Canon USA Announces Canon Log Feature Upgrade for the EOS 5D Mark IV

infared

Kodak Brownie!
Jul 19, 2011
1,416
16
tron said:
infared said:
Mikehit said:
Pebbles said:
Why anyone would buy a 5D4 now is beyond me. It's a Turkey. They know it too. This is a last-ditch effort to keep it relevant. Look at what the competition are doing.

Because I take stills and don't give a stuff about video.
That good enough reason?
I think if can had done without the filter, that the resolution (although fewer pixels) would be more competitive with the Sony or the Nikon. Right?
Yes..I am stills only, too. I was on the fence about the 5DIV. (Have and continue to own 5D Mark III). Researched, a LOT. I have quite a bit of high end EF-mount glass. Looked at the Sony, looked at the 5DS R...and came back to the 5DIV...Because of its balance of handling, compitent interaction with its great lens selection and not "huge" file size. The price is a choker...but I found gray market at $2750. I absolutely love the camera. It was the best choice for me and "my" needs, even though it was not at the top of the heap in the FF resolution dept. I found that the cameras that are at the "top" of that heap had handling and/or noise problems that made them not the best choice for my needs.
It makes me happy to know that Canon is charging separately for some of this video capability that I have NEVER use/used. I would like to see more of that separation for cost savings in the future from Canon.
I thiink it would have been even better if Canon had offered a model without the anti-aliasing filter. That would have been great!
+1 for the AA filter. Or they could possibly compromise with one model only with relatively week filter (I do not know though if would be the best or the worst of both worlds). As far as the separately charged video feature(s) I believe that the current price of 5DIV should apply for the updated model. The current (as is) model should be cheaper to begin with (talking mainly about European price)

Well...I agree...I think in this market..the body should be cheaper...but Canon knows that they have us. I have 13 EF-Mount lenses....so ...as of now it would take something monumental to get me to change systems...and as far as adapters go...too more lens connection points, slow focus....etc...on and on....no thanks.
There are a lot of choices for everyone though....so it's all good!
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
GMCPhotographics said:
Mikehit said:
Pebbles said:
Why anyone would buy a 5D4 now is beyond me. It's a Turkey. They know it too. This is a last-ditch effort to keep it relevant. Look at what the competition are doing.

Because I take stills and don't give a stuff about video.
That good enough reason?

I'm guessing that the 5D4 isn't selling as well as previous models. There hasn't been much of a price drop since it's launch a year ago, which is unusual. Both the 5D2 and 5D3 sales were hugely buffered by the "run and gun" film crowd

how the heck do you know any of that.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
HarryFilm said:
rrcphoto said:
Canon Rumors said:
After all these years, I still get burned on misinformation from time to time, though a lot less than at the beginning. I should have stopped at the C-Log.

When you're right, no on says anything. When you're wrong..... omg! The hate emails have started already :p

For the record, The EF 85mm f/1.4L IS is real and will be coming in a few months (along with the 6D2)!

I'm sure canon is receiving some hate emails too.. i noticed some on dpreview stating it as fact yesterday. lol.

it was a pretty amazing rumor though. the dude spent alot of time on it.

maybe it has been discussed and bandied about.. do you remember how fare back the C700 specs were?

or it could be a mythical beast called a 5DC.. that canon will upgrade 5D Mark IV's into for a fee.

---

For the kicker, those C700 specs that came out OVER A YEAR BEFORE the actual release, I thought came pretty close to the actual camera other than the different form factor. (i.e. Remember that massive brochure on the very C500-like C700x? - the pages are STILL on Google Images and they are darn close to being spot on with the real C700 camera in terms of specs!)

I'm gonna say that SOMEBODY knows more than they're letting on ...SOOOOO.... don't be too surprised to see a Full Frame Mirrorless Canon Camera any day now or even a large-sensor Medium Format Canon Camera in the near future (i.e. within two years!).

Maybe the film side is much leakier, as they are dealing with producers, hollywood,etc probably given them prototype units as they need them,etc. it was even a brochure format if i recall. it was pretty much dead on. In all the years of following canon rumors, it's the only time I can recall soemthing like that happening so far in advance.

and thank you btw, for your longer sentences, so much easier to read.

I wouldn't be shocked by a full frame 6D like mirrorless EF mount camera alongside the 6D EF mount DSLR.

IMO .. I think that would be easy for canon to do. I could be wrong though - all that EVF firmware,etc is tied up into the powershot firmware, so it could be alot of heavy lifting adding all that into a EOS camera.
 
Apr 20, 2017
1
0
I haven't shot video with a Canon dslr for a year or two and the main reason is (aside from the lack of log) because there is no focus peaking.
My Canon G1X has that.

Is the Mark lV still missing focus peaking?
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
756
104
icbwbidi said:
I haven't shot video with a Canon dslr for a year or two and the main reason is (aside from the lack of log) because there is no focus peaking.
My Canon G1X has that.

Is the Mark lV still missing focus peaking?

Yes, because...Cinema EOS ::)
 

PHOTOPROROCKIES

EOS M50
Sep 15, 2016
44
0
GMCPhotographics said:
Mikehit said:
Pebbles said:
Why anyone would buy a 5D4 now is beyond me. It's a Turkey. They know it too. This is a last-ditch effort to keep it relevant. Look at what the competition are doing.

Because I take stills and don't give a stuff about video.
That good enough reason?

I'm guessing that the 5D4 isn't selling as well as previous models. There hasn't been much of a price drop since it's launch a year ago, which is unusual. Both the 5D2 and 5D3 sales were hugely buffered by the "run and gun" film crowd, I think parts of the Marvel Avengers film where made with it some of the hand cam scenes. The problem with the 5D4 is that it's lost that film fan base and they have gone else where. While I'm a stills photographer, it's a better camera for the movie investment. It's hybrid nature helps sell lots of units and allows a better still camera to be built with faster upgrade path than what would have been possible with just a low volume stills camera....But the 5D4 isn't selling too well. It's not featured enough for the movie market and it's too expensive for a lot of photographers. Even professional wedding photographers are choking at the current price, especially whey you can get a near mint late copy of the 5D3 for half the price.

Last time I checked it was April 2017 not September 2017. Hasn't been a year yet.
 

PHOTOPROROCKIES

EOS M50
Sep 15, 2016
44
0
transpo1 said:
icbwbidi said:
I haven't shot video with a Canon dslr for a year or two and the main reason is (aside from the lack of log) because there is no focus peaking.
My Canon G1X has that.

Is the Mark lV still missing focus peaking?

Yes, because...Cinema EOS ::)

Personally I'm really hoping they smarten up and put some basic features like that in. Focus peaking on the x-series system is awesome and makes manual focusing quick and easy.
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
756
104
CarlMillerPhoto said:
neuroanatomist said:
RayValdez360 said:
Let's see someone defend this nonsense. sony is 1 or 2 cameras away from stomping CANON in every aspect but service.

Oh...and sales. ::) ::) ::)

He also forgot....

Video AF
Build quality
Ergonomics
Video touchscreen AF
Color science
Menu structure
Weather sealing
Reliability and heat management

I'm a wedding filmmaker for a living and I have never seen a photog using anything other than Canon/Nikon. Seen a handful shooting film on a Leica or Contax MF, but not a single Sony. Also never seen a Sony in the hands of anyone at an event with a media pass. Sony's seem to be popular with prosumers/enthusiasts. Maybe the A9 will finally introduce Sony to the professional crowd, but that's a TALL mountain to climb and they're just getting started. Still, Canon needs to respond and compete; they need to get the camera and tech nerds excited like Sony is doing.

I will say a lot of my videographer colleagues use Sony, though....

And there it is--> "a lot of my videographer colleagues use Sony..."

I agree with all of the above things that Canon does better, which is why we are talking about improving the video features here, so us filmmakers can go on using these otherwise fine products :)
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
756
104
privatebydesign said:
Canon Rumors said:
There is no "5DC" coming in 2017... beyond that, who knows.

I've said for years the 5D should come in three niche orientated models. How many people that actually work with cameras don't believe that would be the most obvious thing to do with the 5D line?

5DC
5D Mk*
5Ds/r Mk*

Totally agree with this. But Canon is too afraid to cannibalize their Cinema EOS lines to release a 5DC.
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
756
104
privatebydesign said:
Now let's hear the cacaphony of hurt for the $99 cost for the upgrade.

Anybody that believed a fraction of the 'rumor' was in denial. Talk of a hardware upgrade was never going happen to a mass production camera.

Well, the OP (Canonrumors) even believed it. So was he in denial, too? It would be a lot easier for them to just release a 5DC with all of the rumored features.
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
756
104
rrcphoto said:
tr573 said:
rrcphoto said:
wow.. where's that big update that canon was supposed to be because video was so critical to the success of a the camera... (no offense to you CR .. some where using it as "proof" that video was mandatory on DSLR's)

this because of the A9? doubtful. probably some hollywood people wanted it added.

what's odd is that it's not going into the 1DX Mark II.

rrcphoto, I thought you were going to eat some crow based on your being impressed with the specs of the A9 ;)



What's not odd is that all those pie in the sky dreams about XF-AVC 4K are not actually part of this.

thankfully I don't have to eat a healthy diet of crow today.

I honestly doubted and sadly I guess is probably correct, that the DIGIC's in the stills cameras simply can't handle video of any real sort above and beyond 1080p

I honestly don't know what canon is going to do soon and fast - they are starting to really loose the technology race, even to nikon in this regard.

Rrcphoto, weren't you supposed to eat some crow based on the feature set of the A9, which you said you were impressed with? Or was that only if Canon released this non-existent upgrade?

The truth is that the Clog upgrade is an admission by Canon that they feel the video features of the camera are lacking, thus they feel the need to spoon-feed an important upgrade while omitting many other requested video features. It will be interesting to see whether the 1DXII gets it.

I'm sure there are some Canon folks who feel ashamed that their camera is so underspecced on video against the 2017 competition (no 4K video out, no user friendly codec, lack of desirable 4K crop, etc.) but it's obvious the overly cautious managers of the company are winning out. It is possible, though, that the Digic just isn't capable of much video encoding, although the fact that Magic Lantern has enabled 4K video features on the 5DIII would seem to contradict this- the 5DIV chip seems like it would be capable of much more.

What's also interesting is that Sony did not include Slog modes on the A9- perhaps as an overture to stills photographers. Sony needs pro stills guys and Canon will eventually need to get the pro video guys back- ironic.
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
transpo1 said:
rrcphoto said:
tr573 said:
rrcphoto said:
wow.. where's that big update that canon was supposed to be because video was so critical to the success of a the camera... (no offense to you CR .. some where using it as "proof" that video was mandatory on DSLR's)

this because of the A9? doubtful. probably some hollywood people wanted it added.

what's odd is that it's not going into the 1DX Mark II.

rrcphoto, I thought you were going to eat some crow based on your being impressed with the specs of the A9 ;)



What's not odd is that all those pie in the sky dreams about XF-AVC 4K are not actually part of this.

thankfully I don't have to eat a healthy diet of crow today.

I honestly doubted and sadly I guess is probably correct, that the DIGIC's in the stills cameras simply can't handle video of any real sort above and beyond 1080p

I honestly don't know what canon is going to do soon and fast - they are starting to really loose the technology race, even to nikon in this regard.

Rrcphoto, weren't you supposed to eat some crow based on the feature set of the A9, which you said you were impressed with? Or was that only if Canon released this non-existent upgrade?

Nope!

if you read what i wrote to you, I would eat crow if you got the "big" upgrade versus the "meh" C-LOG one. I thought after the A9 release, that the big one may be more likely to occur - but I way always of the mindset that the big one was basically an april fool's joke gone bad and would eat crow if canon actually did it.

besides you never took up the deal, which was if canon didn't deliver the full complete rumored upgrade, you'd stop complaining about canon's camera and video.

this isn't an admission on anything in regards to canon outside the possibility that a hollywood customer asked for this firmware enhancement to work with CINI EOS cameras. which is probably why it's not on the 1DX Mark II - when all other firmware enhancements have started with the 1DX mark II and made it's way down to the 5D. This has happened in the past - with the 5D Mark II. Hollywood asked for firmware updates, canon delivered them. Sooner after the camera release than this.

there's still no tangible evidence that there is this large market that requires the best video on a DSLR when a DSLR is the worst method of doing video in an ILC.

and seriously.. did you read the limitations of 4K on the 5D Mark III - no liveview display,etc,etc and I do believe it's MJPEG.

as of right now the only DIGIC's that can do video the right way are the DIGIC DV's especially made for canon's video cameras. they have nothing in the way of stills DNA in them (see the XC10/15) and they all have to have actively cooled and vented to open air.

I think we can both agree that canon has some technical hurdles that they haven't resolved (which has always been my stance - that canon isn't purposely crippling the cameras, they just haven't done it because .. right now they can't).
 

tr573

EOS RP
Dec 2, 2015
218
0
rrcphoto said:
and seriously.. did you read the limitations of 4K on the 5D Mark III - no liveview display,etc,etc and I do believe it's MJPEG.

Yeah but this one has a IV, that makes it better. So it must be able to do anything people dream of that Canon has shown it to have zero ability whatsoever to do. After all, it's a IV. Do you even understand that's one higher than III?
 

tr573

EOS RP
Dec 2, 2015
218
0
transpo1 said:
Well, the OP (Canonrumors) even believed it. So was he in denial, too? It would be a lot easier for them to just release a 5DC with all of the rumored features.

Admin has also stated in this thread that their lack of familiarity with video tech and the hardware requirements of such led to them believing that rumor enough to publish it.
 

tron

EOS R5
CR Pro
Nov 8, 2011
4,829
1,121
tr573 said:
transpo1 said:
Well, the OP (Canonrumors) even believed it. So was he in denial, too? It would be a lot easier for them to just release a 5DC with all of the rumored features.

Admin has also stated in this thread that their lack of familiarity with video tech and the hardware requirements of such led to them believing that rumor enough to publish it.
That rumor was more plausible than the one about a mirrorless 6DII that I had protested to Admin about a few months ago... Still to give him credit the sad part of having to send camera to Canon is true. I would be more willing with a payable firmware that can be installed by camera owners...
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
756
104
rrcphoto said:
transpo1 said:
rrcphoto said:
tr573 said:
rrcphoto said:
wow.. where's that big update that canon was supposed to be because video was so critical to the success of a the camera... (no offense to you CR .. some where using it as "proof" that video was mandatory on DSLR's)

this because of the A9? doubtful. probably some hollywood people wanted it added.

what's odd is that it's not going into the 1DX Mark II.

rrcphoto, I thought you were going to eat some crow based on your being impressed with the specs of the A9 ;)



What's not odd is that all those pie in the sky dreams about XF-AVC 4K are not actually part of this.

thankfully I don't have to eat a healthy diet of crow today.

I honestly doubted and sadly I guess is probably correct, that the DIGIC's in the stills cameras simply can't handle video of any real sort above and beyond 1080p

I honestly don't know what canon is going to do soon and fast - they are starting to really loose the technology race, even to nikon in this regard.

Rrcphoto, weren't you supposed to eat some crow based on the feature set of the A9, which you said you were impressed with? Or was that only if Canon released this non-existent upgrade?

Nope!

if you read what i wrote to you, I would eat crow if you got the "big" upgrade versus the "meh" C-LOG one. I thought after the A9 release, that the big one may be more likely to occur - but I way always of the mindset that the big one was basically an april fool's joke gone bad and would eat crow if canon actually did it.

besides you never took up the deal, which was if canon didn't deliver the full complete rumored upgrade, you'd stop complaining about canon's camera and video.

this isn't an admission on anything in regards to canon outside the possibility that a hollywood customer asked for this firmware enhancement to work with CINI EOS cameras. which is probably why it's not on the 1DX Mark II - when all other firmware enhancements have started with the 1DX mark II and made it's way down to the 5D. This has happened in the past - with the 5D Mark II. Hollywood asked for firmware updates, canon delivered them. Sooner after the camera release than this.

there's still no tangible evidence that there is this large market that requires the best video on a DSLR when a DSLR is the worst method of doing video in an ILC.

and seriously.. did you read the limitations of 4K on the 5D Mark III - no liveview display,etc,etc and I do believe it's MJPEG.

as of right now the only DIGIC's that can do video the right way are the DIGIC DV's especially made for canon's video cameras. they have nothing in the way of stills DNA in them (see the XC10/15) and they all have to have actively cooled and vented to open air.

I think we can both agree that canon has some technical hurdles that they haven't resolved (which has always been my stance - that canon isn't purposely crippling the cameras, they just haven't done it because .. right now they can't).

I read your "deal" but I did not take you up on it because my pursuit of adequate video features on Canon DSLRs and mirrorless is not limited to one patched upgrade- my complaint is about a more systemic issue with respect to holding back / lack of implementing features.

It's VERY possible that Canon tech is much more limited than I thought- I just assumed from a company that makes so much money and whose sales are so great that they could throw engineers at this issue and deliver. (See the 1DXII's 4K @ 60p- good example of them delivering on a particular feature). I find it hard to believe, however, that they couldn't have gotten 120fps FHD into the Mark IV or implemented better crop options for the 4K therein.

Let's think about what you said here, though- if DSLRs are so terrible for video, why are "Hollywood types" using them at all? Why would that CLog upgrade have been requested? There's plenty of cheaper Sony MILCs with SLog that they could no doubt use instead of a $3.5k stills camera with a mirror in it, right? (I'm being rhetorical here, no need to answer.)

I guess Canon better get off their ***** and make an MILC with 4K and log because sooner or later, those Hollywood types are going to figure out that DSLRs have absolutely no value for video ;)
 

xps

EOS R
Oct 19, 2011
994
104
Middle Europe
Just being interested, the professional Canon service in my area had no final information about the update, but they definitively know, it is just an software adjustment. So why Canon will drain another >100€ for this?
I´m an CPS gold member, so I send my three bodies once a year to CPS to get it cleaned and serviced.
I do not know, if this upgrade is worth the bugs Canon wants for it, as I´m no professional videographer.
If there were some other features added, maybe I´ll do it.

By the way: FW 1.04 has fixed my back button AF problem. :D And I was just in the opinion, this needed double pressing of the buttons (I had to do so to start AF) was normal. +1 for fixing this.
 
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Certainly helps, but should have been there to begin with and then $99.... when a two year old Sony will still produce better quality 4k and who knows what the next one does....
ah well, whatever
it's been a few years since I have purchased a single item of any sort from Canon
a shame
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,727
2,162
Alberta, Canada
LetTheRightLensIn said:
Certainly helps, but should have been there to begin with and then $99.... when a two year old Sony will still produce better quality 4k and who knows what the next one does....
ah well, whatever
it's been a few years since I have purchased a single item of any sort from Canon
a shame

I'm still not doing much video but am determined I will in the near future when my present intensive project is history. I hear comments like "when a two year old Sony will still produce better quality 4k" which seem to suggest that Sony is just so much better, and I can't understand why anyone is still using Canon, other than they like the EF glass, which I do as well. Then I here other comments that Sony has various shortcomings and it's not really so sweet on the other side of the fence. I read a bit on the A9 and noticed it has a new feature, the AF-ON button - what - they didn't have an AF-ON button before?? There are other comments regarding holding a small camera with a big lens being a negative (I concurred with this once I had owned a 1D4 to compare to my 6D), and so forth.

My uneducated conclusion is that it's not nearly as clear cut as you suggest but that Sony is a very viable alternative, especially for video only, but would I want it given that I do primarily stills; I am quite sure I would not. My 3 years or so on CR suggests to me that GAS is the real problem because there are so many camera's that are so good that any creative individual can produce very good results using any of them.

So, in conclusion, I'd say Sony lovers should just buy Sony and be done with it and not worry about being responsible for the demise of Canon. Am I deluded on this?

Jack
 

TAF

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 26, 2012
445
127
Canon is conducting the ultimate market survey.

If they get back 90% of the 5D4's for upgrade, then the folks who say that video its critical are proven correct.

If they get back 10% of the 5D4's sold, then they know that video is a nice to have, but not a factor that will allow them to charge a lot more money. $99 is 3% of the price of the body...which is virtually nothing to the individual but significant at the corporate level. If people won't pay that, then you have a very clear answer on what value people place on video capability.

I wonder if they'll tell us the outcome?
 
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