Disappointed with Canon?

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adventurer

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I switched from Nikon to Canon 2 years ago. The main reason for doing it was the lack of a lens in the Nikon range that was lightweight and had a long enough reach for wildlife photography (please no one mention the horrible 80-400 VR). I got a 50D and a 70-200 F4 IS + 1.4TC. Compared to my older Nikon D200 + 70-300 VR setup I do see some improvements on sharpness, not surprisingly based on the lens improvement, but I was shocked by the Canon's failure to AF in low light. I've now got a 1D Mark IV, and guess what? It's even worse. Seems like Canon is going backwards on low light AF with every newer, pricier body they bring out. As someone who specifically needs to shoot in low light, this leaves me with quite a dilemma. Would I go back to Nikon? They still have not rectified the lens range problem so probably not.
 
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Ubi said:
I've been using exclusively Canon digital SLRs for the past ten years and have a collection of L glass to use with my 5D. Recently I've been given some Nikon kit to play with by my college and I believe the D700 and D3s blow away anything that Canon has in the market place.

My story is this:
I had two EOS-20D bodies and a 50mm, 24-105 L and a 75-300. I never bought the EF-S lenses because I always anticipated the arrival of cheaper full frame cameras.

When I bought my first DSLR, the EOS-20D, I felt that the choice was pretty simple. The only serious contender was the Nikon D70. The 20D had slightly more megapixels but still considerably better image quality, especially at high ISOs. The autofocus on the 20D was also better. In general, the 20D felt like a much more solid camera than the Nikon D70. The only thing that bothered me back then was the fact that Nikon D70 had faster flash sync speed.

In 2008, I was going to upgrade to full frame. When the 5DMKII came, it was a huge disappointment to me. I had definitely expected to see a camera with less megapixels, faster frame rate, better high ISO performance and improved autofocus. Instead, they came out with a 21megapixel camera.; the high ISO pictures looked awful and overprocessed to me. The autofocus seemed to be essentially the same as in the 20D. Not necessarily bad but no improvement after 4 years of development seemed like stagnation to me, especially when I looked at what Nikon had in the D700.

After much agony, I decided to buy the Nikon D700 instead and start building a collection of Nikon glass . Yes, I am an amateur; I have never even tried to make money on my pictures. I do understand that for many pros, autofocus isn't that important if you are working with models that are posing for you and that megapixels may be more important if your customer demands 20+ megapixel images. However, I am an amateur and my situation is different and I prefer to use equipment that make sense to me.

I have been more than happy with the D700. It took some time getting used to the Nikon controls but now I am comfortable with them. I especially like the fact that the power button is together with the shutter button.

Ubi said:
Add to that Canon's absence from the mirrorless and pellicle markets and I wonder what's going on, or not, at big red. Getting rid of a mirror on a trapeze flapping about is a significant and logical development but Canon seems stuck in the past.

I am a skeptic when it comes to mirrorless. At least I don't believe in EVFs any time soon. They would probably need to have much more resolution than what is possible today.

Ubi said:
If we're forced to do that it will take massive technological innovation to persuade us to sell up again and come back to Canon.

Personally, I am still keeping my Canon lenses and flashes around, just in case they release a better camera than what's in the Nikon lineup. I occasionally even use my 20Ds, especially with the 75-300, since I don't have any telezoom for my Nikon. I wouldn't mind buying the 5DMK3 if it happens to be good enough.

However, I am still disappointed with Canon. I am especially disappointed with their aggressive pushing ahead in the megapixel race. I feel like their engineers are forced sacrifice image quality in order to satisfy the marketing department's demand for more megapixels. I think this is especially apparent when you look at cameras such as the 50D. Sadly enough, I suspect that Nikon is on the way to descend along the same path down to megapixel hell.
 
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zsolex

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Hi,

hesitation between 7D and D300s.
I do not have any lens yet.
If I have to decide now I would choose the 7D. It has amazing video performance, Canon has EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM lens, Nikon also has same lens but without image stabilisation. The USM is faster than the AF-S lens..
The negatives for the 7D: the 18Mpx is to many for me, instead of this I would prefer less ISO noise. The Nikon AF systems work better in low light condition and the metering is maybe better in Nikon.
The Nikon jpeg processing is better.
I think I have to wait for the Nikon D400.. but the Nikon word -I think- is more expensive than Canon..
 
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Dec 13, 2010
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Can anyone tell me if all Nikons is like the D90 which have to hold each button down while adjusting the wheel? I almost threw it to the floor when trying it, every time I tried to adjust AF or ISO or whatever I pushed the button , released and moved my finger to the wheel, and it had jumped out of that function. This . Is. USELESS!!

Just for that, I would NEVER buy a Nikon, they stow away things in a menu that should be on the outside of the camera.

7d all the way bro... But I agree, it should have been 12 mp....
 
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Viggo said:
Can anyone tell me if all Nikons is like the D90 which have to hold each button down while adjusting the wheel? I almost threw it to the floor when trying it, every time I tried to adjust AF or ISO or whatever I pushed the button , released and moved my finger to the wheel, and it had jumped out of that function. This . Is. USELESS!!

This is the default behavior on D700 as well but you can configure it. I recommend that you check your D90 to see if you can configure it the way you like it. On the D700 it's under the "CUSTOM SETTINGS MENU", "Controls" , f10 "Release button to use dial". If you change that setting to "ON", then you can release the button and use the wheel.

Personally, I like the default behavior better ;)
 
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zsolex said:
Hi,

hesitation between 7D and D300s.

Have you considered D7000?

It is cheaper than D300s but is said to have a better sensor. I believe that the Dxomark measurements are more or less correct and they seem to indicate that the D7000 is a quite big step forward, when it comes to sensor performance.

Of course, the D7000 only has 39 AF points and no Compactflash slot, only SD. I tested the D7000 recently and it seems to be a really nice camera. I also got the impression that it has a slightly larger viewfinder than what is common on DX/APS-C cameras.

Usually, the difference between a new model and the previous model is quite small but it seems like D7000 really is a step forward when it comes to the sensor. Hope that the link works:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/619|0/%28appareil2%29/614|0/%28appareil3%29/680|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Nikon/%28brand3%29/Nikon

If not, you can go to dxomark.com and select "Camera Sensor" => "Compare Sensors".
 
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macfly

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Ubi, right with you there, been renting the 3ds a lot of late because it is simply a far superior sensor/system/glass combination to my current 1Ds MkIII & L glass.

Canon need to keep at least some focus on those of us who care about ultimate quality at the top end, though I did learn today they haven't even been selling the Mklll for a year because the 5D has wiped out its sales completely!
 
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These discussion are always a bit funny. It reminds me of a BMW-Mercedes discussion. One is faster the other roomier, one has more HP the other more features. But both build top edge cars.

I think we can say the same about Canon and Nikon. I think Nikon has the edge at the moment, a few years back it was Canon. So why switch, in two years from now that could change again, and then switch again?

I think the most important thing is, that you know your tool. No matter what Canon or Nikon model you use, both have their strength, but none of them has real weakness. Some things might not be ideal, but as long as you are aware of the problem you can work around them.
And I also think like with cars, that the personal taste plays a big role into which camera brand you prefer.
 
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docsmith

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macfly said:
Canon need to keep at least some focus on those of us who care about ultimate quality at the top end, though I did learn today they haven't even been selling the Mklll for a year because the 5D has wiped out its sales completely!
Macfly,
Do you know of somewhere on the web that posts unit sales of dSLRs? I've always been curious.

Also, awhile ago you said you were going to post a side by side comparison of the 1Ds MkIII and the D3s. I was wondering if you had done so?

Ultimately, I am one of the "leap frog" theorists and note that the 1Ds III was introduced in 2007, the D3s in 2009 and expect a new canon "flagship" to leap frog the D3s for a year or two.
Thanks.
 
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Admin US West

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docsmith said:
Do you know of somewhere on the web that posts unit sales of dSLRs? I've always been curious.

No one publishes accurate sales by model of DSLR's, those sites out there merely get a small amount of data and extrapolate it, which can be extremely inaccurate.

Amazon sells a large number of cameras, and they have a sort of rolling best sellers list, which gives you a idea of what is popular, but, since i don't know exactly how it is computed, take it with a grain of salt. For example, the D7000 is listed high on the list, so they must be counting pre-orders as sales, because they are and have been out of stock or short on stock.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/photo/3017941
 
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What's not to like about the 7D?

The 5D2 has unmatched IQ at its price and resolution point.

the 550D and 60D give you 7D IQ in small, light, cheap bodies.

What more do you want?

I agree, some features could be improved, but the lineup is looking pretty strong to me. Can't wait to see what's next in for the 5D and 7D line.

Ubi said:
Hi, I'm a long time follower of this site and I want to use it to express my disappointment to Canon about their current range of DSLRs.

I've been using exclusively Canon digital SLRs for the past ten years and have a collection of L glass to use with my 5D. Recently I've been given some Nikon kit to play with by my college and I believe the D700 and D3s blow away anything that Canon has in the market place. Add to that Canon's absence from the mirrorless and pellicle markets and I wonder what's going on, or not, at big red. Getting rid of a mirror on a trapeze flapping about is a significant and logical development but Canon seems stuck in the past.

I'm not alone in my group in saying that if we don't hear of developments from Canon in new markets soon we're going to move to a combination of Nikon and Panasonic and hang the expense. If we're forced to do that it will take massive technological innovation to persuade us to sell up again and come back to Canon.
 
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peejay

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it aint the gear...

I'm still shooting an original 5D professionally for some decent clients. It gets the job done. I made the move from an RZ Portra and Provia system about 6 years ago, which I thought I'd never do. When the 5d came along I bought it to play with, I was that impressed by it that I'm still using it today. It's travelled the world on jobs with me and has never let me down. Should I upgrade? maybe. For tax reasons, yes. Because it's inferior? no.

Of corse when I look at 100% crops online of various cameras I can see that I can get better technical results. Will it REALLY improve my photography though? Will it improve my ability to capture time? to perceive? to feel? No it won't.

The thing is when you find something that 'gets the job done', and very well might I add, you can get out and shoot and THAT is when your photography really improves.

Your photography will never improve if you don't get out there and shoot, and even a lowly old original 5D will help you with that.
 
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Re: it aint the gear...

peejay said:
I made the move from an RZ Portra and Provia system about 6 years ago, which I thought I'd never do. When the 5d came along I bought it to play with, I was that impressed by it that I'm still using it today.

How do you find the 5D as compared with the rz system? I have an rz system I can't justify keeping, but it's hard to get rid of. I just like the feel of it.

I just upgraded from a rebel xt to a t2i. I wish I could say the image quality and finder are significantly better, but they're not. Higher ISOs and live view are nice, however.
 
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Admin US West

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Re: it aint the gear...

Policar said:
peejay said:
I made the move from an RZ Portra and Provia system about 6 years ago, which I thought I'd never do. When the 5d came along I bought it to play with, I was that impressed by it that I'm still using it today.

How do you find the 5D as compared with the rz system? I have an rz system I can't justify keeping, but it's hard to get rid of. I just like the feel of it.

I just upgraded from a rebel xt to a t2i. I wish I could say the image quality and finder are significantly better, but they're not. Higher ISOs and live view are nice, however.

Give it more time and practice. The higher MP sensor requires more care with such things as vibration and shutter speed to get the most out of it. I'd double the shutter speed over what you use on the XT if you want pixel sharp images.
 
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peejay

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Re: it aint the gear...

I was overwhelmingly surprised by the 5D. It revolutionized my shooting. For the past decade I was tripod bound with the RZ, which I downsized from a behemoth Fuji GX680! Yes it has it's limitations, and in some areas it can't compete with the RZ and film but really those differences are overshadowed by what shooting digitally bought to my my work.

Most of my work is editorial and printed no bigger than double page. Double page doesn't quite compete but it still looks good. Single page is marvelous. It works just fine and I've never in 6 or so years had a complaint.

I miss the result of film. But I don't miss the time it takes, the trips to the Lab, the waiting, returning bad scans, the countless hours of spotting dust...

As for sharpness, Im often adding .5 pixel gaussian blur to the 5D, so really, I don't need any more. I can understand if it is your job to accurately render reality that you'd want the sharpest possible tool, but for me that isn't a consideration. And is there really that much a difference in a real world print at 10x8, 11x14 between the sharpest and what I have? No I doubt it.

While there's a good chance I wont use the RZ again, I wouldn't sell it. That camera and I went places! So now it sits in it's case like time forgot it.





Policar said:
peejay said:
I made the move from an RZ Portra and Provia system about 6 years ago, which I thought I'd never do. When the 5d came along I bought it to play with, I was that impressed by it that I'm still using it today.

How do you find the 5D as compared with the rz system? I have an rz system I can't justify keeping, but it's hard to get rid of. I just like the feel of it.

I just upgraded from a rebel xt to a t2i. I wish I could say the image quality and finder are significantly better, but they're not. Higher ISOs and live view are nice, however.
 
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revup67

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zsolex said:
The D300s colors are closer to the reality, the Canon is a little bit reddish.
Zs

Try using Custom White Balance and never rely on the camera's built in presets for AWB (especially indoor light). Use a WhiBal card (or similar) to achieve accurate color which any decent camera should offer the option of Custom WB. You should be shooting in RAW also vs. JPG which pre-bake's the settings and much more difficult to manipulate. In RAW you will have full control over your entire image. You can convert to JPG after proper tweaking in DPP if you like. JPG's are included in each RAW image by the way.

Revup67
 
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Admin US West

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revup67 said:
zsolex said:
The D300s colors are closer to the reality, the Canon is a little bit reddish.
Zs

Try using Custom White Balance and never rely on the camera's built in presets for AWB (especially indoor light). Use a WhiBal card (or similar) to achieve accurate color which any decent camera should offer the option of Custom WB. You should be shooting in RAW also vs. JPG which pre-bake's the settings and much more difficult to manipulate. In RAW you will have full control over your entire image. You can convert to JPG after proper tweaking in DPP if you like. JPG's are included in each RAW image by the way.

Revup67

Digital sensors only detect black and white. The color is guessed at by the jpeg in camera processor or the raw converter, and can be set to pretty much any color you want. I am not much concerned by the color rendering of a camera, I have lightroom set to render color the way I like it as images import.

Every person perceives color differently, and has their preferences. Thats fine and as it should be. Thats why I don't place much stock in the gushing descriptions of how a particular lens renders better color. Its all in the perception of the photographer.
 
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Re: it aint the gear...

peejay said:
I was overwhelmingly surprised by the 5D. It revolutionized my shooting. For the past decade I was tripod bound with the RZ, which I downsized from a behemoth Fuji GX680!

peejay said:
I was overwhelmingly surprised by the 5D. It revolutionized my shooting. For the past decade I was tripod bound with the RZ, which I downsized from a behemoth Fuji GX680!

Thanks for the feedback. That's what I've heard from many who've made the switch. I've always kind of secretly wanted a GX680. I love perspective correction and waist level finders, but it's kind of a silly camera to use at this point when good t/s lenses and liveview exist for digital. If I weren't in it for the video, I would have gone 5D over t2i any day.

I'll improve my technique with the t2i but I think it's my lenses that aren't up to the task. You need a damned good lens to be diffraction-limited by f5.6 or f8 (after which shutter speeds and diffraction spoil resolution). That said, I can't believe how decent the EF-S zooms are for the price. The current kit lens is a real step up from the old ones. It may be easy to be disappointed in Canon's high-end, but their low end offerings are competitive.
 
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unruled

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I hear so many people griping about AF in the 5d mkii... can anyone elaborate on that? is it the tracking that is bad? what about single shot AF?

I've had a 350d and now a 40d and I've never been dissapointed really. Even in near pitch black, the AF is fine to me. If I'm doing night landscapes it will often fail to AF -- but then again, those really are times to use manual focus anyway.

also: people who talk about nikons AF being better --- yes, they tend to have way more AF points. But for those of us who use only the center point 90% of the time... does that matter?

Also, note to those saying nikon has leapfrogged canon right now: just keep in mind, it all depends what you are talking about. For video and megapixels, canon is clearly ahead.

Not to mention, as nikon ups its megapixel count (which it will), its gonna start losing that edge in noise performance.
 
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