DPReview Interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon USA

[RobertG.]

I'm disappointed. It all sounds like this new sensor is a full frame version of the 70D / 7D II sensor. Same DR as my 5D II but even slightly worse low ISO noise. All for the sake of 50 MP
Let's hope for the 5D IV. But first I will wait for an updated Sony A7R for my landscape shots. The Pentax 645Z is too bulky, unfortunately too expensive and lacks the great TS-E lenses...

 

[brad-man]

Extra DR is great, but not a life and death matter worthy of the inferiority complex many people seem to have over it. It's just one of many things that go into making a great photo. Yes, it would have been great if Canon could have improved it, but they didn't.

For some people, having more exposure latitude does make a big difference, but ETTR, HDR, luminosity and other techniques aren't hard to use when needed. It's not like the Sony/Nikon/Pentax crowd doesn't use these.

In the end, it's your money - buy what you need. If that's DR, small cameras, in-body stabilization, etc. there are plenty of choices. Personally, I'm excited by 50MP and an 11-24 f/4.

+1

I'm a little disappointed that Canon did not improve DR here, but I'm not going to judge a camera before its actually available or been tested. I probably would not buy one of these bodies anyway, with or without DR improvement.

We can all vote with our credit cards. If these cameras don't meet your personal needs pass on them and buy Nikon/Sony if you are so inclined.

All true. But I'd like to see some examples of some landscape shots with the EF 11-24 paired with the D810. Should be quite the visual orgasm

In normal conditions, the visual orgasm will be better with this new 5D model. But you are right in certain cases; if the shooting conditions are challenging with a large variety in amount of light across the scene, and you can only take one shot due to your subject matter, then the D810 should produce the superior result.

Have to disagree. I think the only time the new 5Ds will outperform the D810 is in situations where lighting can be controlled (studio, runway, pretty much any time indoors). Outside in natural light where DR really comes into play the 810 will shine. I look forward to seeing the performance of Sony's new 50MP sensor. I'm also getting a little nervous about the sensor in the "upcoming" 5DlV...

 

[unfocused]

Why?? This camera was not a speed or video demon so why the heck not go to Sony for the sensor on it? You didn't even give it DPAF, so what possible reason for the Canon sensor?

The best reason of all – profit. Of course, I mean best from their perspective...but you don't really think Canon cares about your perspective, do you? :

Actually, Canon cares very much about their customers' perspective in the aggregate. But, like any well-run business, they aren't that concerned about individual perspectives which are notoriously unreliable and idiosyncratic.

I appreciate that they are willing to develop a high end camera for what is clearly a niche market. Said it before, and will say it again: if you own a 5DIII (me), 6D or a 1DX, and it meets your needs, this is not the camera you are looking for.

Listen to what Canon is saying about this camera: this is for people who want or need high resolution.

And please, lets get real. Everything comes at a price. Some of the people on this site are only embarrassing themselves with all this slavish devotion to Sony sensor technology.

 

[Loswr]

Have to disagree. I think the only time the new 5Ds will outperform the D810 is in situations where lighting can be controlled (studio, runway, pretty much any time indoors). Outside in natural light where DR really comes into play the 810 will shine.

Exactly. Because we all know the D810 outperforms the 5DIII in any sort of natural light. : : :

 

[Eldar]

Tremendous resolution! No improvements in DR, no improvements on noise, no support for high precision manual focus, due to fixed focusing screen (they put it on the 6D and 7DII, but not on their flagships ), exposure metering is not following AF, no illuminated AF confirmation ... There are some more, but these were on top of my wish list. I got one out of six. :

My problem is that I do not want to buy a Nikon and I can´t stand the ergonomics of the A7r. I can go for the Pentax 645z, but that means two sets of lenses and two different bodies, with different user interfaces etc. etc. I carry enough as it is.

As I said this morning, this is a BIG disappointment ...

 

[Alejandro]

You keep asking for more dinamic range when it clearly shows that the 5D3 can match the D800 at high iso (*).

*http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/dxomark_sensor_for_benchmarking_cameras2.shtml


You also ask 4k video when most of us doesn't even use more than 1080p screens and can't afford them.

 

[Eldar]

You keep asking for more dinamic range when it clearly shows that the 5D3 can match the D800 at high iso (*).

*http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/dxomark_sensor_for_benchmarking_cameras2.shtml


You also ask 4k video when most of us doesn't even use more than 1080p screens and can't afford them.

I don´t believe that is correct. Almost everyone knew we would get a low-ISO camera this time, so High ISO is not an issue. A lot of us has also said that they could take away the video functionality all together, since we´re only interested in a stills camera.

 

[Lee Jay]

I'll gladly give up a stop or two of base ISO DR to get half to one stop of high ISO DR, where I really need it.

 

[Eldar]

I'll gladly give up a stop or two of base ISO DR to get half to one stop of high ISO DR, where I really need it.

Sure, but that is a different camera and you may hope it´s called 5DIV or 1DX2

 

[Lee Jay]

I'll gladly give up a stop or two of base ISO DR to get half to one stop of high ISO DR, where I really need it.

Sure, but that is a different camera and you may hope it´s called 5DIV or 1DX2

That goes for any camera.

 

[Alejandro]

This is what nikon users/fanboys see:

(Green screen? Oil issues? Green skin tones? Noise at high iso? Flare cut in half? They don't know anything about it)

(And yes, i did heard about the lcd light leak in the 5d3 at extremely low light conditions).

 

[zlatko]

I'll gladly give up a stop or two of base ISO DR to get half to one stop of high ISO DR, where I really need it.

Interesting that the D800 offers *worse* DR at high ISO than the 5D3. So which is better just depends on what one shoots.

 

[zlatko]

NO improvement in DR, over the 5d3?

That is extremely disappointing... :'(

Not disappointing for me. The 5D3 is great.

 

[Gino]

Tremendous resolution! No improvements in DR, no improvements on noise, no support for high precision manual focus, due to fixed focusing screen (they put it on the 6D and 7DII, but not on their flagships ), exposure metering is not following AF, no illuminated AF confirmation ... There are some more, but these were on top of my wish list. I got one out of six. :

My problem is that I do not want to buy a Nikon and I can´t stand the ergonomics of the A7r. I can go for the Pentax 645z, but that means two sets of lenses and two different bodies, with different user interfaces etc. etc. I carry enough as it is.

As I said this morning, this is a BIG disappointment ...

I agree with your comments....I had big hopes that we would see bigger improvements with this camera.

 

[AtSea]

I guess that settles it then, as to whether or not to upgrade from the 5D III. The answer for me being a clearcut no. Simply don't print large enough (yet) to benefit from it.

 

[Lee Jay]

The data I plotted was Sensorgen data derived from DxO. By the way, I've found that there are many areas on DxO data that is self-contradictory, so I generally tend not to believe any of it anymore, especially their "photographic DR" because their normalization approach is questionable at best.

 

[Loswr]

If you mean D55 with "natural light" - so yes the D810 outperform 5dmk3 both in color depth and resolution + color resolution, and DR at base iso, the new 5ds are tuned more against D55 with steeper color filter as in Nikon

Yet another person who doesn't grasp that a sensor isn't the same as a camera system. Actually, I don't think you're another person at all, just the same person who's never been able to grasp that simple concept, and instead repeatedly demonstrated that lack of comprehension with repetitive examples involving awnings, barbecues and sheds.

 

[zlatko]

The data I plotted was Sensorgen data derived from DxO. By the way, I've found that there are many areas on DxO data that is self-contradictory, so I generally tend not to believe any of it anymore, especially their "photographic DR" because their normalization approach is questionable at best.

Their ratings have some mysteries. At some point, DxO rated the $499 EF 100/2 USM as their highest scoring lens made by Canon. It's currently the 2nd highest, according to DxO. It's a fine lens, but that rating doesn't accord with my experience. Anyone want to confirm that the $499 EF 100/2 USM was the BEST lens that Canon made, deserving of the HIGHEST score? Currently that crown is worn by the EF 35/2 IS, with the 100/2 coming in second place, ahead of every other lens that Canon makes.

 

[Lee Jay]

The data I plotted was Sensorgen data derived from DxO. By the way, I've found that there are many areas on DxO data that is self-contradictory, so I generally tend not to believe any of it anymore, especially their "photographic DR" because their normalization approach is questionable at best.

Their ratings have some mysteries. At some point, DxO rated the $499 EF 100/2 USM as their highest scoring lens made by Canon. It's currently the 2nd highest, according to DxO. It's a fine lens, but that rating doesn't accord with my experience. Anyone want to confirm that the $499 EF 100/2 USM was the BEST lens that Canon made, deserving of the HIGHEST score? Currently that crown is worn by the EF 35/2 IS, with the 100/2 coming in second place, ahead of every other lens that Canon makes.

Their lens tests are total crap. They declared the 70-200/2.8L IS II no better than the I, and worse in resolving power.

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-200mm-f-2.8L-IS-II-USM-measurements-and-review

By the way, my 100/2 was outstanding. Every non-L prime should be like the 100/2.

 

[sagittariansrock]

I would say Chuck Westfall probably should've prepared better if he really wanted to present the 5Ds in a good light. As far as I can see it, it was not a good idea to compare the dynamic range of the 5Ds with the 5D Mark III, right after the DP Review guy says there has been concerns about that (DR of 5D III). He is just feeding the frenzy here. Similarly, comparing the noise capability of the 5Ds with the 7D II isn't really complementary,the latter being a crop sensor camera. I think on these notes Chuck Westfall could have just said that the 5Ds has competitive dynamic range and noise capability, and let people figure it out for themselves rather than surmising based on his comparisons.
The problem is, the camera raises too many questions to be slam dunk, the same way 6D did. It was a great camera that received negative PR due to missing some key features.
Chuck Westfall was clearly unprepared; when he was asked who would buy 5D Mark III versus a 5Ds,instead of pointing out the target audience for the newer camera and highlighting its strengths, he went on to say that people looking for lowlight performance, high ISO capability and advanced video tools would be looking for 5D Mark III, pointing out the 5Ds' shortcomings. Very odd.