Canon Rebel T4i [CR2]

[!Xabbu]

ASPC makes up the vast majority of Canons DSLR sales so I think your rather premature in believe its on the way out.

A wise enterprise predicts future markets and reacts accordingly. Kodak had global domination of the analog film market, and when the tech changed maybe they thought too: "this makes up the vast majority of our sales, so why would it be on its way out?". And look what happened to Kodak.

The difference here is that FF digital is not a new technology and it doesn't have any inherent advantages to APS-C (unlike digital sensors vs. film). They are both the same technology just in different sizes. If your statement would be true, everything should develop towards larger sensors. However, the majority of cameras built have tiny sensors (mobile phones) - the next biggest group will soon be mirror-less and I don't believe that we will see a mirror-less FF soon. The reason people buy these is because they are not as bulky as a DSLR (a FF sensor and the needed lens would counter this "advantage"). So, Canon might miss the future market in mirror-less development - agreed.

However, until mirror-less are focusing as fast as DSLRs we will still have a very healthy APS-C market.

 

[osvaldod]

Hi !!
I have a SX30 IS and I would like to get into DSRL. I'm thinking in buying a 600D but I discovered this thred talking about the 650D. When do you think this new camera will be released in Europe?
I live in Argentina and my wife is in Europe now until end of May. I dont think the 650D will be released before that time so do you think the 600D is good enough to begin with DSRL?
Of course, Im not a professional and I use my SX30 IS with CHDK to save in RAW format.
I also knew about Magic Lantern thru this forum. Is it another version of CHDK ??

 

[D_Rochat]

I dont think the 650D will be released before that time so do you think the 600D is good enough to begin with DSRL?

The 450D is good enough to start off with, so yes the 600D is more than enough! I'd even say that if you don't mind not having a flippy swively screen, go for the 550D. It's pretty much the same thing but a little cheaper. Save yourself a little money on the body and get yourself another lens like a 50 1.8.

 

[Marsu42]

I dont think the 650D will be released before that time so do you think the 600D is good enough to begin with DSRL? I also knew about Magic Lantern thru this forum. Is it another version of CHDK ??

We had this question a couple of times, and for it has an even more certain answer: Get a 600d now, because it runs magic lantern while the 650d with its new digic5 won't for some time, if ever.

Apart the "swivel screen isn't pro" opinion from guys who mostly never used one for an extended time, imho the swivel screen is handy in some situations and has now drawback, so given the minor price difference nowadays either get a new 600d or a used 550d. Magic lantern is basically chdk for eos bodies with a lot more features, see http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ

 

[AdamJ]

Just my $0.02 on AF. To my mind, good AF shouldn't be, and won't be, an extra feature confined to the better bodies. It's too fundamental to the camera's overall performance. My expectation is that, sooner or later, the 7D's AF system will become the standard AF system for all APS-C bodies.

 

[D_Rochat]

Just my $0.02 on AF. To my mind, good AF shouldn't be, and won't be, an extra feature confined to the better bodies. It's too fundamental to the camera's overall performance. My expectation is that, sooner or later, the 7D's AF system will become the standard AF system for all APS-C bodies.

I agree that we may see an upgraded AF system in the xxD line, but I doubt we'll see anything other than the standard 9 point in the xxxD line. They're purposely going to limit what goes into the xxxD to encourage people to move up.

 

[xtaski]

I use my DSLR for photography, so I have very little need for video features other than the convenience of that option being there. Just my 2 cents, but the only reason I upgraded from a T1i (500D) to a T3i (600D) was the ability to use my Speedlite 430 EX II as a wireless slave. There was very little other than some improvements in video that made the upgrade worth it. Other than that, more megapixels to play with... not much else new IMO.

 

[well_dunno]

The 650D or T4i is going to have a digic 5 processor that is 6 times faster than digic 4, so it is going to have more cpu power than the 7D as it is... I do not know what it will transform into but my guess is less noise and higher fps. I do wish it would get the AF from the 7D but I am afraid it will have the same 9 point AF again : Otherwise not much would remain to distinguish it from a 70D and and potentially a 7DmarkII unless they use the digic 5+ on those to do some other miracles... IMHO anyway...

Cheers!

 

[osvaldod]

Thank you for your replies and opinion. Now, Im more decided on getting the 600D. I think in getting this combo. What do you think about it?
http://www.amazon.de/Canon-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-schwenkbares-Double-Zoom-Kit/dp/B004P8IX5C/ref=lh_ni_t

 

[D_Rochat]

Thank you for your replies and opinion. Now, Im more decided on getting the 600D. I think in getting this combo. What do you think about it?
http://www.amazon.de/Canon-SLR-Digitalkamera-Megapixel-schwenkbares-Double-Zoom-Kit/dp/B004P8IX5C/ref=lh_ni_t

I think that's an excellent starter kit and you won't be disappointed. That kit should keep you happy for quite some time.

 

[Marsu42]

Thank you for your replies and opinion. Now, Im more decided on getting the 600D. I think in getting this combo. What do you think about it?

I think you'd ask yourself if you really need the tele kit lens - while std range kit lenses are ok stopped down, imho there are few things worse than a cheap tele zoom because the image quality not very good and in many cases you're better off shooting with a better, shorter lens and then crop. If this is your first dlsr, you have much to learn and after some month will be better equipped to tell what your second lens should be.

That being said, the 55-250 doesn't seem to be that crappy apart from build quality - but if you should decide to get it later, it's sold on ebay for a bargain because many kit users are upgrading to something more worthwile... or if you want it new after all, there's a 30€ cashback running for it until end of June in Germany: http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/03/electronics/features/canon/Canon_CashBack_Teilnahmebedingungen.pdf

 

[osvaldod]

Well. I usually use telezoom, that's why I would like that double kit. And yes, I have much to learn. I don´t know if I will buy it yet. It depends on other things but and I'm very anxious to get it. I will know it sometime this month.
Is there any place where I can download some RAW images (and JPGs) taken with 600D? I would like to develop them with Adobe Lightroom and see what is the result specially with the noise.

 

[Marsu42]

Is there any place where I can download some RAW images (and JPGs) taken with 600D? I would like to develop them with Adobe Lightroom and see what is the result specially with the noise.

600d has the same sensor as 550d/60d/7d (the latter has the worst iq due to banding): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Canon+cr2+samples&l=1#

 

[dr croubie]

600d has the same sensor as 550d/60d/7d (the latter has the worst iq due to banding): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Canon+cr2+samples&l=1#

And yet the 7D has the higher score on DxO?

 

[Marsu42]

And yet the 7D has the higher score on DxO?

This tells something about dxo scores - 5d3 owners obviously think so, too. And the strength of banding on the 7d seems to vary some from copy to copy, so you might be lucky with your 7d sample. And banding occurs when raising dark areas. so if you expose properly to begin with you won't see it - it occurs on the 60d, too, but to a lesser extent. Anyway: http://a2bart.com/tech/allcamdknz.htm

 

[rubidium]

Hope we get some specs soon. Discounted 600D is looking pretty tempting.

 

[dr croubie]

Hope we get some specs soon. Discounted 600D is looking pretty tempting.

I always keep track of ebay auctions, check this one out:
EFs 10-22 go for $550-650 second hand
600D I checked, seem to go for $400-600 second hand ($350 i saw for waterdamaged repair-only)
50/1.8 II go for $60-70 new, no idea what 2nd hand.

I saw an auction for all 3 together (in apparently very good nick, <2k shutter on the 600D) go for only $930 yesterday. I certainly wanted in on it (just to split and resell, maybe keep the 10-22), but didn't have the cash. Maybe the 600D is lowering in 2nd hand price from anticipation of the 650D? maybe nikon has killed their market? Either way, that equated to a $300 600D with a free niftyfifty, there might be more of them to come...

 

[briansquibb]

600d has the same sensor as 550d/60d/7d (the latter has the worst iq due to banding): http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Canon+cr2+samples&l=1#

And yet the 7D has the higher score on DxO?

That sounds more of a reflection on the DxO scoring ....

 

[osvaldod]

I think most of you are professional. How do you manage noise in RAW photos (with Lightroom or Photoshop with Camera Raw). I usually change the luminance and color in Noise Reduction but when I do this I lose details.

 

[Marsu42]

I think most of you are professional. How do you manage noise in RAW photos (with Lightroom or Photoshop with Camera Raw). I usually change the luminance and color in Noise Reduction but when I do this I lose details.

You don't need to be a pro to figure out nr in Lightroom: 1. use LR4, it has smarter shadow recovery and thus less need for nr, 2. only denoise so much that your final export size doesn't show more noise than you can live with (i.e. don't denoise at 100% crop and loose detail no matter what), 3. if needed counter nr with sharpening until artifacts show up, the default settings usually work pretty ok, but you can get much more out of it by tweaking the parameters - watch/read tutorials for this, it cannot be covered in one post, 4. if all fails try adaptive denoising with Noise Ninja as an alternative.