More Full Frame Mirrorless Talk, Maybe Some Surprises? [CR1]

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
215
27
New Zealand
fullstop said:
Again, am ot interested in video capture myself. But 4k recording definitely is "crippled" on the EOS M50. True, it is a lower level, comparatively inexpensive camera, not a hi-end one. But up to now it is the ONLY Canon EOS camera that has 4k video capture (except 1Dc). And by 2018 standards 4k on the EOS M50 sems to be - "underwhelming". or "crippled".

Things are not necessarily better on all comptetive products. Similarly priced and positioned new Fujifilm X-T100 for example has 4k recording only at 15fps. i'd call that "why even bother", "useless" or "more than just crippled".

Same theme on both cameras: "4k" added as a "spec sheet tick box" only, trying to fool not-so-well-informed potential buyers. companies like Canon or Fujifilm should not have to resort to such marketing tactics. why not be honest and offer low-price "base version" with no video-out for stills shooters and "video-enhanced" versions of some cameras - with "fully useable" 4k video capture - at a higher, but still "affordable" price. Instead of "window dressing"?

That said, EOS M50 is the first EOS M camera to meet my personal criteria to upgrade from my currently used EOS M 1st gen: viewfinder, compact form factor, much better AF, much better IQ and (relatively) "inexpensive". So I am going to get one. For "stills only", of course. :)

Don't the 5dmk4 and 1dx2 have 4k also?
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,129
317
fullstop said:
so instead of implementing such cr*ppy video, why not split models into "stills only" and "stills + real video" versions?

fullstop said:
That said, EOS M50 is the first EOS M camera to meet my personal criteria to upgrade from my currently used EOS M 1st gen: viewfinder, compact form factor, much better AF, much better IQ and (relatively) "inexpensive". So I am going to get one. For "stills only", of course. :)

I think you just answered your own question there :)
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
MayaTlab said:
Basically, a good mirrorless camera naturally is a good video/photo hybrid.

I see it differently. While MILCs certainly are a much better start for a video(-enabled) camera than DSLRs, video capture has requirements that are quite different and to no small degree count-productive to optimum stills image capture.

* sensor - video needs to be optimized for "long time operation with lots of heat generated". Not needed to that extent for stills, possibly counter-productive.
* DIGIC/s - all that development money and those computing resources dedicated to video capture / encoding and transferring massive streams of data for extended periods of time. Could be saved or applied towards (even) better stills image processing and (even) more powerful AF systems ... e.g. (even) better tracking or Eye Control AF v2.0 8)
* body shell cluttered with unneeded like mic holes and connectors like mic, headphone etc. Or that ominous red "record video" button! Could all be omitted for stills, would save some cost and make it a bit easier to weather-seal body. Or camera could be equipped with a second dial or a BFF AF button instead. And - most importantly - it would reduce the risk to inadvertently hit that darn "record video" button. :)
* menu system filled with video-related stuff, not needed for stills shooting.
* more costly quality assurance and warranty repairs - video recording capability needs to be QCed in addition to stills and more repairs result from extreme stress and heat system is under when recording (4k) video for a half hour with no break ...

And certainly some more items why there should be also (at least some) "pure stills" MILCs and "convergence" generally only be made available at extra cost. 8)
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
zim said:
fullstop said:
That said, EOS M50 is the first EOS M camera to meet my personal criteria to upgrade from my currently used EOS M 1st gen: viewfinder, compact form factor, much better AF, much better IQ and (relatively) "inexpensive". So I am going to get one. For "stills only", of course. :)
I think you just answered your own question there :)

not really. :)

Yes, I'll get M50. But *despite* of the (crippled) video stuff in it. I would prefer to get it for (even) less money without video-capture in it. :)

Generally I'd like to be able to customize configure [more modular] cameras, like e.g. you could customize Dell computers "back in the good old days". Which processor, which graphics capability, how much system memory, how much/what type of mass storage [HDD, SSD] etc ... I'd max my camera out on stills and AF performance and minimize it on video. Mirrorless, all electronic, solid-state cameras would offer so many options for a more modular, smarter, more customizable approach to cameras. Less different models, more customized versions.

I don't like that all camera makers are following that "old, totally inflexible consumer electronics/appliance" product strategy. While it is to be expected from "genetically engrained CE companies" like Sony or Panasonic - Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, Leica etc. could and should really offer smarter kit and be a step above and ahead of this "microwave oven, TV set and washing machine" mindset.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
fullstop said:
zim said:
fullstop said:
That said, EOS M50 is the first EOS M camera to meet my personal criteria to upgrade from my currently used EOS M 1st gen: viewfinder, compact form factor, much better AF, much better IQ and (relatively) "inexpensive". So I am going to get one. For "stills only", of course. :)
I think you just answered your own question there :)

not really. :)

Yes, I'll get M50. But *despite* of the (crippled) video stuff in it. I would prefer to get it for (even) less money without video-capture in it. :)

Generally I'd like to be able to customize configure [more modular] cameras, like e.g. you could customize Dell computers "back in the good old days". Which processor, which graphics capability, how much system memory, how much/what type of mass storage [HDD, SSD] etc ... I'd max my camera out on stills and AF performance and minimize it on video. Mirrorless, all electronic, solid-state cameras would offer so many options for a more modular, smarter, more customizable approach to cameras. Less different models, more customized versions.

I don't like that all camera makers are following that "old, totally inflexible consumer electronics/appliance" product strategy. While it is to be expected from "genetically engrained CE companies" like Sony or Panasonic - Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, Leica etc. could and should really offer smarter kit and be a step above and ahead of this "microwave oven, TV set and washing machine" mindset.

How do you know that it would cost Canon less per unit to design and manufacture a video free version of the M50 when the design costs and the costs of the second production line are taken into consideration? How many units of each design would Canon have to make of each design to come out ahead, or if there is any break even point at all? Would you buy a video free M50 if it cost more than the current model? I get it that you would like a video free M50, and that you would like it to be cheaper than the current M50 model, but you haven't convinced me that you will be victimized because you are forced to subsidize persons who want video in their M50's.
 

fullstop

EOS R
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
BillB said:
fullstop said:
zim said:
fullstop said:
That said, EOS M50 is the first EOS M camera to meet my personal criteria to upgrade from my currently used EOS M 1st gen: viewfinder, compact form factor, much better AF, much better IQ and (relatively) "inexpensive". So I am going to get one. For "stills only", of course. :)
I think you just answered your own question there :)

not really. :)

Yes, I'll get M50. But *despite* of the (crippled) video stuff in it. I would prefer to get it for (even) less money without video-capture in it. :)

Generally I'd like to be able to customize configure [more modular] cameras, like e.g. you could customize Dell computers "back in the good old days". Which processor, which graphics capability, how much system memory, how much/what type of mass storage [HDD, SSD] etc ... I'd max my camera out on stills and AF performance and minimize it on video. Mirrorless, all electronic, solid-state cameras would offer so many options for a more modular, smarter, more customizable approach to cameras. Less different models, more customized versions.

I don't like that all camera makers are following that "old, totally inflexible consumer electronics/appliance" product strategy. While it is to be expected from "genetically engrained CE companies" like Sony or Panasonic - Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm, Leica etc. could and should really offer smarter kit and be a step above and ahead of this "microwave oven, TV set and washing machine" mindset.

How do you know that it would cost Canon less per unit to design and manufacture a video free version of the M50 when the design costs and the costs of the second production line are taken into consideration? How many units of each design would Canon have to make of each design to come out ahead, or if there is any break even point at all? Would you buy a video free M50 if it cost more than the current model? I get it that you would like a video free M50, and that you would like it to be cheaper than the current M50 model, but you haven't convinced me that you will be victimized because you are forced to subsidize persons who want video in their M50's.

all the video-related elements i listed cost extra. Stills only shooters are cross-subsidizing video features in cameras.

Simple logic is enough to understand this, one does not need to have (confidential, unavailable) detailed (cost) accounting information.

If Canon can make 6 or 7 different Rebel models at a time, it does not seem to be cost-prohibitive to (instead) produce fewer cameras, but some in 2 different versions (stills / video+stills ) in parallel.
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
758
104
Durf said:
Talys said:
Why is there so much talk of the M50? That is comparing what is probably the cheapest 4k ILC with what with a full frame video-centric enthusiast/semiprofessional offering.

But anyways:

- anyone who can't shoot wide enough with a 11mm lens, even with the crop, is doing something wrong because pro camcorders can't typically gi wider than that either.

- crop is a benefit for people who want to get more reach, so one person's loss is anorher's gain.

- what $750 ILC has 4k dpaf?

- it's $750. Why shouldn't devices that cost more have the possibility of better quality of 4k video?

- what other $750 ILC can do 4k and and has a fully articulating touchscreen?

Just because the M50 isn't the best at everything including price doesn't mean it isn't a great offering. In fact, nothing needs to have the best specs and the lowest price and work the most smoothly. That's just a fantasy of people who want to spend less and get more just because it is technology related.

...it's a given that all new cameras from Canon will be bashed and trashed by certain groups of peoples.

but,

from what I gather that in this price range this M50 might just be the best little compact run and gun 1080p vlogging camera yet, capable of limited 4k, and it also can take great photos.

Personally I'm more of a picture taker than a video maker and this camera is too tiny and not me but I bet it'll sell like crazy to youtubers and those that do like small cameras.

It's almost like an enhanced 80D shrunk down in to a tiny package......

If it were selling like crazy, it wouldn't be discounted by $200 two months after release at B&H...actually, it's shocking to see how discounted the Canon 6D and 5DIV models are as well, both by $400 dollars respectively...and that's with a free battery grip. On the Nikon end, the D750 is discounted by $500.

What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,082
362
Vancouver, BC
transpo1 said:
What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Could that possibly be attributed to the A73 being the latest release? ::)

By the way Sony A7R3 and A73 were discounted very shortly after release too; it was just a disguised discount. You had to bring something to trade in. My friend took a very old -- and very broken, as in cracked -- EFS kit lens and got $300 off of his A7R3 a couple months after launch; a similar offer was made a month or two after A73 (any ILC body or lens), with increasing rebates for A73, A7R3, A9.
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
Talys said:
transpo1 said:
What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Could that possibly be attributed to the A73 being the latest release? ::)

By the way Sony A7R3 and A73 were discounted very shortly after release too; it was just a disguised discount. You had to bring something to trade in. My friend took a very old -- and very broken, as in cracked -- EFS kit lens and got $300 off of his A7R3 a couple months after launch; a similar offer was made a month or two after A73 (any ILC body or lens), with increasing rebates for A73, A7R3, A9.

Personally I don't believe that a discount automatically means the camera is not selling well, it could actually be that they want them to sell even better and to get as many in to peoples hands as possible. What better way is there to get more customers using a product and to prepare them for possibly wanting to upgrade to the next "better features and improved version"?

In my opinion the M50 is just a baby and a teaser to what's coming and that most people buying it will happily pay a little more for a better version (M60) or even a way more expensive FF mirror-less down the road.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,562
3,957
Irving, Texas
transpo1 said:
Durf said:
Talys said:
Why is there so much talk of the M50? That is comparing what is probably the cheapest 4k ILC with what with a full frame video-centric enthusiast/semiprofessional offering.

But anyways:

- anyone who can't shoot wide enough with a 11mm lens, even with the crop, is doing something wrong because pro camcorders can't typically gi wider than that either.

- crop is a benefit for people who want to get more reach, so one person's loss is anorher's gain.

- what $750 ILC has 4k dpaf?

- it's $750. Why shouldn't devices that cost more have the possibility of better quality of 4k video?

- what other $750 ILC can do 4k and and has a fully articulating touchscreen?

Just because the M50 isn't the best at everything including price doesn't mean it isn't a great offering. In fact, nothing needs to have the best specs and the lowest price and work the most smoothly. That's just a fantasy of people who want to spend less and get more just because it is technology related.

...it's a given that all new cameras from Canon will be bashed and trashed by certain groups of peoples.

but,

from what I gather that in this price range this M50 might just be the best little compact run and gun 1080p vlogging camera yet, capable of limited 4k, and it also can take great photos.

Personally I'm more of a picture taker than a video maker and this camera is too tiny and not me but I bet it'll sell like crazy to youtubers and those that do like small cameras.

It's almost like an enhanced 80D shrunk down in to a tiny package......

If it were selling like crazy, it wouldn't be discounted by $200 two months after release at B&H...actually, it's shocking to see how discounted the Canon 6D and 5DIV models are as well, both by $400 dollars respectively...and that's with a free battery grip. On the Nikon end, the D750 is discounted by $500.

What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Don't confuse MSRP, release price, and regular price. Just because something is "regularlly $XXXX" and is now "$xxxx" doesn't mean there's a discount. It only means somebody took advantage of initial excitement about a product.

BTW: Sony is anything but "steep" competition. Sony hasn't got the market share to be anything of the sort.
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
758
104
CanonFanBoy said:
transpo1 said:
Durf said:
Talys said:
Why is there so much talk of the M50? That is comparing what is probably the cheapest 4k ILC with what with a full frame video-centric enthusiast/semiprofessional offering.

But anyways:

- anyone who can't shoot wide enough with a 11mm lens, even with the crop, is doing something wrong because pro camcorders can't typically gi wider than that either.

- crop is a benefit for people who want to get more reach, so one person's loss is anorher's gain.

- what $750 ILC has 4k dpaf?

- it's $750. Why shouldn't devices that cost more have the possibility of better quality of 4k video?

- what other $750 ILC can do 4k and and has a fully articulating touchscreen?

Just because the M50 isn't the best at everything including price doesn't mean it isn't a great offering. In fact, nothing needs to have the best specs and the lowest price and work the most smoothly. That's just a fantasy of people who want to spend less and get more just because it is technology related.

...it's a given that all new cameras from Canon will be bashed and trashed by certain groups of peoples.

but,

from what I gather that in this price range this M50 might just be the best little compact run and gun 1080p vlogging camera yet, capable of limited 4k, and it also can take great photos.

Personally I'm more of a picture taker than a video maker and this camera is too tiny and not me but I bet it'll sell like crazy to youtubers and those that do like small cameras.

It's almost like an enhanced 80D shrunk down in to a tiny package......

If it were selling like crazy, it wouldn't be discounted by $200 two months after release at B&H...actually, it's shocking to see how discounted the Canon 6D and 5DIV models are as well, both by $400 dollars respectively...and that's with a free battery grip. On the Nikon end, the D750 is discounted by $500.

What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Don't confuse MSRP, release price, and regular price. Just because something is "regularlly $XXXX" and is now "$xxxx" doesn't mean there's a discount. It only means somebody took advantage of initial excitement about a product.

BTW: Sony is anything but "steep" competition. Sony hasn't got the market share to be anything of the sort.

Not yet in overall sales but they have the buzz and excitement and over time, that will lead to increased sales.
 

BillB

EOS R
May 11, 2017
1,393
659
transpo1 said:
CanonFanBoy said:
transpo1 said:
Durf said:
Talys said:
Why is there so much talk of the M50? That is comparing what is probably the cheapest 4k ILC with what with a full frame video-centric enthusiast/semiprofessional offering.

But anyways:

- anyone who can't shoot wide enough with a 11mm lens, even with the crop, is doing something wrong because pro camcorders can't typically gi wider than that either.

- crop is a benefit for people who want to get more reach, so one person's loss is anorher's gain.

- what $750 ILC has 4k dpaf?

- it's $750. Why shouldn't devices that cost more have the possibility of better quality of 4k video?

- what other $750 ILC can do 4k and and has a fully articulating touchscreen?

Just because the M50 isn't the best at everything including price doesn't mean it isn't a great offering. In fact, nothing needs to have the best specs and the lowest price and work the most smoothly. That's just a fantasy of people who want to spend less and get more just because it is technology related.

...it's a given that all new cameras from Canon will be bashed and trashed by certain groups of peoples.

but,

from what I gather that in this price range this M50 might just be the best little compact run and gun 1080p vlogging camera yet, capable of limited 4k, and it also can take great photos.

Personally I'm more of a picture taker than a video maker and this camera is too tiny and not me but I bet it'll sell like crazy to youtubers and those that do like small cameras.

It's almost like an enhanced 80D shrunk down in to a tiny package......

If it were selling like crazy, it wouldn't be discounted by $200 two months after release at B&H...actually, it's shocking to see how discounted the Canon 6D and 5DIV models are as well, both by $400 dollars respectively...and that's with a free battery grip. On the Nikon end, the D750 is discounted by $500.

What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Don't confuse MSRP, release price, and regular price. Just because something is "regularlly $XXXX" and is now "$xxxx" doesn't mean there's a discount. It only means somebody took advantage of initial excitement about a product.

BTW: Sony is anything but "steep" competition. Sony hasn't got the market share to be anything of the sort.

Not yet in overall sales but they have the buzz and excitement and over time, that will lead to increased sales.

Or so Sony hopes
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
758
104
BillB said:
transpo1 said:
CanonFanBoy said:
transpo1 said:
Durf said:
Talys said:
Why is there so much talk of the M50? That is comparing what is probably the cheapest 4k ILC with what with a full frame video-centric enthusiast/semiprofessional offering.

But anyways:

- anyone who can't shoot wide enough with a 11mm lens, even with the crop, is doing something wrong because pro camcorders can't typically gi wider than that either.

- crop is a benefit for people who want to get more reach, so one person's loss is anorher's gain.

- what $750 ILC has 4k dpaf?

- it's $750. Why shouldn't devices that cost more have the possibility of better quality of 4k video?

- what other $750 ILC can do 4k and and has a fully articulating touchscreen?

Just because the M50 isn't the best at everything including price doesn't mean it isn't a great offering. In fact, nothing needs to have the best specs and the lowest price and work the most smoothly. That's just a fantasy of people who want to spend less and get more just because it is technology related.

...it's a given that all new cameras from Canon will be bashed and trashed by certain groups of peoples.

but,

from what I gather that in this price range this M50 might just be the best little compact run and gun 1080p vlogging camera yet, capable of limited 4k, and it also can take great photos.

Personally I'm more of a picture taker than a video maker and this camera is too tiny and not me but I bet it'll sell like crazy to youtubers and those that do like small cameras.

It's almost like an enhanced 80D shrunk down in to a tiny package......

If it were selling like crazy, it wouldn't be discounted by $200 two months after release at B&H...actually, it's shocking to see how discounted the Canon 6D and 5DIV models are as well, both by $400 dollars respectively...and that's with a free battery grip. On the Nikon end, the D750 is discounted by $500.

What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Don't confuse MSRP, release price, and regular price. Just because something is "regularlly $XXXX" and is now "$xxxx" doesn't mean there's a discount. It only means somebody took advantage of initial excitement about a product.

BTW: Sony is anything but "steep" competition. Sony hasn't got the market share to be anything of the sort.

Not yet in overall sales but they have the buzz and excitement and over time, that will lead to increased sales.

Or so Sony hopes

Correct. And they are slowly eroding the key lens gap (still a long ways to go). But as someone who has loved my 5DIII and 24-105/4 combination for world travel for photo and video, to hear from Lensrentals that the Sony 24-105 blows the Canon equivalent away was a big enticement. And, I suspect, will be for others, too.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,562
3,957
Irving, Texas
transpo1 said:
CanonFanBoy said:
transpo1 said:
Durf said:
Talys said:
Why is there so much talk of the M50? That is comparing what is probably the cheapest 4k ILC with what with a full frame video-centric enthusiast/semiprofessional offering.

But anyways:

- anyone who can't shoot wide enough with a 11mm lens, even with the crop, is doing something wrong because pro camcorders can't typically gi wider than that either.

- crop is a benefit for people who want to get more reach, so one person's loss is anorher's gain.

- what $750 ILC has 4k dpaf?

- it's $750. Why shouldn't devices that cost more have the possibility of better quality of 4k video?

- what other $750 ILC can do 4k and and has a fully articulating touchscreen?

Just because the M50 isn't the best at everything including price doesn't mean it isn't a great offering. In fact, nothing needs to have the best specs and the lowest price and work the most smoothly. That's just a fantasy of people who want to spend less and get more just because it is technology related.

...it's a given that all new cameras from Canon will be bashed and trashed by certain groups of peoples.

but,

from what I gather that in this price range this M50 might just be the best little compact run and gun 1080p vlogging camera yet, capable of limited 4k, and it also can take great photos.

Personally I'm more of a picture taker than a video maker and this camera is too tiny and not me but I bet it'll sell like crazy to youtubers and those that do like small cameras.

It's almost like an enhanced 80D shrunk down in to a tiny package......

If it were selling like crazy, it wouldn't be discounted by $200 two months after release at B&H...actually, it's shocking to see how discounted the Canon 6D and 5DIV models are as well, both by $400 dollars respectively...and that's with a free battery grip. On the Nikon end, the D750 is discounted by $500.

What this tells me is, although Canon and Nikon still rule among professional photographers, they are seeing steep competition from Sony, with the A7III being the #1 Top Seller at B&H. The video competition from the GH5/s line must be taking a toll as well.

Don't confuse MSRP, release price, and regular price. Just because something is "regularlly $XXXX" and is now "$xxxx" doesn't mean there's a discount. It only means somebody took advantage of initial excitement about a product.

BTW: Sony is anything but "steep" competition. Sony hasn't got the market share to be anything of the sort.

Not yet in overall sales but they have the buzz and excitement and over time, that will lead to increased sales.

Buzz and excitement? How do we measure that? How do we know that? Easy. Sales. That's is the true measure, not people (bloggers) going in circles repeating it. Not forum fanboys who already own the thing. No. New owners. The buying public. Sony has an abysmal market share. The buzz? Maybe when at the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas, Nevada... but that buzz isn't from their product. ;)
 

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,082
362
Vancouver, BC
CanonFanBoy said:
Buzz and excitement? How do we measure that? How do we know that? Easy. Sales. That's is the true measure, not people (bloggers) going in circles repeating it. Not forum fanboys who already own the thing. No. New owners. The buying public. Sony has an abysmal market share. The buzz? Maybe when at the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas, Nevada... but that buzz isn't from their product. ;)

Buzz and excitement is measured by potential revenue for youtubers and photography websites on one hand, and the appeal to those who equate "different" with "better" on the other. In the short term, sometimes it translates into sales, and sometimes it doesn't.

But ultimately, sales is determined by how good a tool something is. If a camera is a really good money-making tool or a very satisfying hobby tool, people will buy more of them and invest more into the system; and third parties will make more and more accessories for it.

Sony definitely deserves some credit for being first to full frame mirrorless ILC, and for sure, that deserves some buzz and excitement. On the other hand, in many ways, to me, it feels that partly Sony is first because they were willing to go to production with iterations of technology that feel unfinished. Also, I think that Sony has a long way to go before it's competitive as a professional or enthusiast tool as a replacement for 1DXII.

It might be a nice thing to have as a novelty, but being limited to only the most popular consumer focal length lenses and having handicapped autofocus speed (especially with extenders), and some odd quirks, in my opinion, limit it to a few specific professional settings at which they excel.
 

Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
Talys said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Buzz and excitement? How do we measure that? How do we know that? Easy. Sales. That's is the true measure, not people (bloggers) going in circles repeating it. Not forum fanboys who already own the thing. No. New owners. The buying public. Sony has an abysmal market share. The buzz? Maybe when at the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas, Nevada... but that buzz isn't from their product. ;)

Buzz and excitement is measured by potential revenue for youtubers and photography websites on one hand, and the appeal to those who equate "different" with "better" on the other. In the short term, sometimes it translates into sales, and sometimes it doesn't.

But ultimately, sales is determined by how good a tool something is. If a camera is a really good money-making tool or a very satisfying hobby tool, people will buy more of them and invest more into the system; and third parties will make more and more accessories for it.

Sony definitely deserves some credit for being first to full frame mirrorless ILC, and for sure, that deserves some buzz and excitement. On the other hand, in many ways, to me, it feels that partly Sony is first because they were willing to go to production with iterations of technology that feel unfinished. Also, I think that Sony has a long way to go before it's competitive as a professional or enthusiast tool as a replacement for 1DXII.

It might be a nice thing to have as a novelty, but being limited to only the most popular consumer focal length lenses and having handicapped autofocus speed (especially with extenders), and some odd quirks, in my opinion, limit it to a few specific professional settings at which they excel.

The M50 starter camera is quite impressive in my opinion.

It'll be extremely interesting to see Canon's semi pro and flagship high end pro FF Mirrorless camera's when they are released. I suspect they'll be the top shelf #1 FF mirrorless cameras in the industry.