rs said:
Yep, you are right. I sometimes switch the terms protanopia and protanomalous - like when I pasted it today. I'll be more careful next time. I'm a trichromat. I can discern the brighter reds better than the darker reds.
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Do we all See Color the Same?
- Thread starter Mt Spokane Photography
- Start date
Yep, you are right. I sometimes switch the terms protanopia and protanomalous - like when I pasted it today. I'll be more careful next time. I'm a trichromat. I can discern the brighter reds better than the darker reds.
I've known since shooting colour transparency that my right eye sees as if it has an 81A warming filter compared to the left. Weird.
81A filters have been predominantly obsolete for most of this century, but for those born recently; 81A explained:
http://www.hoyafilter.com/hoya/products/coloredfilters/81a/
http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/colour3.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wratten_number
-pw
81A filters have been predominantly obsolete for most of this century, but for those born recently; 81A explained:
http://www.hoyafilter.com/hoya/products/coloredfilters/81a/
http://www.cokin.co.uk/pages/colour3.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wratten_number
-pw
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Of course we all see color different. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks dark Red on a black(or dark grey) background is evil. I have know for a long time that I see blues much better than reds(ambers). I hate those amber streetlights. Cannot see anything under them at night there is just no contrast.
The real metaphysical question is that is the blue I perceive the blue you perceive. Or is my blue your green.
The real metaphysical question is that is the blue I perceive the blue you perceive. Or is my blue your green.
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I decided that I'd open some of my images in lightroom and edit a copy with colors to my taste. Then, later, after the second surgery, I could compare. First, I looked at selected images with my slightly warmer color left eye, and then the one with the new lens (right eye). they looked exactly the same. reds, blues, greens, even whites.
So, I must be seeing the out of gamut (of my SRGB Monitor) reds and blues which make whites appear bluer. Eventually, I did find one image where the purple appeared more saturated, but out of many dozens, that was the only one, and I could not find it again to post here later.
Also, I think my brain is already integrating the colors as the difference is not as much as it was yesterday.
So, I must be seeing the out of gamut (of my SRGB Monitor) reds and blues which make whites appear bluer. Eventually, I did find one image where the purple appeared more saturated, but out of many dozens, that was the only one, and I could not find it again to post here later.
Also, I think my brain is already integrating the colors as the difference is not as much as it was yesterday.
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dilbert said:
Yes, its one of those philosophical things that we could argue over forever, it just surprised me to be seeing different colors in each eye and started my wondering about the physics of the situation, all the while knowing that I'd adjust to it after a few days.
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retroreflection said:
Yeah I remember each time I got a new set of lenses I was like oh wow even ultra far stuff is actually supposed to be 100% utterly crisp, things don't naturally blur out with distance like some haze effect on contrast. Somehow each time I'd forget, it would just slowly happen and you'd adjust along the way and forget and then it'd be like wow. Yeah I can recognize everyone from a long distance. Tree branches hundreds of yards away are 100% crisp, anything to any distance is as sharp as anything a couple feet away.
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tcmatthews said:
Yeah that's the really weird one. I've often wondered is my perception of what red is like what someone else's is like for green and someone else's for blue or like something indescribably different?
Now the fact that most people, who are not color blind, tend to be wowed by say fall foliage and often describe similar 'feels' to colors and such makes me think that perhaps we do tend to perceive colors, most of us, in relatively the same way. But who knows. Maybe it's the brain that was just programmed to be awed by certain reported wavelengths and rations and color patterns even if the mind is seeing them in different ways, but I suppose more likely not too much.
Of course it's pretty bizarre to think about color or any senses. How do you explain what red or green are to someone 100% color blind? What sweet sugar tastes like to someone with 100% no taste. etc.? Where do the interpretations in the mind come from that you are perceiving of red and see it in a certain way. Nothing in physics says red has any perceptual look to it. It's not just like some robot that has receptors and captures frequencies and reads like 255,30,0 without like actually seeing seeing the color and perceiving it.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Interesting so yeah it's really giving you a true extend look into the UV side of things and only things that send out photos of that sort have the big difference in look.
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My eyes see colour differently to each other, does anyone else notice that? Closing one then the other, one sees cooler colours, the other warmer.
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scyrene said:
Yes, that is why I started the thread, after lens replacement, one eye sees blues and reds while the other has warm tones. Next week, I'll have the lens in my other eye replaced. Then they should both be seeing the same color again.
Its certainly possible without replacing the lens, the color sensors in one eye might be working differently. Some colors may be weaker in one eye.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Good luck, hope all goes well and you end up with a matched pair of eyes.
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scyrene said:
Yeah, one thing to watch out for though is if have a light source on one side of the room only or that is different than one on the other, even just a window on one side, it seems that it can slightly change the color balance of one eye compared to the other for some time which can make it more extreme.
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dilbert said:
Part 1 of the article seems a little bit silly to me in some ways. "These cultures have largely independent histories, yet they somehow gravitate towards the same choices for how to slice up the visual cake." and about what miracle makes people split things up in this way and how can a computer predict it, it's insane, and blah blah blah about culture.
Come on it's simply biology with a touch of physics. The average person has THREE relatively independent types of cones which are used to build up color vision and everything else trivially and instantly follows.
I'm super surprised that the blogger has a Phd in physics, he was writing more like a social scientist for part 1 at times.
I don't know that he was technically wrong in that blog piece but the way he made certain things sound shocking and conflated them so closely with perhaps surprising things about the slowness of linguistic history (and yet it is presented almost like the speed of it is surprising) give the whole blog a somewhat misleading feel in my mind. And it makes some stuff that isn't 1+1=2 seem exactly like the stuff that basically is no more remarkable than 1+1=2.
One thing I note is that not too many foods are blue.
And that article where they reference about how maybe people back in the times of Greeks were only able to visualize a few colors and that they saw white sheep as intense purple, using those terms in the sense a typical person would today, and that their mind could not tell a sheep from a purple petunia and that they literally saw them look at the exact same color by our standards and whatnot was just a bunch of gobblegook pseudo-science being passed off as actual science.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Gosh, sorry. I did read the whole thread, but must have forgotten the beginning when I got to the end!
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We do not all see color the same.
I found this article fascinating:
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2006/09/13/Some-women-may-see-100-million-colors-thanks-to-their-genes/stories/200609130255
There's a hidden benefit to color blindness. The mothers of males who are color blind can see more colors than most people. They are tetrachromats, with four different types of cones in their eyes, rather than three.
The reason their sons may be color blind is they inherit genes for cones that are too close together in the wavelengths they detect.
Only women can have this super color vision, because you need two X chromosomes to have it.
I found this article fascinating:
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2006/09/13/Some-women-may-see-100-million-colors-thanks-to-their-genes/stories/200609130255
There's a hidden benefit to color blindness. The mothers of males who are color blind can see more colors than most people. They are tetrachromats, with four different types of cones in their eyes, rather than three.
The reason their sons may be color blind is they inherit genes for cones that are too close together in the wavelengths they detect.
Only women can have this super color vision, because you need two X chromosomes to have it.
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chauncey said:
Took the X-Rite test 2-3 times some years ago (with some months in between each try) - got 100% correct each time
8)I'm 53 and I've had cataract surgery on both eyes. It was like being reborn, an incredible difference in sharpness! But the one thing that I remember most clearly is that reds became much more intense and also a bit varmer (much easier to see stoplights now
).
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drmikeinpdx
Celebrating 20 years of model photography!
Cataracts
Have I mentioned that I'm a (recently retired) Optometrist? I've worked with thousands of patients before and after cataract surgery.
One factor to keep in mind is that the natural lens doesn't just get hazy as it ages, it also changes color. I call that color "tobacco brown" which reminds me of some old gradient filters I once had.
The majority of patients do report a color shift after cataract surgery, especially after the first eye and before they have the second eye done. The most common comment is that painted walls they assumed to be some kind of off-white now appear as bluish-white.
Getting back to the other aspect of cataract development.... the natural lens (aka: The Crystalline Lens) can simply develop a uniform haze, but usually there are other opacities that develop as well. Depending on what part of the lens they are located in, they can affect the vision in different ways under different lighting conditions. Every person is different!
Another fun topic is the type of artificial lens (IOL) that is placed in the eye. These have evolved a lot over the last 40 years. The most popular ones now are designed to correct some of the optical aberrations of the eye. I think of them as "L" lenses.
Unfortunately, these lenses do not have the flexibility of the pre-age-40 natural lens that allows young people to focus up close without glasses (accomodation). The newest generation of IOLs are trying to restore some kind of accomodative ability. Reports are mixed so far on how effective they are.
Did I get a bit off topic here? LOL
Have I mentioned that I'm a (recently retired) Optometrist? I've worked with thousands of patients before and after cataract surgery.
One factor to keep in mind is that the natural lens doesn't just get hazy as it ages, it also changes color. I call that color "tobacco brown" which reminds me of some old gradient filters I once had.
The majority of patients do report a color shift after cataract surgery, especially after the first eye and before they have the second eye done. The most common comment is that painted walls they assumed to be some kind of off-white now appear as bluish-white.
Getting back to the other aspect of cataract development.... the natural lens (aka: The Crystalline Lens) can simply develop a uniform haze, but usually there are other opacities that develop as well. Depending on what part of the lens they are located in, they can affect the vision in different ways under different lighting conditions. Every person is different!
Another fun topic is the type of artificial lens (IOL) that is placed in the eye. These have evolved a lot over the last 40 years. The most popular ones now are designed to correct some of the optical aberrations of the eye. I think of them as "L" lenses.
Unfortunately, these lenses do not have the flexibility of the pre-age-40 natural lens that allows young people to focus up close without glasses (accomodation). The newest generation of IOLs are trying to restore some kind of accomodative ability. Reports are mixed so far on how effective they are.
Did I get a bit off topic here? LOL
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Re: Cataracts
You are "Right On" in your comments about the effects as far as my situation. I can see the "Tobacco" color now that one eye has been done. I did a lot of reading about the process and risks including some more doctor oriented papers, but none mentioned the color shift, or I did not pick up on it. After asking my Dr about it, its a ordinary outcome.
My astigmatism in my right eye was below the level at which they recommend corrective Toric lenses, but when I had my eyes checked last week, I asked to see the before and after with astigmatism correction in and out. To me, the difference for close up vision was huge, from blurry to sharp and clear. My left eye has more and falls into the marginal status. The Surgeon makes the incision in the cornea when he can, in such a way as to reduce astigmatism. It was reduced to half in my right eye, but it still is very significant as far as close vision without correction. They do a topology test, since its not as simple as one might think, but say I really don't need the Toric lens. Since it runs the price of a "L" lens, if its not needed, I plan to pass. I will always be wearing glasses in any event.
drmikeinpdx said:Have I mentioned that I'm a (recently retired) Optometrist? I've worked with thousands of patients before and after cataract surgery.
One factor to keep in mind is that the natural lens doesn't just get hazy as it ages, it also changes color. I call that color "tobacco brown" which reminds me of some old gradient filters I once had.
The majority of patients do report a color shift after cataract surgery, especially after the first eye and before they have the second eye done. The most common comment is that painted walls they assumed to be some kind of off-white now appear as bluish-white.
Getting back to the other aspect of cataract development.... the natural lens (aka: The Crystalline Lens) can simply develop a uniform haze, but usually there are other opacities that develop as well. Depending on what part of the lens they are located in, they can affect the vision in different ways under different lighting conditions. Every person is different!
Another fun topic is the type of artificial lens (IOL) that is placed in the eye. These have evolved a lot over the last 40 years. The most popular ones now are designed to correct some of the optical aberrations of the eye. I think of them as "L" lenses.
Unfortunately, these lenses do not have the flexibility of the pre-age-40 natural lens that allows young people to focus up close without glasses (accomodation). The newest generation of IOLs are trying to restore some kind of accomodative ability. Reports are mixed so far on how effective they are.
Did I get a bit off topic here? LOL
You are "Right On" in your comments about the effects as far as my situation. I can see the "Tobacco" color now that one eye has been done. I did a lot of reading about the process and risks including some more doctor oriented papers, but none mentioned the color shift, or I did not pick up on it. After asking my Dr about it, its a ordinary outcome.
My astigmatism in my right eye was below the level at which they recommend corrective Toric lenses, but when I had my eyes checked last week, I asked to see the before and after with astigmatism correction in and out. To me, the difference for close up vision was huge, from blurry to sharp and clear. My left eye has more and falls into the marginal status. The Surgeon makes the incision in the cornea when he can, in such a way as to reduce astigmatism. It was reduced to half in my right eye, but it still is very significant as far as close vision without correction. They do a topology test, since its not as simple as one might think, but say I really don't need the Toric lens. Since it runs the price of a "L" lens, if its not needed, I plan to pass. I will always be wearing glasses in any event.
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