Canon's Full Frame Mirorrless Cameras [CR2]

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
jolyonralph said:
Woody said:
Good Enough usually wins in the marketplace. There's usually a solid niche available for Better Than Others. But Good Enough is where the volume will be."

This may well be the case for the APS-C and low-end market (even, dare I say, the 6D II market), but for the semi-pro to professional market there is a much greater awareness of the capabilities of competing equipment.

not really. you'd be surprised how many pros and even prosumers do not care about the minutiae the forum warriors agonize over.

they are more concerned about ergonomics, and the camera getting out of their way then they ever are about the small differences of DR or whatever is the latest buzz word for the forum warriors.

the reason the DSLR sales are slumping is because so many of the semi professionals and professionals are in the "my current camera is good enough for my business needs" that they don't really care what else is out there, unless it meets their current needs better, and in alot of cases, it doesn't matter.

instead of upgrading every release with pent up demand for better and more advantageous features, it's now, I'll upgrade when it dies.
 

3kramd5

EOS R6
Mar 2, 2012
3,084
405
rrcphoto said:
the reason the DSLR sales are slumping is because so many of the semi professionals and professionals are in the "my current camera is good enough for my business needs"

You think so? I doubt paid photographers drive the market in any sizable way. Rather, my suspicion is market saturation among those who want ILCs.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,507
3,905
Irving, Texas
scyrene said:
sanj said:
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.

I personally know 9 people who switched from Canon to Sony. 1 switched back to Canon. Rest 8 are very happy with Sony. All are professionals - working professionals. Fashion/Product photographers.

I can't tell if this is a joke but if not ::) ::) ::)

Sanj doesn't mention the other 137 pros he personally knows that didn't switch. :eek:

Though, I must say; I was sitting in a little coffee shop in downtown Dallas today when 11 Canon shooters walked in. None of us had ever met before, yet when we all began to talk the conversation became a unanimous, "If Canon doesn't get its act together..." It got a little bit embarrassing when we started finishing each other's sentences as though we'd all been lovers for years. Must I go on? You know the story. Now, each of us knew and additional 10 or 15 other Canon shooters who were all saying the same thing. The point is:
 

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eosuser1234

EOS 90D
Jul 16, 2013
161
35
Japan.
What if they made the same camera one with EF-M mount and one with ef mount.
The EF-M mount can techincally take full frame lenses as that flange depth like the Sony E mount.
Its technically not that muzukashii for someone at Canon to figure this out.
 

takesome1

EOS R
Aug 23, 2013
1,497
131
100
None your business Alaska
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.

Point made, you have to let your pain and anger go.
 

takesome1

EOS R
Aug 23, 2013
1,497
131
100
None your business Alaska
CanonFanBoy said:
scyrene said:
sanj said:
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.

I personally know 9 people who switched from Canon to Sony. 1 switched back to Canon. Rest 8 are very happy with Sony. All are professionals - working professionals. Fashion/Product photographers.

I can't tell if this is a joke but if not ::) ::) ::)

Sanj doesn't mention the other 137 pros he personally knows that didn't switch. :eek:

Though, I must say; I was sitting in a little coffee shop in downtown Dallas today when 11 Canon shooters walked in. None of us had ever met before, yet when we all began to talk the conversation became a unanimous, "If Canon doesn't get its act together..." It got a little bit embarrassing when we started finishing each other's sentences as though we'd all been lovers for years. Must I go on? You know the story. Now, each of us knew and additional 10 or 15 other Canon shooters who were all saying the same thing. The point is:

It is sad when someone hates something so much they would make new accounts over and over again just so they can bash it. It is like they went through a bitter divorce and just can't move on. But what is really twisted is they are the ones that left Canon for Sony. You would think they would be happy with their new mistress and forget about the old broken down Canon they used to use.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,507
3,905
Irving, Texas
takesome1 said:
CanonFanBoy said:
scyrene said:
sanj said:
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.

I personally know 9 people who switched from Canon to Sony. 1 switched back to Canon. Rest 8 are very happy with Sony. All are professionals - working professionals. Fashion/Product photographers.

I can't tell if this is a joke but if not ::) ::) ::)

He doesn't mention the other 137 pros he personally knows that didn't switch. :eek:

Though, I must say; I was sitting in a little coffee shop in downtown Dallas today when 11 Canon shooters walked in. None of us had ever met before, yet when we all began to talk the conversation became a unanimous, "If Canon doesn't get its act together..." It got a little bit embarrassing when we started finishing each other's sentences as though we'd all been lovers for years. Must I go on? You know the story. Now, each of us knew and additional 10 or 15 other Canon shooters who were all saying the same thing. The point is:

It is sad when someone hates something so much they would make new accounts over and over again just so they can bash it. It is like they went through a bitter divorce and just can't move on. But what is really twisted is they are the ones that left Canon for Sony. You would think they would be happy with their new mistress and forget about the old broken down Canon they used to use.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,766
2,291
Alberta, Canada
takesome1, it is sad indeed but there are lots of people who get all bent out of shape over nothing much and in the US at least it seems they often tote guns. I recommend a dose of solitude in the wild for these folk, I guess with a Sony camera in their lap. ;)

Jack
 

Kit.

EOS 5D Mark IV
Apr 25, 2011
2,087
1,432
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.
So what? Still a sad life.

Try enjoying your pictures.
 

jolyonralph

EOS R5 Mark II
CR Pro
Aug 25, 2015
1,413
906
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Kit. said:
So what? Still a sad life.

Try enjoying your pictures.

Exactly.

Some of my favourite pictures were shot on the EOS 500D with the 50mm f1/.8 II.

When we consider what is possible now with ANY modern body, even something like the 1300D with a nifty fifty compared with a generation or more back we really have never had it better.

So yes, some cameras have better DR, some have lighter lenses, some have a red ring around them and some even have a Leica badge to show everyone else how rich you are.

Now, I suffer from Gear Acquisition Syndrome as much as the worst here, but when I bought my Sony A7RII it wasn't because I want to defect from Canon, it's not like sports teams and I've changed my allegiance, I simply bought a tool because I thought I would enjoy using it for the type of photography I do. And I was right. I still have Canon gear, and quite often I go out shooting with both systems together.

Will I replace my A7RII with a Canon mirrorless or another Sony? That depends what the options are! I would *like* to revert to all-Canon to keep things simpler, and I do like Canon's EF-M mirrorless system for APS-C. All they'd need to do to keep me happy is an M5-sized body or slightly larger with FF and I'd buy one on day one.

But many of you don't want that and want something bigger. You're not wrong, and I'm not right. It's down to personal choice.

And whatever happens, whether Canon release a smaller MILC or not, there are always options, with Sony, Nikon and Canon all coming into the market with new bodies there is a lot to choose from.
 

sanj

EOS R5
Jan 22, 2012
3,740
609
scyrene said:
sanj said:
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.

I personally know 9 people who switched from Canon to Sony. 1 switched back to Canon. Rest 8 are very happy with Sony. All are professionals - working professionals. Fashion/Product photographers.

I can't tell if this is a joke but if not ::) ::) ::)

Which part of my comment did you find funny sir? 7 out of 9 do movie poster photography in addition to fashion/studio products.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
Maybe one question is how small and light Canon could build a FF frame 24-70 F4 zoom using an EF-M mount, or a suitable equivalent. For a FF mirrorless of M5ish size to make a lot of sense wouldn't there need to be a normal zoom considerably smaller and lighter than the current EF 24-70 f4 IS? How much smaller and lighter? Would a 24-70 zoom with variable max aperture be ok?
 

takesome1

EOS R
Aug 23, 2013
1,497
131
100
None your business Alaska
Jack Douglas said:
takesome1, it is sad indeed but there are lots of people who get all bent out of shape over nothing much and in the US at least it seems they often tote guns. I recommend a dose of solitude in the wild for these folk, I guess with a Sony camera in their lap. ;)

Jack

Should we put this on form 4473?

Are you or have you ever been a Sony owner who is dissatisfied with the way Canon treated you?

Answering yes would indicate mental instability and they wouldn't be able to buy the firearm.
 

scyrene

EOS R6
Dec 4, 2013
2,842
989
UK
www.flickr.com
sanj said:
scyrene said:
sanj said:
Generalized Specialist said:
takesome1 said:
It is a sad life to be nothing but a Sony troll.

By Sony troll you mean yet another one of those Canon guys (10 years in my case) that switched to Sony. You know, the ones you guys all claim don't exist because no Canon user has switched yet, all of 'em are still drinking the Canon kool-aid and all is well in Canon land - nothing but kitty cats, lollipops and rainbows.

Gonna be sitting here next winter season with a big grin on my face when the year end marketshare results get reported and Canon has delayed it's FF mirrorless for the umpteenth time, and reading all the excuses you guys have trying to explain away how Canon dropped the ball.

Meanwhile Canon has everything on firesale and the Sony A7iii is going for upwards of 40% over MSRP to folks who can't wait a few weeks. And next will come the A7Siii (you know that one, the one Canon isn't even going to bother competing with, for 'reasons') and the A6x00 model and who knows what else Sony has in store for us.

I personally know 9 people who switched from Canon to Sony. 1 switched back to Canon. Rest 8 are very happy with Sony. All are professionals - working professionals. Fashion/Product photographers.

I can't tell if this is a joke but if not ::) ::) ::)

Which part of my comment did you find funny sir? 7 out of 9 do movie poster photography in addition to fashion/studio products.

You've posted on this forum over 3000 times and you still think 'I know several people who've switched to Sony' is a compelling argument. I don't find it funny, I'm just rolling my eyes at it ::) ::) ::)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,783
2,475
scyrene said:
You've posted on this forum over 3000 times and you still think 'I know several people who've switched to Sony' is a compelling argument. I don't find it funny, I'm just rolling my eyes at it ::) ::) ::)

Rather sad how many people think anecdotes are data.

But last week I saw a guy buy a Nikon entry level DSLR at Target. I guess that means DSLRs are outcompeting mirrorless and Nikon is gaining market share. ::) ::) ::)
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,766
2,291
Alberta, Canada
To be honest, even though I don't buy all the Sony arguments, I'm also encountering people who are switching but I think in the population in general we have personalities who tend to switch no matter what company they are with. Perhaps some of them are technical wizes who really know what improvements they're getting and likely some just like the buzz or celebrity status. As many have said, it's great the competition keeps the heat on Canon. But, it does get a bit tiring hearing the same old commentary.

As a second camera I'm now thinking FF mirrorless and will wait to see what Canon brings because there is a lot I like about Canon. I'm a dodo bird I guess. ;)

Jack
 

snoke

EOS RP
Jul 20, 2017
306
47
tron said:
I do not understand people wanting another mount. It will be kind of optimal only for some fixed wide angle lenses and nothing else.

Read Canon patents. EOS now slow. Faster lens need new mount.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,783
2,475
snoke said:
tron said:
I do not understand people wanting another mount. It will be kind of optimal only for some fixed wide angle lenses and nothing else.

Read Canon patents. EOS now slow. Faster lens need new mount.

Indeed – actually read Canon patents. EOS now slow. Faster lens need new mount communication protocol.
 

snoke

EOS RP
Jul 20, 2017
306
47
neuroanatomist said:
Indeed – actually read Canon patents. EOS now slow. Faster lens need new mount communication protocol.

Same same. New communication protocol need new mount.

Canon engineer smart know why.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,783
2,475
snoke said:
neuroanatomist said:
Indeed – actually read Canon patents. EOS now slow. Faster lens need new mount communication protocol.

Same same. New communication protocol need new mount.

Canon engineer smart know why.

A new communication protocol could be implemented in a mount physically and electronically compatible with the current EF lenses. While you may call that a 'new mount', doing so is merely semantics. If I can attach my current lenses to the 'new mount' and attach 'new mount' lenses to my current camera, it's not a new mount. Or the mount could be made physically different. As I said...read the patent (and be sure you first understand the difference between claims and examples as they pertain to IP).
 
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