Congratulations Canon to another great Camera release!!

[skitron]

If anyone if worries about AFMA, then they aren't the target audience for this camera... The people who are the target audience are those who say, of look cool, it has video!

there are plenty of people who can only afford a xxxD body.
they spend more for lenses and AFMA would be usefull for them.

Of course I would love a lexus, but if I could only afford a Hyundai, I wouldn't expect to get high end lexus features in the Hyundai. If you can only afford this camera, save up like just about anyone has to do, or if your set on getting this level of camera, send in your camera/lenses to be calibrated together...

LOL...and Canon service will set AFMA in their service menus that can't be accessed by users...

The point is it costs them nothing to add it and it would be yet another sales bullet. Just think of all the buzz there would have been right here in this very thread if it was announced it DID have AFMA?

The point is, even a Hyundai has cup holders in it...

 

[pierceography]

Good lord, this is why I need to stay away from the Canon forums for a few days after an announcement. If you guys took pictures half as well as you whined about Canon, you'd all be professionals (and ironically, would complain far less about rebel series SLRs).

instead we all take crap pictures like you and complain about no innovation at canon....

Taking pictures > complaining.

well your not taking pictures right now, you are arguing here... so what?

when you are so good at giving advices... why not following them yourself?

I'm at work, buddy. I like to catch a few discussion threads in here when possible, usually to glean whatever I can from the more experienced members.

Like quite a few members of this forum, I use it as a learning tool -- particularly when I don't have my camera with me, such as my paid profession. I take exception to those who prefer to clog the channels with their complaints about Canon gear.

I learned a long time ago that you shouldn't complain about the decisions you make. I made the decision to invest in Canon gear. Of course, I don't always agree with their product direction... but overall I am happy with my gear and feel it suits me. If I ever feel differently, there's a very simple solution.

But "your" right... I should follow my own advice. I'm definitely the one with too much time on my hands.

 

[Canon-F1]

I'm at work, buddy

yeah well maybe others are at work too? 8)
never thought about that uh?

and you seem to be pretty happy to take part in a discussion you think is useless... that´s what i call paradox.

But "your" right... I should follow my own advice. I'm definitely the one with too much time on my hands.

glad you agree...

 

[awinphoto]

If anyone if worries about AFMA, then they aren't the target audience for this camera... The people who are the target audience are those who say, of look cool, it has video!

there are plenty of people who can only afford a xxxD body.
they spend more for lenses and AFMA would be usefull for them.

Of course I would love a lexus, but if I could only afford a Hyundai, I wouldn't expect to get high end lexus features in the Hyundai. If you can only afford this camera, save up like just about anyone has to do, or if your set on getting this level of camera, send in your camera/lenses to be calibrated together...

LOL...and Canon service will set AFMA in their service menus that can't be accessed by users...

The point is it costs them nothing to add it and it would be yet another sales bullet. Just think of all the buzz there would have been right here in this very thread if it was announced it DID have AFMA?

The point is, even a Hyundai has cup holders in it...

Skiltron, the point is the average rebel user isn't an above average photographer... it's a person who goes to costco and see's a rebel as splurging... It's the realtor that would rather do their own photos rather than pay for a pro to do them for them and wonder why the photos dont look right... It's that soccer mom who wants to take the photos of little jimmy and dont give a rats butt about the horrid noise... Then they read in the manual that oh yeah, it has afma, and has NO clue how to do it, or dont even read the manual in the first place and dont even know it's there... then canon has to deal with the morons who buy the camera, reads about afma, and then calls them asking how to do it, and have their employees on the phone with the people for 10-15 minutes at a time trying to talk them through it, wasting their time and money... It's stupid... it's advanced... It's like getting a hyundai accent and complaining it has a stick shift saying it should have pedal shifters instead. It's more than enough camera for what that target market is aimed for.

 

[sdsr]

I was thinking of maybe a baby DSLR for convenience. BUT, no AFMA no sale. Canon, you just lost a potential sale because you don't realize that the baby DSLR could be for newbies and advanced users who want portability.

Is a baby DSLR that convenient? Canon's best lenses tend to be rather large and heavy and feel (to me, anyway) a bit awkward on a Rebel and would presumably feel even worse on an even smaller one. If size and weight are an issue, mirrorless cameras (esp. Micro 4/3) make more sense to me; and with them, AFMA simply isn't an issue.

 

[Canon-F1]

If anyone if worries about AFMA, then they aren't the target audience for this camera... The people who are the target audience are those who say, of look cool, it has video!

there are plenty of people who can only afford a xxxD body.
they spend more for lenses and AFMA would be usefull for them.

Of course I would love a lexus, but if I could only afford a Hyundai, I wouldn't expect to get high end lexus features in the Hyundai. If you can only afford this camera, save up like just about anyone has to do, or if your set on getting this level of camera, send in your camera/lenses to be calibrated together...

LOL...and Canon service will set AFMA in their service menus that can't be accessed by users...

The point is it costs them nothing to add it and it would be yet another sales bullet. Just think of all the buzz there would have been right here in this very thread if it was announced it DID have AFMA?

The point is, even a Hyundai has cup holders in it...

Skiltron, the point is the average rebel user isn't an above average photographer... it's a person who goes to costco and see's a rebel as splurging... It's the realtor that would rather do their own photos rather than pay for a pro to do them for them and wonder why the photos dont look right... It's that soccer mom who wants to take the photos of little jimmy and dont give a rats butt about the horrid noise... Then they read in the manual that oh yeah, it has afma, and has NO clue how to do it, or dont even read the manual in the first place and dont even know it's there... then canon has to deal with the morons who buy the camera, reads about afma, and then calls them asking how to do it, and have their employees on the phone with the people for 10-15 minutes at a time trying to talk them through it, wasting their time and money... It's stupid... it's advanced... It's like getting a hyundai accent and complaining it has a stick shift saying it should have pedal shifters instead. It's more than enough camera for what that target market is aimed for.

what are the sources for your claims?
you make this up out of the air i guess.

i know many photographer who only have a 550D or similiar entry level stuff.
some work in asia as pro photographer for magazines.
they borrow lenses as they need them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avikbangalee/

they just don´t have the money to buy a pro body!!
that does not mean they are all to stupid to know AFMA.

 

[Zlatko]

I teach beginning photo classes at my lab and trust me, there are way too many menu options already - the average person does not want and will never use all those settings.

Exactly! There is a place for complex menus and advanced features, and this tiny camera isn't the place. These cameras already have far too many settings for most people who buy them. These buyers want good pictures, not more features.

People who freak out and complain about such things seem to have little understanding or appreciation for the needs of others.

As for the supposed lack of innovation, did Sony or Nikon just introduce the world's smallest and lightest DSLR today? No, Canon did. Somehow that innovation is overlooked.

 

[Canon-F1]

People who freak out and complain about such things seem to have little understanding or appreciation for the needs of others.

calling the kettle black.... :

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

If anyone if worries about AFMA, then they aren't the target audience for this camera... The people who are the target audience are those who say, of look cool, it has video!

there are plenty of people who can only afford a xxxD body.
they spend more for lenses and AFMA would be usefull for them.

Of course I would love a lexus, but if I could only afford a Hyundai, I wouldn't expect to get high end lexus features in the Hyundai. If you can only afford this camera, save up like just about anyone has to do, or if your set on getting this level of camera, send in your camera/lenses to be calibrated together...

LOL...and Canon service will set AFMA in their service menus that can't be accessed by users...

The point is it costs them nothing to add it and it would be yet another sales bullet. Just think of all the buzz there would have been right here in this very thread if it was announced it DID have AFMA?

The point is, even a Hyundai has cup holders in it...

Skiltron, the point is the average rebel user isn't an above average photographer... it's a person who goes to costco and see's a rebel as splurging... It's the realtor that would rather do their own photos rather than pay for a pro to do them for them and wonder why the photos dont look right... It's that soccer mom who wants to take the photos of little jimmy and dont give a rats butt about the horrid noise... Then they read in the manual that oh yeah, it has afma, and has NO clue how to do it, or dont even read the manual in the first place and dont even know it's there... then canon has to deal with the morons who buy the camera, reads about afma, and then calls them asking how to do it, and have their employees on the phone with the people for 10-15 minutes at a time trying to talk them through it, wasting their time and money... It's stupid... it's advanced... It's like getting a hyundai accent and complaining it has a stick shift saying it should have pedal shifters instead. It's more than enough camera for what that target market is aimed for.

what are the sources for your claims?
you make this up out of the air i guess.

i know many photographer who only have a 550D.
some work in asia as pro photographer for magazines.
they borrow lenses as they need them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avikbangalee/

they just don´t have the money to buy a pro body!!
that does not mean they are all to stupid to know AFMA.

I know some really good (and serious) photographers who used Rebels for a long time, a few still do.
especially students

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Does anyone remember the film days, when a new camera model was introduced every five years or more? Now anything over a year and people are freaking out. I started on the fantastic manual Pentax K1000 which had about a 20 year production run (and I am pretty sure is the best selling camera model of all time).

Yes, but as see below did they come out with an EOS651 and EOS652 just to put a new dial on them? No and look below:

OK, the t5i does seem unnecessary - why not stick with t4i?

Exactly this one is a total waste. Waste of time making all new info for it, tooling up new housings, etc. Just keep the t4i out there another year then (with firmware update to add AMFA). How on earth can it not have at least gotten the wifi/network stuff?

As for AFMA, I use a 5D2, I have large aperture lenses, and I have never had a need for AFMA. Plus, no one is using large aperture lenses on these cameras and it would just be another confusing menu item. I teach beginning photo classes at my lab and trust me, there are way too many menu options already - the average person does not want and will never use all those settings.

Well, I have yet to find a body+lens combo that has worked best at AMFA 0.
I have found many cases where it made a radical difference.
I think the average person finds it more confusing when they aim at something and find the darn focus 3' in front what they aimed at in 2/3rd of their shots no?

 

[Zlatko]

People who freak out and complain about such things seem to have little understanding or appreciation for the needs of others.

calling the kettle black.... :

This camera will meet some people's needs very well. They will absolutely love the size and weight, and the features that it does offer. It is brilliantly built for them. If you need AFMA or some other feature, buy a camera that has it. Plenty of cameras do. Not every camera needs to be designed to meet you personal needs.

 

[emag]

Here is a nice short review of hands on with a pre-production SL1.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2013/03/21/first-impressions-canon-rebel-sl1/

'twould be a good astrophotography camera if modified. I have eyepieces that weigh more. The shorty forty looks BIG on the SL1!

 

[awinphoto]

People who freak out and complain about such things seem to have little understanding or appreciation for the needs of others.

calling the kettle black.... :

This camera will meet some people's needs very well. They will absolutely love the size and weight, and the features that it does offer. It is brilliantly built for them. If you need AFMA or some other feature, buy a camera that has it. Plenty of cameras do. Not every camera needs to be designed to meet you personal needs.

1000+ well stated

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

AFMA is a product feature that Canon uses to convince buyers to move up to a more expensive model. If a ton of buyers sent their camera or lens in for warranty adjustment of the focus, they would add it to save themselves money. However, the kit lenses have a small aperture and larger depth of field, so focus errors are usually not a issue. Very few Rebel buyers buy expensive wide aperture lenses where any focus error really stands out.

Of course, there are some who do this, but few pay $800 for a camera and then buy $X,000 in lenses.

Its really no different from buying a automobile or a refrigerator, manufacturers add low cost features to differentiate more expensive models which often do not cost more to make, or the selling price is a lot higher than the cost of the features.

Its the way commerce works, the "UPSELL"

 

[papa-razzi]

Can anyone confirm if the T5i has the same new sensor that the SL1 has? The marketing materials clearly state the SL1 has a new sensor, but it is unclear if the T5i has the sensor from the T4i or the SL1.

The other thing that is inconsistent in the marketing materials is the difference between the AF systems in the T5i and SL1. The T5i has 9 cross-type AF points. I think the SL1 has only one cross-type AF point, but the bullet list in the announcement for the SL1 says 9 cross-type - which conflicts with the review posted here, and the body of the text in the SL1 announcement.

 

[missitnoonan]

On the AFMA thing, why does everyone assume it can be simply implemented via firmware in the 60d or Rebel models? I assume it takes some processing power to implement on the fly and some storage to keep the values for each lens. How do we know these cameras posses it?

My guess is they do, but not every Digic 5 has to be created equal, it may just be a general architecture.

I fall into the category of people that can't be bothered with it anyway, bought a 60d fully knowing it wasn't available and fully knowing I'd never take advantage of it.

 

[Zlatko]

AFMA is a product feature that Canon uses to convince buyers to move up to a more expensive model. If a ton of buyers sent their camera or lens in for warranty adjustment of the focus, they would add it to save themselves money. However, the kit lenses have a small aperture and larger depth of field, so focus errors are usually not a issue. Very few Rebel buyers buy expensive wide aperture lenses where any focus error really stands out.

Of course, there are some who do this, but few pay $800 for a camera and then buy $X,000 in lenses.

Its really no different from buying a automobile or a refrigerator, manufacturers add low cost features to differentiate more expensive models which often do not cost more to make, or the selling price is a lot higher than the cost of the features.

Its the way commerce works, the "UPSELL"

i guess we all know why canon does it.. does not make it right.

So it's somehow wrong to convince buyers to spend more money for more features? Wrong to offer a diverse product line with products at different price levels? Then we photographers should follow the same rules: never offer clients a way to spend more to get more. Never offer any extra product for any extra money. Offer just one product at one price, one size fits all? Or, offer various products but all at the same price, no matter what it costs to make and service them? ??? In what galaxy does business work that way?

 

[awinphoto]

Skiltron, the point is the average rebel user isn't an above average photographer... it's a person who goes to costco and see's a rebel as splurging... It's the realtor that would rather do their own photos rather than pay for a pro to do them for them and wonder why the photos dont look right... It's that soccer mom who wants to take the photos of little jimmy and dont give a rats butt about the horrid noise... Then they read in the manual that oh yeah, it has afma, and has NO clue how to do it, or dont even read the manual in the first place and dont even know it's there... then canon has to deal with the morons who buy the camera, reads about afma, and then calls them asking how to do it, and have their employees on the phone with the people for 10-15 minutes at a time trying to talk them through it, wasting their time and money... It's stupid... it's advanced... It's like getting a hyundai accent and complaining it has a stick shift saying it should have pedal shifters instead. It's more than enough camera for what that target market is aimed for.

awinphoto i tell you a secret!

MONEY has nothing to do with intelligence, artistic vision or knowledge about a certain topic.

but MONEY does have much to do with what people can AFFORD!

what i want to say, there are A LOT of people who could make very good use of AFMA but can not afford a body with that feature.
or they wisely chose to invest the limited budget they have in lenses not bodys.

as mentioned before by someone, AFMA is a feature to fix canons own shortcomings in the manufacturing process. it should be a standard feature!

Dude, what dont you get, AFMA is a pull through to get you to buy a better camera... done, simple, it is what it is... On my photography pricing, i have certain pull throughs to get people to pay a few more hundred dollars with me... IF canon wanted people to settle for a T5i rather than get a 70D or 7D or 5d3, canon would be broke. I hate to break it to you, but canon isn't going to offer professional features in a consumer product. It probably doesn't cost car manufactures anything more to install pedal shifters, but they still dont offer it on their ENTRY LINE CARS. Didn't know this was a big secret that i'm revealing...

Also, if there are pro's making a living with a rebel, wonderful... kudo's, they are in the vast minority. Heck, my 80 year old grandpa was a pro back in his day, he owns a rebel. It does everything he needs, granted he came back from the film and darkroom days and had to do everything manually as there was no AF then.

F1, yes, I have seen realtors do their own photos, i've known many real estate photographers go out of business because they are pinching pennies and doing it themselves... Quality has plumetted, but it is what it is. And yes, if you look objectively at the markets, 5d (wedding and general portrait semi pro-pro), 7d (sports semi pro-pro), XXD advanced amateur to semi pro, xxxd, amateur... xxxxd (paperweight)... okay the last one i'm joking, but really... it's not a secret... I've been a working pro long enough to know what certain gear is designed for.

In the end, Jeff Gordon could probably race the hell out of a dodge neon, but the dodge neon was not designed for his demographic in mind. end of story.

 

[Zlatko]

as mentioned before by someone, AFMA is a feature to fix canons own shortcomings in the manufacturing process. it should be a standard feature!

Why stop at just AFMA? Everything should be a standard feature on the $649 13.05 ounce camera. Everything has the potential to be useful to some photographer somewhere. And added complexity never stopped anyone from buying a camera. Yep, we know Canon's business better than they do.

 

[sagittariansrock]

Still no AFMA...something that doesn't cost them a dime at this point. In fact it probably costs them extra to disable it from the common firmware code base.

Think about it... Do you complain when Starbucks charges you 1.50 for the foamed milk when you choose a latte over an espresso? The milk doesn't cost more than 5 cents, right?
Canon is here to do business and adding AFMA is not about how much it costs additionally, but about how much "value" it adds. And they want you to pay a premium for that "value". Nothing really wrong with that.
You can also wonder why non-L lenses don't come with free lens hoods. Maybe raise the price $ 20 (no one will even notice it for the higher-end non-Ls) and include the hood? But Canon wants that added "value" to bd exclusive to the Ls.
It's all marketing, and unfortunately sound marketing. There's nothing wrong in it, however the consumer may feel. Upgrade if you want that added value!