Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

[cbphoto]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

I'd be interested in a Canon smartphone, assuming it had an open architecture for apps.

We haven't used either of our Canon p&s cameras in four years—since we bought iPhones.

 

[Daniel Flather]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.

True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

And with Sony introducing a smartphone with a 20 megapixel camera, water resistent to 5 feet, and shoots 4K video, this is an awful hard market for a non-phone to compete in.....

 

[Dylan777]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late :

don't see how this changes the equation. Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook. Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube. Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat. Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan! Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device. Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here. Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants). Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!

Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope.

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late :

don't see how this changes the equation. Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook. Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube. Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat. Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan! Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device. Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here. Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants). Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!

Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope.

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again

I still don't get how FF mirrorless changes this equation man. Like I said "Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)." If your looking to spend $200 on a camera (which is what we're talking about here, entry level stuff) then how is FF mirrorless R&D going to help? This market segment isn't gonna buy anything over $1000 - save the select few who want to take it to the next level.

To put it on another level - even mirrorless APS-C doesn't fill the current entry level niche. They could push out a mirrorless rebel for instance, the $600-800 with lens price tag won't be appealing. The are people that are ditching cameras with better IQ for cell phones...

 

[jrbdmb]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late :

don't see how this changes the equation. Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook. Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube. Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat. Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan! Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device. Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here. Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants). Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!

Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope.

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again

I don't think you can compare a $100 P&S to a $2300 A7r.

Unless economies of scale change dramatically, FF mirrorless will never make a significant dent in the market due to its high cost.

 

[jrista]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.

True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.

I think its not just convenience...its the whole "the camera in the hand" argument. I mean, it's convenient having a camera on your phone...but the big issue is that, everyone has their phone. It's ALWAYS on their person. No matter how good a dedicated camera device may be, the only camera that really matters is the one you have on your person, the one you can put in your hand at a moment's notice. There is really no competing with a universal device that is always on and always in hand. Phone camera controls are often very inconvenient. Even Lumia's new Nokia Camera software, while better, is still not convenient. It's tedious. But it's the camera I have in hand all the time.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media. That's what killed P&S cameras. Quality means nothing in this segment.

True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.

I think its not just convenience...its the whole "the camera in the hand" argument. I mean, it's convenient having a camera on your phone...but the big issue is that, everyone has their phone. It's ALWAYS on their person. No matter how good a dedicated camera device may be, the only camera that really matters is the one you have on your person, the one you can put in your hand at a moment's notice. There is really no competing with a universal device that is always on and always in hand. Phone camera controls are often very inconvenient. Even Lumia's new Nokia Camera software, while better, is still not convenient. It's tedious. But it's the camera I have in hand all the time.

Agreed, and that's what I meant by convenience.
Cheers

 

[lopicma]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200. While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package. The A2200 blows it away otherwise.

A720 8mpix
5.8-34.8mm f/2.8-4.8 MACRO capable focus is 1mm or closer!

A2200 14 mpix
5.0-20.0mm f/2.8-5.9

Maybe if Canon had put more effort into lens technology in these low end cameras they would take better pictures than a cell phone? I guess the point is moot now. :-\

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200. While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package. The A2200 blows it away otherwise.

A720 8mpix
5.8-34.8mm f/2.8-4.8 MACRO capable focus is 1mm or closer!

A2200 14 mpix
5.0-20.0mm f/2.8-5.9

Maybe if Canon had put more effort into lens technology in these low end cameras they would take better pictures than a cell phone? I guess the point is moot now. :-\

There are plenty of P&S cameras that take far superior images than any cellphone ... but the majority of the people only want a convenient device that does it all, including taking photos, so if the better lens technology is not in the the cellphone camera, than it means nothing to them.

 

[slclick]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

Who needs those billions?

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200. While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package. The A2200 blows it away otherwise.

A720 8mpix
5.8-34.8mm f/2.8-4.8 MACRO capable focus is 1mm or closer!

A2200 14 mpix
5.0-20.0mm f/2.8-5.9

Maybe if Canon had put more effort into lens technology in these low end cameras they would take better pictures than a cell phone? I guess the point is moot now. :-\

There are plenty of P&S cameras that take far superior images than any cellphone ... but the majority of the people only want a convenient device that does it all, including taking photos, so if the better lens technology is not in the the cellphone camera, than it means nothing to them.

Yup, canon would be better suited partnering with one of the cell companies and making components for cell phones - lenses, or processors, or image sensors than fighting an un-winnable fight to get more cell users onto P&S cameras.

 

[CanNotYet]

Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?

Bumping this. I think the final move to erase the market for budget P&S has been made: http://samsungcamera.com/samsung-introduces-the-galaxy-k-zoom/