DPReview: Review of the Canon EOS R5

[Deleted member 384473]

Merely making an observation. It is what it is.

Bert, what are you observing?

 

[dtaylor]

How do you know that Canon "forgot to heatsink the DIGIC chip?" It's absurd to think that you can make that judgement.

If the sensor was overheating airflow over the sensor would quickly bring it back down to usable temps. Fans on the sensor after a HQ take do not work, so it's not the sensor.

If it was the battery, card, or card writer interface then swapping those out would immediately restore some recording time. Swapping them out does nothing.

This basically leaves DIGIC as the point of thermal overload. If the DIGIC processor was properly heat piped to the body you would expect the body...or part of it...to be very hot to the touch after overheating. But people are reporting it's not. You would also expect airflow over the body or ice packs on the body to dramatically reduce cool down times, but they don't seem to. Another wrinkle is that in hot sunlight the R5's recording times don't change much while other cameras take a big hit. (Of course those cameras cool relatively quickly and can be used again while the R5 sits there.) This all points to DIGIC being thermally isolated from the body and the environment.

This product is everything that Canon said it would be. The outrage is phony outrage stoked by some Youtubers who may as well work for Sony.

Spare me the ad hominem attacks. Reviewers investigating this want to love this camera. There is so much to love. But it doesn't matter because the camera can't shed heat fast enough.

If you go back through my comments on this topic you'll find in the beginning I was on the other side. "Of course there are record limits...every fan-less hybrid has them...laws of physics...if you need 2 hour takes you need a dedicated cine camera with a fan...etc." I flipped when the data made it clear that the camera could not cool down and therefore would be unusable in typical hybrid scenarios, much less cinema productions. I also speculated, based on stills cutting into record times, that thermal issues would become apparent even while stills shooting, and those reports are starting to trickle in.

There's a problem. Either DIGIC doesn't have a proper heatsink/heat pipe, or it does but the materials are out of spec, or everything is fine there but the body is covered in Owens Corning R25.

 

[Bert63]

Criticism is a good thing, Bert. Remember that.

Criticism is fine. We slipped from criticism to echo-chamber whining days ago - especially considering only a tiny fraction of these cameras are in the hands of real people. Not paid ”influencers“ who whore themselves for clicks.

 

[scyrene]

I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor.

This is really useful to know, thanks! Great shots.

 

[reefroamer]

I agree. First Canon PR says R5 is a 5div equivalent. Should have left it at that.
No, they tout the 4k120, 8k30.

Prior to R5/A7siii release. The pana bois were about to trade in their system for one of these great autofocus video camera. Some pre-order the R5 thinking they'll have the chance to be the next Spielberg with 8k30 usage on a budget. Quality wedding video work, quality documentary work. Some people even bought RF glasses, in anticipation of the miracle video camera.
Then the overheating saga started. The 30mins recording limit is still there. Then the A7siii was announce. Boom, all hyped for video camera follow it.

The R5 was supposed to bring exCanon users back. It's not going to bring anyone back now. In fact it's an embarrassment for video realm.
Had Canon PR not tout its video capabilities to kingdom come, people will wait for a proper R1-pro with little fuss.
But now people want what PR hyped for months, in this tiny R5 body.

I am looking for where Canon hyped unlimited 8k “to kingdom come” for months and cannot find it. Other than touting the 8k capability, in context, to a relevant convention of broadcasters a few months back, I just don’t find any other official mentions of it by Canon until the announcement this month. And no, they didn’t mention time limitations caused by overheating. No company hypes their limitations. Had Canon ever promised unlimited 8k/4K120p, I would understand the “outrage.” Despite the “reliable” rumors reported on this site, Canon didn’t officially confirm much about the R5/6 until announcement this month. The rest was just guesses.

Now, there WAS enormous speculation, discussion and rumor-mongering on the Internet About R5 video specs, and great skepticism that such high-res modes could be unlimited with. If you bought into all the unofficial pre-announcement speculative hype, I understand your disappointment. But I just can’t see where Canon deserves to be trounced for bad PR/marketing. I was in corporate PR for years and these kinds of fires are no fun to put out. If it’s not the product for you, simply look elsewhere. Canon and everyone else that’s left someday, will all have unlimited high-res video features. But by then it won’t be important. We'll all have moved on to the next great thing to whine about.

 

[highdesertmesa]

A thread discussing a DPR review that reads like the comments section on DPR

 

[bhf3737]

BTW the best way to overcome the negative guerrilla marketing campaign against the R5 will be for content creators to put out some really compelling video made with it, esp. the 8K mode. That will have impact on the Youtube community.

Or even better to ask YouTube self-claimed influencers to show a piece of 8K work that they wanted to do it with R5 but they couldn't and they used a different hybrid sub $4K camera from another manufacturer and they could. That is a way to prove that R5 is not capable. We just need one and only one such example. Is it too much to ask?

 

[Jonathan Thill]

I'm pretty happy too. Have put it through some extra stills and video paces with all the controversy to make sure it is solid, and no show stoppers yet.

Have you tried the automatic in camera proxies to speed editing of the 8K? I don't even have fast enough cards yet to try. Hoping that works as well as described. I'm also curious about the Wifi transfer of data. I'm lazy and it would be cool to not pull cards in and out of a card reader all the time.

I have not, but remember reading that the R5 had this option and I need to mess with that. Thanks

I can run more 4K60 than I ever will need, and I was pleased with how long I got vs. the spec sheet after heating the camera in direct sun for over an hour. Cool down for me after thermal shutdown was only 20-30 mins in air conditioning with moderate airflow, so I think anything I may ever expect from it is covered. The 4K60 eats cards fast! 50GB in 30 mins. I'll probably use this rarely for more than several minutes at a time. 4K30 was a more reasonable 6.5GB and makes better sense for most longer shooting I would do.

Yeah these large bit rates are killer on storage, I do think Canon might have some room to play here and might/should be part of a strategy to extend record times.

The other night I did focus tests in the dark and it was about as fast as focusing in daylight; that is just fun. Where any previous model would have hunted forever and had to be manually focused, this was just effortless. For astrophotography, if I use a non-manual lens, I can now use autofocus to set the lens to infinity on a star instead of zooming in and manually focusing using live view. Focusing on foreground in the dark will perhaps no longer require a flashlight/headlamp. I can get handheld shots in the dark that are quite clean up to ISO12800.

I have not really pushed any low light yet, I did take some shots that I posted earlier at ISO 1600. I know ISO 1600 is nothing these days but for me after using a 7D for so long I am really gun shy of going over ISO 100 to the point I would rather skip the shot then try and push it. I know this is silly but it is hard habit to break out of.

My first EVF ever, and seeing what photos will actually look like with high quality display is pretty useful, although not a big fan of the non natural view for some applications. I may always keep a camera about with an optical viewfinder. They have come a long way though, I really didn't like the EVFs that were available just a few years ago, or the one in my Sony NXCAM. Hoping a big eyecup will become available soon.

The AF performance in all modes is pretty amazing and I like that the user doesn't need to do much, it just kind of works.

The IBIS feels almost at a GH5 level for a full frame. For stills or video its a huge improvement. I'm becoming confident I can leave the tripod in the car unless I'm doing truly long exposures now. I'm able to handhold my 24-105 F4L mk1 (the old one with the blah IS) zoomed at 105mm, at 1/8s and get mostly keepers that are 100% sharp. On the 5D4 I can only manage 1/100, so this is nearly 4 stops better.

The less I listen to all the noise, the more I am feeling pretty good with the R5. Hopefully I will not encounter anything unexpected, but I will continue to press it hard during the return window just as a precaution.

Yeah, I think all of us that got the Camera in the first batch need to do what we can to iron out the issues as well as help put out some of the "Flames" of misunderstood reports.

I look forward to the day we are all talking about what this Camera can do and not what it can't.

 

[Skux]

Looks like Canon finally made the stills-only camera that people were begging for.

 

[mppix]

No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.

I'd be fine with that if that means that the next hybrid camera shoots 16K timelapse

 

[dtaylor]

Or even better to ask YouTube self-claimed influencers to show a piece of 8K work that they wanted to do it with R5 but they couldn't and they used a different hybrid sub $4K camera from another manufacturer and they could. That is a way to prove that R5 is not capable. We just need one and only one such example. Is it too much to ask?

Armando Ferreira did a real 8k production with a real team and real actors. He could not shoot everything in 8k and ended up titling a follow up video "The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA!" because of the thermal issues. He is a professional, not a mere "self-claimed influencer."

There is a thermal issue.

 

[Kiton]

I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.

Nice!!

 

[bhf3737]

I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading.
[...]
It’s time to be honest and agree that Canon built up a lot of hype on the R5 for video. Usability is way more important.

Usability (similar to many other non-functions) does not have a definite objective meaning and a unique way of measurement. In product development, it is defined by an agreement between the producer and the targetted users. It seems that many users based on their understanding of usability for their workflow have found the R5 body and features usable and are happy with it.
But for some, it may not be usable due to their understanding and expectations. If R5 is not usable for someone, luckily, she/he has a choice to not purchase it. Simple.
Unfortunately some people hide behind the overloaded term "serious video user" and say that R5 is not for serious video work. True, Canon has a product-line for serious users and it is called Cinema line.
The YouTube hype attracts the "pretend serious video users" who want a Go-Pro style camera to set it and forget it for 2-3 hours and shoot 8K and be as cheep as possible. Neither R5 nor Cinema line of Canon is for this group. They do not have a choice either, because no other manufacturer offers what they want (8K format, sub $4K price, 2-3 hours continuous shooting) right now.

 

[navastronia]

With the R5, Canon has over-promised and under-delivered. This isn't exactly a crime against God, but simultaneously, it's upset people who wanted truly useful 8K and 4K HQ modes.

This is not a controversial thing to say, and Canon created this problem themselves. As others have pointed out, if they had marketed the camera as having an 8K "burst mode," etc, they would have avoided a lot of this, because the issue isn't about what the camera can do, it's about the gap between what consumers expect and what they get.

Average Joe Consumer doesn't read Canon telling them the R5 shoots 8K and assume this means "18 minutes, then a 2-hour cooldown," and Canon knows this as well as any of us.

Also: Would those who read this post and say, "but the R5 does what Canon said it would! Technically, it shoots 8K!" also be satisfied with a spouse who *technically* doesn't cheat, but still comes home with lipstick on their collar nightly?

 

[mppix]

Anybody expecting genuine unrestricted 8k from Canon in a sub $4,000 camera is an idiot.

Yes, but that is not what the "flames" are about. They are about 4K30HQ and 4K60 overheating and once it does it takes 2h to fully recover [in a camera that promised 8K30 and was preannounced and announced as top level stills AND video tool...]
People were (IMHO understandably) expecting a S1H and A7s3 competitor + that Canon produced a competitive hybrid body. It's not. This is what the 5Div was to its competition at the time - a top of the line stills camera that does some video.

 

[reef58]

You know, I actually agree that expectations were unrealistic and that overheating should’ve been expected especially considering past Mirrorless cameras pushing higher end specs at FF but I also think Canon added to these expectations to some degree. Doesn’t matter at this point, it is what it is. Only thing I can hope for to make RF worth it for my use case is a dedicated RF cine cam from Canon. I’d definitely pick up an R5 for stills to work alongside it.

Keep in the the "flagship" 1dx3 released this year cannot auto focus in modes the r5 can release just a few months later. Overall I think the r5 and r6 are good cameras, but I am holding out for the replacement for the m50, and the high mega pixel beast that is supposedly coming. I was able to get a loaner 85mm f1.2 from CPS and the 85mm RF lens is probably the sharpest lens I have have dealt with. It was amazi

That points back to the real problem: improper heat conduction away from the DIGIC X. No one can get it to cool down. Armando tried a freaking leaf blower. If the sensor was overheating airflow through the mount (lens off, shutter open) would cool it down in 1m. If there was a physical connection between the DIGIC chip and the body then fans and ice packs would work. People are setting ice packs on it and throwing it in refrigerators and it still takes forever to cool.

What was Canon trying to do? Save money on inert heatsink materials?

I think the issue is Canon is really being conservative with the thermal management to prolong the life of the electronics. Many have reported the camera didn't feel warm, but they had the shutdown. They may up the shutdown limit by a few degrees. Who knows?

 

[bhf3737]

Armando Ferreira did a real 8k production with a real team and real actors. He could not shoot everything in 8k and ended up titling a follow up video "The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA!" because of the thermal issues. He is a professional, not a mere "self-claimed influencer."

There is a thermal issue.

Yes, he did it with R5 and worked with the limitations and delivered. He and his team know how to deal with the limitations of their gear, being heat, disk capacity, battery life, lenses, network bandwidth, etc., and build their workflow considering those limitations. That is a positive example for using R5. Let someone show what they CANNOT do with R5 and CAN with other cameras.

 

[Deleted member 384473]

Yes, he did it with R5 and worked with the limitations and delivered. He and his team know how to deal with the limitations of their gear, being heat, disk capacity, battery life, lenses, network bandwidth, etc., and build their workflow considering those limitations. That is a positive example for using R5. Let someone show what they CANNOT do with R5 and CAN with other cameras.

I doubt many others would want to put up with that and it looked rather like a hassle and I believe they dropped down to 4kLQ, no? I don’t remember.

 

[davidhfe]

Well I do think it’s safe to assume canon was aware of the heat issue back in October from the patented adapter that would help dissipate heat.

Canon patents an awful lot of pretty bonkers stuff. Not a whole lot makes it into production, so I wouldn't read *too* much into the adaptor. All these manufacturers have had issues with thermals in these tiny bodies and are getting creative about how to work around it.

 

[dtaylor]

Yes, he did it with R5 and worked with the limitations and delivered. He and his team know how to deal with the limitations of their gear, being heat, disk capacity, battery life, lenses, network bandwidth, etc., and build their workflow considering those limitations. That is a positive example for using R5. Let someone show what they CANNOT do with R5 and CAN with other cameras.

It is not a positive example of using the R5 when his team had to drop to LQ 4k and he followed up with a video basically saying the R5 is unusable in HQ video modes due to thermal issues.