Did 85L NEED to have slow focus, or just a fluke thing they were trying?

unfocused said:
Maiaibing said:
YuengLinger said:
The "slow" focus was very intentional. Canon knew that only the most discerning of portrait photographers would buy this, keeping it out of the hands of the riff-raff gearheads. We certainly don't need a pack of ninja extremists running around shooting fast-moving targets at f/1.2. Simply wouldn't do.
It was certainly not intentional. Canon made it clear that they tried to make the lens focus much faster than the original and Canon indeed continues to advertise the 85L II as both a sports action lens and a portrait lens.
I suggest you read the original press release and current Canon sales advertising.
And once again sarcasm flies completely over the head of another forum participant.
;D That's funny...yes I can just see the design team setting out to make a lens with nice slow AF. Let's call it the "glacial" brief.

I had an 85L I back in the 1Ds days. Glacial AF? You could make coffee while it thought it all out. It was quickly on-sold as my portrait shooting style never involves subjects in a 100% static pose. Maybe technically perfect but not enough life-force. When it did catch focus it was 85L quality as advertised. A rented 85L II was certainly a big improvement, but nowhere near enough AF zip for this photographers style.

-pw
 
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pwp said:
unfocused said:
Maiaibing said:
YuengLinger said:
The "slow" focus was very intentional. Canon knew that only the most discerning of portrait photographers would buy this, keeping it out of the hands of the riff-raff gearheads. We certainly don't need a pack of ninja extremists running around shooting fast-moving targets at f/1.2. Simply wouldn't do.
It was certainly not intentional. Canon made it clear that they tried to make the lens focus much faster than the original and Canon indeed continues to advertise the 85L II as both a sports action lens and a portrait lens.
I suggest you read the original press release and current Canon sales advertising.
And once again sarcasm flies completely over the head of another forum participant.
;D That's funny...yes I can just see the design team setting out to make a lens with nice slow AF. Let's call it the "glacial" brief.

I had an 85L I back in the 1Ds days. Glacial AF? You could make coffee while it thought it all out. It was quickly on-sold as my portrait shooting style never involves subjects in a 100% static pose. Maybe technically perfect but not enough life-force. When it did catch focus it was 85L quality as advertised. A rented 85L II was certainly a big improvement, but nowhere near enough AF zip for this photographers style.

-pw

pw, what do you use for 85mm primarily? I have the 85 f/1.8 and 70-200 f/2.8L II IS. Both pretty great for different situations.

I know many think this lens is far off from replacement, but I would not be surprised to see a new version of the 85L in the next couple of years. There is a lot of value that can be offered by fixing the focusing and other quirks, and this FL is extremely popular. If they can manage a more field-friendly design and autofocus speed comparable to the 50mm f/1.2L, I will ditch my 85 f/1.8 for the new version of the 85L.
 
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Ruined said:
pwp said:
;D That's funny...yes I can just see the design team setting out to make a lens with nice slow AF. Let's call it the "glacial" brief.

I had an 85L I back in the 1Ds days. Glacial AF? You could make coffee while it thought it all out. It was quickly on-sold as my portrait shooting style never involves subjects in a 100% static pose. Maybe technically perfect but not enough life-force. When it did catch focus it was 85L quality as advertised. A rented 85L II was certainly a big improvement, but nowhere near enough AF zip for this photographers style.

-pw

pw, what do you use for 85mm primarily? I have the 85 f/1.8 and 70-200 f/2.8L II IS. Both pretty great for different situations....

Based on the 85L 's reputation, I bought it as a primary portrait lens. While I was somewhat aware of the slow AF, nothing prepared me for how slow it really was. My loss rate in portrait shoots regardless of aperture made it an epic fail for my business. The 70-200 f/2.8isII is far and away my most used portrait lens, with a very high keeper rate and happy clients.

In hindsight I may have been better off with the lens you bought, the EF 85 f/1.8. It has a vastly different look to the 85L, but at least it has viable AF.

-pw
 
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pwp said:
<•••>
Based on the 85L 's reputation, I bought it as a primary portrait lens. While I was somewhat aware of the slow AF, nothing prepared me for how slow it really was. My loss rate in portrait shoots regardless of aperture made it an epic fail for my business. The 70-200 f/2.8isII is far and away my most used portrait lens, with a very high keeper rate and happy clients.

In hindsight I may have been better off with the lens you bought, the EF 85 f/1.8. It has a vastly different look to the 85L, but at least it has viable AF.

-pw

I have this lens for many years, since it was released and this is one of my lenses that I enjoy most of all.
Never ever had any issues with AF precision with my previous 1Ds m3 and then with current 1Dx.
More than 90% of shots are perfectly sharp. Almost never had any shot that is not sharp.

Maybe there are some issues with other cameras but for 1Ds M3 and 1Dx this lens was always the perfect match. And now also on Sony a7S this is just so good.

I think that EF85 f/1.2 requires some understanding from the user to get desired results.
First of all DOF at 1.2 is so thin so that just slight movement of the model or photographer after getting focus (half button press) and shutter release would result in the focus shift and focus will be at the wrong point.
The other thing is using proper focus point selection and focus mode selection.
So when using EF85 L/1.2 m2 with 1Dx when shooting at f1.2 I mostly use continious shoting mode with continious AF mode with focus priority for the first and next shots. Focusing and then pressing release button to get at least 3 shots. Then in LR i can select the most sharp image, though most frequently they are all more or less the same. Trick here is that continious AF compensates for slight focusing distance changes when making the shot and continious shooting mode would allow to get best image from the sequence.
Maybe this is not very suitable for non 1D bodies which do not have so avanced AF as 1Dx and battery power is lower resulting in slower AF.
With EF85 F/1.2 m2 and 1DX I also had no issues with objects moving not very fast when using method described above.

And I also enjoy this lens very much on Sony A7S for low light capabilities of this combo.

Focusing manually at f1.2 using focus peaking on A7S is so easy and much more enjoyable than on 1Dx as I can focus perfectly at almost full darkness without using focus assist light.

With 85F/1.2 on A7S I just do manually prefocus quickly and then just shift my body slightly back or forward to get required part of the object to be most sharp. It is just fun to use 85 f1.2 on A7S.
 
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Viggo said:
If I had to choose what to change with the 85 L II, it wouldn't be AF on top of that list, but purple fringing and sharpness wide open along with no distortion.

Maybe in some future with ver 3 of this lens?
As a matter of fact purple fringing is not too much of the issue for portraits or indoor shots where there is no high contrast transitions between light and dark details.
This is mostly visible for night street shots but this lens is not for this.
A bit of softness wide open is acceptable.

For someone who want almost perfect 85mm lens wide open there is manual Zeiss Otus 85 f1.4 available though its cost is much higher compared with Canon one.
 
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Neutral said:
Viggo said:
If I had to choose what to change with the 85 L II, it wouldn't be AF on top of that list, but purple fringing and sharpness wide open along with no distortion.

Maybe in some future with ver 3 of this lens?
As a matter of fact purple fringing is not too much of the issue for portraits or indoor shots where there is no high contrast transitions between light and dark details.
This is mostly visible for night street shots but this lens is not for this.
A bit of softness wide open is acceptable.

For someone who want almost perfect 85mm lens wide open there is manual Zeiss Otus 85 f1.4 available though its cost is much higher compared with Canon one.

Yeah, no it's no just shooting a street light in the night that shows the weaknesses of this lens.
 
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Viggo said:
If I had to choose what to change with the 85 L II, it wouldn't be AF on top of that list, but purple fringing and sharpness wide open along with distortion.

If they dropped the lens to f/1.4 aperture in version 3, all of those issues would likely be easier to manage.
 
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Neutral said:
Viggo said:
If I had to choose what to change with the 85 L II, it wouldn't be AF on top of that list, but purple fringing and sharpness wide open along with no distortion.

Maybe in some future with ver 3 of this lens?
As a matter of fact purple fringing is not too much of the issue for portraits or indoor shots where there is no high contrast transitions between light and dark details.
This is mostly visible for night street shots but this lens is not for this.
A bit of softness wide open is acceptable.

For someone who want almost perfect 85mm lens wide open there is manual Zeiss Otus 85 f1.4 available though its cost is much higher compared with Canon one.

I am keenly interested in what the Sigma 85 Art will bring.

I have the Sigma 35mm (and I love it) so I will skip the 50 as too similar, and go for the 85mm if it looks good. It won't be f/1.2 but I wonder if it will be another f/1.4 offering. Fine with me; DOF at 85mm is pretty darn thin at 1.4 or even 1.8.
 
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FW to retract the focus group on power-down would be handy

It would be handy if there were a firmware feature in the Canon bodies that allowed an option so that when the camera was switched off, lenses that are focussed by wire (the 85L, the 40mm 2.8 etc) would be automatically focussed back to their retracted state.

It would be akin to the option to have the sensor perform it's self-cleaning process when power switch is turned to off.

Not a big deal, but would be a thoughtful little feature to have.


d.
 
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