Canon's FF Mirrorless Camera Will Have Same Internals as EOS 6D Mark II
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AvTvM said:it does not make a difference to MIl body size, whteher the hole is 46mm or 50mm in net diameter. It dioes not make much difference to MILC body size , whether FDD is 18mm or 24mm. It makes a HELL OF A LOT OF A DIFFERENCE however to combination of *size, image quality and cost* of lenses.
Ok, so you've studied mount dimensions, right? Have you studied the Leica L-mount? It has a flange focal distance of 19mm (vs. 18mm for EF-M and Sony E) for both APS-C and FF bodies. While their SL24-90mm lens is neither small nor cheap, it doesn't seem to suffer from the poor image quality you seem convinced results from a short FFD. Note that the rear element of the lens is close to the mount and thus quite close to the sensor, the design doesn't include the 'empty tube spacer' of the Sony G series.
Granted, the throat diameter is larger than EF-M (51mm vs. 47mm), but you were quite emphatic that it was the combination of a short FFD and narrow throat that was the problem. Does the Leica SL24-90 have poor image quality? Somehow, I doubt that. So unless you're going to argue that the 1mm FFD difference is somehow massive, you're wrong about the combination being a problem for IQ.
What else are you wrong about?
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neuroanatomist said:
Yes, *stupid Leica SL system* is truly behemoth. They want to sell to large-handed, large-bellied, small-brained Germaniacs, members of the faith "a camera or lens ain't no good if it ain't real chunky".
Had Leica - for example - chosen a smarter combination of say *24mm FDD AND 50mm throat width*, they could have made mirrorless lenses almost as compact as M-glass.
Due to their erroneous product and pricing policy, Leica will never reach more than 1% market share at best. I bet, they are not even in top 10 in amazon.com sales ranking that you like to quote so frequently ... right? ;D
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neuroanatomist said:
Nothing wrong. My statement that *combination* of *FDD and throat width* determines degree of latitude for lens design is 100% true. Leica chose a ridiculously short FDD, despite their SL camera body being fat-assed like a 747.
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Neuro read what I wrote.
19mm FDD plus 51mm Throat is a better combination for FF image circle lenses than 18mm FDD plus 46mm throat width. But it is not an ideal one. 22-24mm FDD plus throat wiodth as big as possible ... 49mm and more would be even better .. for 1) no compromise image quality, 2) (more) compact lenses and 3) (more) affordable lenses.
19mm FDD plus 51mm Throat is a better combination for FF image circle lenses than 18mm FDD plus 46mm throat width. But it is not an ideal one. 22-24mm FDD plus throat wiodth as big as possible ... 49mm and more would be even better .. for 1) no compromise image quality, 2) (more) compact lenses and 3) (more) affordable lenses.
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AvTvM said:
How can you be so sure when you admit you are not an expert in optics design. Yet by measuring the throat diameter of the Leica mount you know where Leica have gone wrong.
But I reckon I have worked out where the Williams F1 racing team have been going wrong because I measured the position of the wing mirrors.
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AvTvM & Neuroanatomist
Ive recently been involved in discussions with the major lenses designers (Panavision, Zeiss, Cooke, Angenieux, Sony, Leica, Sigma and more recently Canon) regarding a new universal mount for cinematography covering large format (vistavision which is close to 36x24mm). The FFD is being discussed between 18-22mm the image circle would need to be larger than the diagonal of the 36x24mm and the reason all these manufacturers are interested is that's the way the industry is moving. This still allows legacy lenses with a deeper FFD to be used with adaptors or extensions.
So is Canon interested (you bet). This is in the public domain at John Fauer "Film & Digital Times" so Neuroanatomist your in the lead and AvTvM is blowing smoke.
Ive recently been involved in discussions with the major lenses designers (Panavision, Zeiss, Cooke, Angenieux, Sony, Leica, Sigma and more recently Canon) regarding a new universal mount for cinematography covering large format (vistavision which is close to 36x24mm). The FFD is being discussed between 18-22mm the image circle would need to be larger than the diagonal of the 36x24mm and the reason all these manufacturers are interested is that's the way the industry is moving. This still allows legacy lenses with a deeper FFD to be used with adaptors or extensions.
So is Canon interested (you bet). This is in the public domain at John Fauer "Film & Digital Times" so Neuroanatomist your in the lead and AvTvM is blowing smoke.
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AvTvM said:
Wouldn't we all. The difference is they are actually designing lenses, and you are measuring throat diameters. Some accept what the designers tell them are limitations, you just reiterate a wishlist and dress it up as 'evidence' of what Canon aren't doing but should be.
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AvTvM, you admit you're not an expert on lens design but yet you talk like you know everything about them and no one else could conceivably be right. Why is that? are you trolling this page and just want to see how many responses you can get from Neuro or are you just that convinced by your own arguments?
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AvTvM said:
Jumping back a couple of days, but I have to ask: what do you think is more likely?
1) Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Ricoh/Pentax, and Leica are all dumb and stupid and all whiff on design and engineering
2) The problem is more complex than you think and CaNikon looked at the realities and decided "nope nope nope nope nope can't do it properly we're not wasting money down that rat hole"
Be honest.
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AvTvM said:
I've asked before and not heard back, why are you so convinced? It seems to me that every statement you make is met with solid evidence based rebuttal. What do you know that you're not saying?
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LonelyBoy said:
Reminds me of the quote: And remember, this is for posterity so be honest. How do you feel?
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