shoot. Which is why I didn't buy one.

It will be interesting where they go from here. They could be in trouble hope they get it right.

I just wish they would innovate instead of trying to be safe! Its the first step generally to show that a company is going in a wrong direction.

 

[garyploski]

After I missed the 7D for $1199 yesterday this brought me out my state and has me very ;D!

Does anyone have a take on what coming soon/very soon generally means to CR? Both were referenced in this post.ß

 

[dstppy]

Excellent.

The 60D and 7D are in NO need of an update. :

 

[tomscott]

Excellent.

The 60D and 7D are in NO need of an update. :

If they bring a new sensor out for the 700D then there will be a need for update. The 60D needs updating to bring it back in line the XXD previously were. Was a disappointment for most XXD users. I agree with the 7D but then it would be nice to have a better sensor in it. I would buy it then. No point in buying something new for the IQ to be worse than previous models.

 

[stabmasterasron]

I am inclined to wait for the 70d, but could be tempted if:
-improve AF (not expecting 7D here, just better than the past rebels)
-at least 6fps (with at least 12 raw buffer)
-better high ISO performance

Get a 60D - it has exactly the specs you name above (apart from the better high ISO, which will need a new sensor). If they would put these features in the T4i, it would be a 60D in a less ergonomic, but smaller body. Not sure that this would make sense from a marketing standpoint.

Yes, but the t4i has to be updated compared to the t3i, else why call it the next generation of rebel? The t3i has a 3.7 fps burst rate. Is it that big of a leap to give it 6fps? It would best the new Nikon offering. So what if it is faster than the old 60D, that camera will be out of production before Christmas. I would guess the 70D will have at least 8fps.

But yes, I get your point, these specs are essentially the 60D. And in reality my next camera will be something from the xxD line. I can't see getting another rebel. The IQ is OK, just not enough quick flexibility for me. And it feels a little flimsy.

The big question is where does the Rebel line go? Because the mirrorless cams are starting to make a good argument as an alternative to an entry level DSLR. Does canon make the Rebels mirrorless? Does it take the Rebels upscale to put some distance between them and the mirrorless? And if Canon does take the rebel upscale, what does that do to the xxD line? Anyway, it is a great time to be in the market for a new camera - things are getting interesting.

 

[xtaski]

I'm new to these forums, but what is wrong with the current T3i sensor? What could they do to make it better in the T4i? I just bought a T3i and was curious what issues people are aware of...

 

[mrdiger]

As owner of a Rebel XT, I think whatever is announced will be a big upgrade for me. My issue is even when t4i is announced, is this the best choice? Right now I am leaning to the Nikon 3200. I would rather stay with Canon so I could keep my 2 lenses but Nikon's autofocus features and 24 MP sounds really good

Hi,
take a look at the D3200 preview on dpreview.com.
There is much more noise on D3200 than on the 600d, when your compare ISO 1600 or higher. Maybe, 24MP look only beautiful on the Nikon sample pics.
Greetings
Marcus

 

[Marine03]

I'm new to these forums, but what is wrong with the current T3i sensor? What could they do to make it better in the T4i? I just bought a T3i and was curious what issues people are aware of...

I have a 450D but my understanding is that it's a 3? Year or older sensor it's starting to be surpassed by competitors and I think 800 is like make ISO for clean images.

 

[dstppy]

Excellent.

The 60D and 7D are in NO need of an update. :

If they bring a new sensor out for the 700D then there will be a need for update. The 60D needs updating to bring it back in line the XXD previously were. Was a disappointment for most XXD users. I agree with the 7D but then it would be nice to have a better sensor in it. I would buy it then. No point in buying something new for the IQ to be worse than previous models.

Honestly, a 7D with nothing more than the Digic V would be a notable improvement. Not 'sell your 7D' improvement, but it would definitely be worth putting out if there was nothing else in the pipes.

From another thread:

Note that there are two 'flavors' - Digic5 and Digic5+.

The new Digic 5 processor is 6X faster and creates 75% less noise than the Digic 4 processor.

Compared with the predecessor, Canon's DIGIC 4 Image Processor, the Dual DIGIC 5+ Image Processor offers approximately 17x faster processing speed, and feature new algorithms that promote greater noise reduction at higher ISOs.

Looking back, they could easily get away with making a 70D that's only improvements were Digic5 and re-adding MFA . . .

 

[preppyak]

Yes, but the t4i has to be updated compared to the t3i, else why call it the next generation of rebel? The t3i has a 3.7 fps burst rate. Is it that big of a leap to give it 6fps? It would best the new Nikon offering.

Yes, that would be a huge increase, nearly doubling the fps. It would best the 60D, the 5dII, and put itself in line with the 5dIII or 7D...which are pro bodies that sell at more than double the price.

Remember, the Ti cameras are entry level; the point of crippling them a little is that people who need features (faster fps, lower iso, weather sealing, great AF) upgrade to a line that has them. If they make the T4i better than the 60D and give it features that make it even close to the 7D, they'll have destroyed any upgrade path in the APS-C line. Who would buy a 60D if the T4i had a new sensor, did 6fps and had 19pt AF? Or a 7D for that matter? And what they'd have to upgrade the 60D/7D to to get sales back would be insane; they'd basically be an APS-C version of the 1DX, and for <$2000? Not happening.

I'd say new sensor, Digic V, little better fps (4-4.5), maybe slightly better AF system, and they'll use a variation of the video AF that Nikon has used for a while. And nobody who wants good video will use it, because the Nikon AF for video is terrible; similar to pressing the shutter button and letting it hunt. Their last update was a flip out screen, I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[stabmasterasron]

Yes, but the t4i has to be updated compared to the t3i, else why call it the next generation of rebel? The t3i has a 3.7 fps burst rate. Is it that big of a leap to give it 6fps? It would best the new Nikon offering.

Yes, that would be a huge increase, nearly doubling the fps. It would best the 60D, the 5dII, and put itself in line with the 5dIII or 7D...which are pro bodies that sell at more than double the price.

Remember, the Ti cameras are entry level; the point of crippling them a little is that people who need features (faster fps, lower iso, weather sealing, great AF) upgrade to a line that has them. If they make the T4i better than the 60D and give it features that make it even close to the 7D, they'll have destroyed any upgrade path in the APS-C line. Who would buy a 60D if the T4i had a new sensor, did 6fps and had 19pt AF? Or a 7D for that matter? And what they'd have to upgrade the 60D/7D to to get sales back would be insane; they'd basically be an APS-C version of the 1DX, and for <$2000? Not happening.

I'd say new sensor, Digic V, little better fps (4-4.5), maybe slightly better AF system, and they'll use a variation of the video AF that Nikon has used for a while. And nobody who wants good video will use it, because the Nikon AF for video is terrible; similar to pressing the shutter button and letting it hunt. Their last update was a flip out screen, I'm not expecting miracles.

You are right. Keep it simple. And if I am upgrading from a p&s - the mirrorless looks a lot better to me. Same specifications for the money (in some cases the mirrorless are better). And it is smaller too - where do I sign up? Of course I know the advantages of a larger body and the advantages of having lots of glass to choose from - but p&s upgraders may not. So, did you read the rest of my post? I asked the same question you did - if canon has to take the rebels upscale to distance themselves from the mirrorless - what does that do to the xxD line? 7D is already a mini 1Dmkiv for less than $2k.

 

[preppyak]

So, did you read the rest of my post? I asked the same question you did - if canon has to take the rebels upscale to distance themselves from the mirrorless - what does that do to the xxD line? 7D is already a mini 1Dmkiv for less than $2k.

I did, but I didn't want to leave too long a post. I think that's why we are hearing that the 7D might not get updated. In a way, Canon spread themselves too thin...too many options that are hard to differentiate and upgrade, especially with other companies pushing them. Also, the 7D is so reasonably priced for what they could have charged. I think the 70D will go back to what the 50D was, a nice body with some weather sealing, it'll have the FPS a sports guy needs, MFA, etc. And then maybe down the line Canon will push a 7Dii at a higher price point (think $2000+) with Dual Digic V and 8-10fps. But, the 5DIII can handle sports, it just lacks the APS-C reach for those lenses. Not sure how they'll handle that

What's made Canon so smart these last 6-8 months is how many people they got to buy T2i and T3i's because of sales, while Nikon sat on their defined retailer pricing. Means they can make a lot of money off lenses in the future. And right now, they are well ahead of the mirror less guys in the lens department. I know I didn't buy the A77 or NEX's (despite needing a small, light body) because my lens options were maybe 1/10th what they were for Canon.

 

[stabmasterasron]

So, did you read the rest of my post? I asked the same question you did - if canon has to take the rebels upscale to distance themselves from the mirrorless - what does that do to the xxD line? 7D is already a mini 1Dmkiv for less than $2k.

I did, but I didn't want to leave too long a post. I think that's why we are hearing that the 7D might not get updated. In a way, Canon spread themselves too thin...too many options that are hard to differentiate and upgrade, especially with other companies pushing them. Also, the 7D is so reasonably priced for what they could have charged. I think the 70D will go back to what the 50D was, a nice body with some weather sealing, it'll have the FPS a sports guy needs, MFA, etc. And then maybe down the line Canon will push a 7Dii at a higher price point (think $2000+) with Dual Digic V and 8-10fps. But, the 5DIII can handle sports, it just lacks the APS-C reach for those lenses. Not sure how they'll handle that

What's made Canon so smart these last 6-8 months is how many people they got to buy T2i and T3i's because of sales, while Nikon sat on their defined retailer pricing. Means they can make a lot of money off lenses in the future. And right now, they are well ahead of the mirror less guys in the lens department. I know I didn't buy the A77 or NEX's (despite needing a small, light body) because my lens options were maybe 1/10th what they were for Canon.

Well, I think there are a sufficient number of people out there that have a need for a high quality aps-c body (7dmkii) that they would be able to sell lots of bodies if they play there cards right (especially if they can deliver dual digic 5 and 10fps for less than $2k). But yes the mirrorless will continue to be a problem eroding sales on the bottom end. It may squeeze the aps-c bodies into a tighter formation.

 

[tomsop]

I am confused. If the T4i is going to have slightly better ISO and FPS performance over the t3i and perhaps autofocus, if I am upgrading from a Rebel XT - should I go for the t4i or look higher up the line or should I be waiting to see what other cameras get upgraded. In other words, should I wait or just get a different camera now? I don't want to get a 7D if they are going to be upgrading that as well - I want better than XT but I also want to future proof my next purchase to a reasonable extent.

 

[stabmasterasron]

I am confused. If the T4i is going to have slightly better ISO and FPS performance over the t3i and perhaps autofocus, if I am upgrading from a Rebel XT - should I go for the t4i or look higher up the line or should I be waiting to see what other cameras get upgraded. In other words, should I wait or just get a different camera now? I don't want to get a 7D if they are going to be upgrading that as well - I want better than XT but I also want to future proof my next purchase to a reasonable extent.

If you shoot primarily stills, the 7D is still a great buy and even if it is updated to mk ii, the original won't be "out of date" for many more years.

 

[D_Rochat]

I am confused. If the T4i is going to have slightly better ISO and FPS performance over the t3i and perhaps autofocus, if I am upgrading from a Rebel XT - should I go for the t4i or look higher up the line or should I be waiting to see what other cameras get upgraded. In other words, should I wait or just get a different camera now? I don't want to get a 7D if they are going to be upgrading that as well - I want better than XT but I also want to future proof my next purchase to a reasonable extent.

I wouldn't hold off on buying a 7D just because they are due to replace it. We don't even have a CR1 on a 7D yet and who knows if/when they will be announced, let alone available for purchase. That being said, even if a replacement was anounced tomorrow, the 7D is still a great camera and is lightyears better than a Rebel XT. There's more to the 7D than just the "old" sensor.

It's hard to recommend an upgrade when I don't know what you like to shoot or how often, but anything being sold today will be a good upgrade. I personally wouldn't go from Rebel to Rebel and would at least shoot for a xxD, but my needs may be different that yours.