deciding on new L tele lens (also for safari!)

[reynard]

Hi guys, new to this place, appreciate any help on the following decision to make:

Looking to upgrade to a 6D, switching to FF. Currently shooting with a 450D (Rebel in US), a 17-40 f/4 L and until recently 70-200 f/4 L.

I wasn't happy with the 70-200 reach any longer so recently sold it, and am starting to regret it. Hadn't yet considered adding a 1.4x or 2x extender (simply wasn't aware of their existence!).

First thought was to upgrade to a 70-200 f/2.8 L, and heavily debating to take the IS or not. I hardly use a tripod, mostly hand holding, and typically a mix of day and low light. Clearly IS is preferred, maybe becomes essential, but need to keep a budget in mind. I'd still like to buy an extender to get that additional range, especially when on safari.

Otherwise maybe the 70-300 f/4-5.6 L or the 100-400 f/4-5.6 L. Got the IS, no need for the extender (which doesn't seem to be officially compatible with the 70-300 anyway). Here though my concern is with the higher aperture. I'm not big on sports photography but like a relatively quick lens, and 100m at f4.5 is slow. And again, expect lower light conditions (early morning dawn on safari) to be a bit tougher on these lenses, or am I wrong?

One more thing I came across on the 100-400mm; vignetting around the 400mm. Is this a big issue or hardly noticeable?

Any tips on the best combination of the above (or something else) is highly appreciated.

Since I'm upgrading to the 6D I need to keep a budget in mind, but don't mind spending $1000-1500 on a new lens as well. Wud like eventually to buy a 24-105 or something similar as more of an all-round lens, which depending on this lens purchase might have to be postponed!

thanks

 

[Loswr]

I'd get the 24-105L as a kit lens - you won't find a new one (and likeky not a used one) cheaper than that. It's a great general purpose zoom for FF (the 17-40L isn't, IMO).

For the long end, the 70-300L is excellent, and on the 6D you can push the ISO quite high. But depending on where your safari is, 300mm is pretty short (it's ok in the Ngorongoro crater, though, for example). You might consider renting a 200-400/1.4x for that trip...

 

[Kerry B]

Why not look at the 300f4 IS. Great lens and works well with extenders. In the UK a mint second hand lens will set you back around £800. This will leave you sufficient to buy a 24-105 kit lens and 1.4 mkii extender.

 

[AlanF]

My one safari used the 7D and the 70-200L f/4, and I was happy with that as our game warden got us pretty close to the action. However, with the 6D, the 100-400 comes into its own. It isn't the sharpest lens on the block but it's more than good enough for big game and not too distant birds, and the zoom range is most suitable. On the other hand, if Neuro is willing to buy you the 200-400 and carry it for you, then that would be much sharper and the 1.4xTC would be handy. But, be nice to him.

The 300 prime would not be suitable as you need a zoom for a safari.

 

[JPAZ]

My 70-200 f/4 IS is wonderful but for more reach I opted for the 100-400. It is slower, but in good light it is not a big issue. Why not rent one and try it? I was almost going to get the 70-300 L which is excellent, but won't take a Canon TC and I wanted a bit more reach on FF.

 

[magna42]

Congrats on the 6D excellent camera and I'm putting it out there that I'm jealous about the whole safari thing. Now that that's out of the way, With the 6D focusing you could go with the 100-400 and a 1.4 teleconverter. (I used the combination during my son's Graduation a few months ago). The 6D had no problem with the focus with this combo.

Whatever you decide enjoy your new camera and trip

 

[scottkinfw]

Congrats on trip and gear!

I have been twice to Tanzania including Ngorongoro per Neuro, and I agree. I shot with 5DIII (full frame) and 50D (crop). The longest lens I had was 400 mm f5.6. I did fine for most of what I saw.

Rather than give you lens advice, let me give you some things to think about advice.

Second time I was there, I noticed this more than the first. There really are a lot of different types of tours. Some actually looked like double deck tour buses seen in cities. These were packed to the gills, and posed several problems. Relating to photography in particular, they were limited to roads (actually dirt ruts for the wheels). Animals could be very far away, and obviously you need long lenses. Additionally, they were so cramped, it would be difficult to pan without hitting someone.

Fortunately, my tours were on the other end of the spectrum. We had a driver and Range rover with I either 3 or 4 seating rows. Only two of us on the trip so we could spread out and shoot from the window (limited opening) or the roof which had a slide back tarp like thing. We had a row of seats between us so we could really move. The only limiting thing was weight restrictions on the plane which was like 12KG (~24 lbs- check your carrier).

So my non-technical advice to you is know what your touring conditions will be- will you get close to animals or not, will it be crowded or not? Know weight restrictions on plane. Get a bag that will fit even the smallest overhead so you don't have to part with your gear. Then get the best lens you can.

Most often I used 70-200, or 300. I also kept a shorter lens on second camera 24-105 in case something came up close. I didn't use the 400 all that much because we got very close, but there were time it helped. It was useful for birds, and even more reach would have been good, but I like the larger animals.

sek

 

[ForumMuppet]

One thing to note is that the 6D does not AF with the 100-400mm and 1.4x extender as that becomes an f/8 lens. The only cameras that twill AF that combination are the 5DIII, with the firmware update, and a 1-series body. But, there is a work around for the 6D:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/pt/content/education/tipsandtricks/3710.do

 

[RKW]

I spent three weeks in Tanzania earlier this year and had a T3i with me (I have subsequently upgraded to a 5D3). On that trip I had a Sigma 150-500 which worked very well for me (I have a good copy). I also had a Sigma 1.4x teleconverter. That was a pretty economical setup which performed pretty well. The main lesson that I learned was that you do want the longest lens that you can afford. In some parks the vehicles are not allowed to off-road so you can't always maneuver into a position as close as you would like. The 500 (or 700 with the teleconverter) was on an APS-C and not a full frame.

When I return I plan to take a Canon 100-400, Canon 1.4 and 2.0 teleconverters (although the latter won't allow AF on the 5D3) and my Canon 24-105. Those lenses will support taking landscapes, large game, as well as small subjects (e.g. birds, insects, and plants).

I would recommend that you do use a lens with IS. There can be a lot of vibration in vehicles with people shifting around or the engine running. Light was never a problem - it's pretty bright from dawn to dusk.

Have a great time and take a lot of memory cards. I took around 600 photos a day.

 

[Loswr]

Second time I was there, I noticed this more than the first. There really are a lot of different types of tours. Some actually looked like double deck tour buses seen in cities. These were packed to the gills, and posed several problems. Relating to photography in particular, they were limited to roads (actually dirt ruts for the wheels). Animals could be very far away, and obviously you need long lenses. Additionally, they were so cramped, it would be difficult to pan without hitting someone.

Fortunately, my tours were on the other end of the spectrum. We had a driver and Range rover with I either 3 or 4 seating rows. Only two of us on the trip so we could spread out and shoot from the window (limited opening) or the roof which had a slide back tarp like thing. We had a row of seats between us so we could really move.

Excellent advice. In Tanzania, I recall two main types of vehicles - minivans and Land Rovers. Like you, our trip was just my wife and I with a driver in a Land Rover, with nice pop-up top for shade.

I disagree that the minivans are limited to the roads - as you can see in the image below, they can try to get off the dirt tracks. Of course, there'd better be a proper safari vehicle around for the rescue.

While this rescue was taking place, the pair below was looking on from the grass a few yards away, and the lioness in front was apparently very amused...

 

[AlanF]

Further info and further thoughts. The safari trips tend to leave before dawn and then return mid morning and then again late afternoon, returning after dusk. Whereas there is plenty of light after sun up and before sundown, a wide aperure lens is very useful for the low light levels. Short of taking two bodies, one with a 300mm f/2.8 and the other with a zoom +TCs, I'd be tempted to take a 70-200 f/2.8 II, to be used native in low light and where suitable at other times, plus a 2x TC if needed for longer distance shots. A compromise, I know, but useful afterwards as well as on the safari.

Our safari used converted Toyota trucks with three rows of open seats and no awning. This type of truck was, in Top Gear, placed on the upper floor of a building, which was then demolished. The truck fell through the floors and then Jeremy Clarkson drove it out of the ruins. The Toyota was used by our group to rescue a Landrover that was stuck.

Canon 7D+ 70-200 f/4 IS f/5.6 1/800 iso 640 at 200mm, 100% crop

 

[magna42]

One thing to note is that the 6D does not AF with the 100-400mm and 1.4x extender as that becomes an f/8 lens. The only cameras that twill AF that combination are the 5DIII, with the firmware update, and a 1-series body. But, there is a work around for the 6D:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/pt/content/education/tipsandtricks/3710.do

Not sure how well (or if) the 6D/100-400 works with the Canon 1.4 TC, but 6D/100-400 combo with the Kenko DGX Pro 300 work great. As a side benefit, the Kenko TC works with Canon 70-300 unlike the Canon TC

 

[AlanF]

One thing to note is that the 6D does not AF with the 100-400mm and 1.4x extender as that becomes an f/8 lens. The only cameras that twill AF that combination are the 5DIII, with the firmware update, and a 1-series body. But, there is a work around for the 6D:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/pt/content/education/tipsandtricks/3710.do

Not sure how well (or if) the 6D/100-400 works with the Canon 1.4 TC, but 6D/100-400 combo with the Kenko DGX Pro 300 work great. As a side benefit, the Kenko TC works with Canon 70-300 unlike the Canon TC

I would not recommend using the TC with the 100-400. First, in my experience there is little difference between using the 1.4 (and that is the Canon 1.4 III on a 5DIII, which is a Canon approved combination) and rezzing. Up 1.4x in PS. Secondly, you lose a stop of aperture and have poorer focussing.

 

[surapon]

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/canon_wins_three_major_EISA_awards.do?utm_source=newsletter_august_4_13&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter

 

[reynard]

Thanks for the gear and trip tips! Going to tanzania, first safari, to serengeti/ngorongoro and tarangire. Super psyched! Decided to go with a private car and driver for just the two of us, exactly for the reasons mentioned above. I enjoy birds, but don't want to be stuck on a mixed oversized vehicle with a couple of over excited watchers while there's big game to spot!

Due to the luggage weight limit (thanks scott for the reminder) I was planning on bringing only one body. I think I'll manage and expect to be using the tele most of the time anyway. Or I'll hook up the misses with the other and stick a 25-104 L on there. No point if you're mostly spotting game 50m away.

Didn't consider a 300 prime, prefer to have the zoom and think it's also more useful after.

Absolutely like the renting idea but I haven't found a shop in town (Geneva, Switzerland) that carries a decent selection. Got a colleague who's part time pro photographer, will with him if he's got any advice or gear for rent. If I rent, I'd take something badass just for safari over something more practical/allround that I would consider buying.

I'm tempted to go with the 70-200 and 2x TC. Then debate on taking the f4 IS or f2.8 without. Don't really have the budget for f2.8 IS. Was really pleased with the 70-200's overall performance.

Otherwise the 70-300, but need to test that first. Think I will lose quality at f5.6 and full zoom in the late afternoon, or am I just paranoid? And this doesn't take a canon TC?

Need to read up on compatibility with TCs and auto focus (workarounds), I'd hate to lose that.

thanks again guys

 

[pato]

Just checked for a rental option of the 200-400mm in Switzerland, but it seems that no online rental service has that one
I guess I would take either the 70-200 f2.8 with a TC, or the 100-400 without one. There is one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet and that is dust while changing TC/lens. I have no idea how it really is on a safari, but my belly tells me that there might be quite some dust/sand in the air which would be bad to exchange the TC/lens.
If that really is the case, then I really would go with the 100-400, as it is probably most of the time enough reach.
There are many online rental services in Switzerland that offer the 100-400 and also the 70-200 f2.8 IS though, so you might want to rent instead of buy it.