Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

[Musouka]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

My guess is that people looking for an exciting still camera are going to be out of luck for another cycle or two, at least from Canon. And with Sony's massive loss this year we might see some scaling back from that competition, so we are likely to see some serious stagnation for a while.

Under the One Sony plan, the company is going to "focus on digital imaging, gaming and mobile for growth, until those three make up 70 percent of its total sales in 2014." (source, emphasis added) so we can expect the company to push forward in the digital imaging arena with competitive products.

 

[Canon-F1]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Under the One Sony plan, the company is going to "focus on digital imaging, gaming and mobile for growth, until those three make up 70 percent of its total sales in 2014." (source, emphasis added) so we can expect the company to push forward in the digital imaging arena with competitive products.

question is.. focus on NEX or ALPHA?

will sony spend R&D on a sector (alpha) it will be very hard for them to compete?
they have to work on the lens lineup. im not sure that the results will justifie it.

but then... what do i know.
i see only my surrounding and i don´t know a single person with a sony alpha.

 

[mb66energy]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

My bet (from simply calculating ...):
It will have something around
8 Mio x 5.3 Mio pixels
to allow 2x2 or 4x4 binning for quad HD (2160)/4k and HD (1080)
resulting in 42 MPix.

So it will be the high MPix alternative to the 5D Mk III with enhanced
and future proof video capabilities. And the studio cam for Hi Res stills. And an
alternative to other full frame cameras with roughly 40 MPix. And hopefully
a small raw with 10MPix with binning: Each resulting pixel created from1 red, 1
blue and 2 green photosites.

 

[Ranga]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

This is what the Sony FS700 has to offer for $8000 but 4k would come as a firmware upgrade that has to be purchased.

This is what u get for the price......


ISO 500 (0 dB) to ISO 16,000 (30 dB) sensitivity

Cranks from 1 to 960 fps for fast motion to super-slow motion

Four ND filter levels: clear, 2, 4 & 6 stops

Four HyperGamma settings (same as F3)

WorldCam 50/60Hz systems

Exmor Super 35mm sensor 11.6-megapixles

Effective pixels (photo): approx. 8,400,000 pixels (16:9) or approx. 7,100,000 pixels (4:3)

Low aliasing (grossly over sampled HD)

Runs cool, no grain and no fan noise

Large buttons and switches with orange backgrounds for easy auto/manual distinction

Arri Rossette with micro-adjusting (for connecting grips, etc.)

Face detection

Auto/manual iris and focus with Sony lenses (lenses sold separately)

Features dual XLR inputs, a DC input, an FMU port for flash memory unit, SD / MemoryStick card slot, BNC connector
and HDMI output

Removable grip features four easy-to-use buttons including Start/Stop, Photo, 4x/8x expandable focus and push-button auto iris

Display offers video/film selections for distance (meters/feet), sensitivity (dB gain/ ISO) and shutter (speed/angle)

BNC connector offers 3G/HD-SDI and a planned future firmware upgrade will enable 4K data-stream output

Camera supports 1920 x 1080/60p full HD recording and still image capture

 

[mb66energy]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Does anybody know what could be the price of the componets that make up a C500 that has a price of $35000?

Thank you very much!

Simon.

I worked in elementary particle physics 20 years ago. There I learned a little bit about data handling with large data sets at very high bandwidths of signal acquisition.

Look at a sensor of 8 MPix which has to be read out 60 times a second. You have to do 480 Million 12 or 14 bit deep analog to digital conversions after transferring the analog signals from the photosites to the acquisition and conversion electronics. The analog signal has to be precise within 0.05 percent if you need 10 bit precision.

That is a hard job, just today. 20 years ago we paid for an oscilloscop with 500 MHz bandwidth and 1000 million samples per second (just 8 bit depth) 30 000 German marks - means sth. like 30 000 EUR/$ today. That scope had a monochrome display, no 8 MPix CCD or CMOS sensor, needed 200 watts of power and was sized like a PC. Weight: 12 kilograms. It was tiny compared to the competitors!

Todays cameras need much higher precision and include a lot of other critical components. Yes, technology has advanced, but circuit board design is a very time consuming procedure for thes products and we have seen a lot of advance in power consumption down to some watts - making the devices hand holdable with a 2 hr power source.

I am no specialist in these modern data acquisition systems but I if I remember prices, sizes and efforts 20 years ago just to sample some signal ... the price of 600 EUR/$ for an EOS 600D is a joke for what you get for.

C500 will provide - compared to a 600D - much better circuitry for cleaner signals and 4 times the video resolution resulting in 4 times of data acquisition speed. Getting 4 times faster data acquisition doesn't cost 4 times the money, efforts and therefore prices rise dramatically with speed - compare it to the processor cost 10 years ago where you payd twice the price for a 10 percent higher CPU frequency.

Best - Michael

 

[psolberg]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

all very expensive and as expected, way out of the range of most people That's the price of 4K. still want it now?

 

[JR]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Quite interesting.

Wasn't the reason for (somewhat questionable for 1Ds owners) merging the 1D and 1Ds to keep the costs down?

Now a similarily "megapixeled" with only some more video capabilities the new camera doesn't make sense, isn't it? Instead of the 1D & the 1Ds we would have the 1Dx and the 1DC(inema), history repeated.
Wouldn't a high MP 1DxS made more sense?

Totally! For us still shooters that is...i think this has a lot to do with the market positionning that Canon wants to do. They likely felt that say they have two pro style body in the lineup, would be more lucrative to position one for still and one for video, instead of having two for still like in the past. I am curious to see where this will lead us, and if the new video model might surprise us on their quality for still pictures even if not marketed as such...

 

[dstppy]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Will these new model have the same faith as the 1DX and be available in 6+ month!?!?!?!?

Honestly, the T5i will be announced before all of the new $3500+ body supply issues are sorted out. Let's hope Canon isn't spreading themselves too thin financially and manufacuturing-wise. If there's any significant delay on availability of the new lower end rebel(s) after announcement, then the answer would appear to be 'yes'.

 

[Ivar]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

I can't help but: we could have a brilliant photocamera here !

Just replace the video with an ordinary one to make the price sensible.

My bet (from simply calculating ...):
It will have something around
8 Mio x 5.3 Mio pixels
to allow 2x2 or 4x4 binning for quad HD (2160)/4k and HD (1080)
resulting in 42 MPix.

So it will be the high MPix alternative to the 5D Mk III with enhanced
and future proof video capabilities. And the studio cam for Hi Res stills. And an
alternative to other full frame cameras with roughly 40 MPix. And hopefully
a small raw with 10MPix with binning: Each resulting pixel created from1 red, 1
blue and 2 green photosites.

 

[messus]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Makes absolutely NO SENSE with more megapixels than the 1DX on a FF video DSLR !
Maxium 8-9Megapixels would be sufficient for 4K video and would provide excellent
low light conditions! Totally strategic miss and WAY to expensive!!

I can understand some people demand higher megapixel count, but NOT on the 4K video DSLR,
totally wrong direction!

Also I why no RAW video? Writing simultaneous to two or more UDMA7 cards (300MBps) should be sufficient for that. Like some other cameras from Panasonic.

Completely disappointing if these specs are right!

update: And looks like they are according to dpreview.

And since 18megapixels you have to crop down to APS-H (1.3x) to avoid extra cpu usage in downscaling, and then you can not use your 14mm fully, or your 24mm 1.4 !!!

 

[EYEONE]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Anyone posted this yet?

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/12/Canon-EOS-1D-C-4K-capable-DSLR

 

[Loswr]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

Wasn't the reason for (somewhat questionable for 1Ds owners) merging the 1D and 1Ds to keep the costs down?

No, the reason wasn't to 'keep costs down' per se. The 1D series used an APS-H sensor which was, in many ways, a compromise sensor enabling a lower cost of production, indirectly resulting in 'greater reach' (crop factor) and corresponding loss of wide angle capability.

Now a similarily "megapixeled" with only some more video capabilities the new camera doesn't make sense, isn't it?

Maybe not, but that's exactly what was just announced...

 

[preppyak]

Re: Cinema EOS 1D & EOS C500 for NAB

This is what the Sony FS700 has to offer for $8000 but 4k would come as a firmware upgrade that has to be purchased.

This is what u get for the price......

BNC connector offers 3G/HD-SDI and a planned future firmware upgrade will enable 4K data-stream output

Yeah, I love that Sony put out their specs originally to get people to go "holy crap, 4k video for $8k", and then the truth is that they took the RED approach. For an additional x thousand dollars, you can get a camera that actually does what its supposed to do. With proprietary connections that change your workflow

Also, I figured to get that kind of FPS, they've be giving up on something...looks like low ISO is what they gave up. Should be a good camera for someone shooting action, but, impractical for most other shoots.