DPReview: Review of the Canon EOS R5

[unfocused]

Can anybody explain to me what was advertised? I need a proof not a wishful thinking. A video link or a line on the user's guide will be nice...

Canon's pre-release teasers placed heavy emphasis on the video capabilities of the camera. In fact, there were a lot of complaints on this forum from stills shooters because the pre-release marketing was so heavily weighted toward video.

 

[PhotoGenerous]

The trouble with the R5 you’re paying a large premium for those video features that aren’t reliable. I don’t mind the recording times as much as the glacial recovery from overheating annd even worse an hour of just stills shooting can render HQ video modes unusable as camera has already reached thermal limits. The body design is very poor in that it has woeful thermal conductivity properties and traps heat for up to 2 hours. They really do need to make a physical change rather than just rely on fw hacks. It’s a bit rich for people to now claim it’s not a video camera, when it was Canon that was pushing 8K as the headline act. Also the 4K line skipped video is poor quality and the H.265 codec I’ve heard is a nightmare to try and work with in editing. I’m sure fw will address some issues but the poor thermals are intrinsic to their body design and choice of materials. I really want to get the R5 but will dealy that purchase for at least 6 months and hope by Q1 next year soemthingnhas been done.

Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.

There is a premium, the early adopter premium, and not an 8k/video feature premium.

 

[HarryFilm]

Totally agree with the buying power stuff. Speak with your wallet for sure; forum posts are cheap. And again, Canon borked the PR here.

But, and this is an honest question, what competitor would you suggest people buy if they like the R5’s photo capabilities but are unhappy with the video?

The NEW Blackmagic Ursa 12k Camera is 79 megapixels still photo MONSTER having 60 fps BURST RATE and it is a SUPERB video camera with the right lenses! Just remember to shoot 12 bit RAW and buy some decent Cinema-style LUTs (Colour Lookup Tables) to turn those 60 fps burst rate 12k resolution video sequences into the BEST QUALITY 79 megapixel video frame grabs possible. It's 1/3rd to HALF the price of a Hasselblad or Phase One AND you also get a 12k resolution video camera to boot!

Wow! Blackmagic 12K camera makes stunning entrance (and the price is amazing too)

Move over 8K! The latest Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro offers stunning 12K video for cinematographers and filmmakers

www.digitalcameraworld.com

AWESOME!

 

[HarryFilm]

Entropy always increases, mass-energy is conserved, the speed of light in a vacuum is always 299,792,458 metres per second, and Canon is always doomed.

You must not have taken a physics class.

All kidding aside, I agree with your point.

Actually....there is recent evidence now that the speed of light is and was NOT always constant! and that Mass/Energy IS NOT always conserved!

the "Laws" of Physics CAN BE BENT with the right application of advanced technology!

V

 

[SteveC]

Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.

There is a premium, the early adopter premium, and not an 8k/video feature premium.

I sure wish we could finally lay that silly "I don't want to pay for video features I don't use" to rest once and for all, but it's like kudzu.

 

[bokehmon22]

Canon R5 seems like a great photography camera, but not practical for professional videographers who might use hybrid camera for both video and photography for long period of time (wedding, interview, etc).

I do mostly photography so I don't care about 8K, but I wish I don't have to pay the premium for 8K video specs.

Canon R6 is interesting but too low resolution since I do large print, it's missing top LCD, and lower resolution EVF. I'm keeping an eye out for Sony A7IV since the A7SIII come pretty close to being perfect camera for me except for the low resolution.
This is definitely a great time to be a photographer with so many choices. It's hard to go wrong.

 

[SteveC]

I do mostly photography so I don't care about 8K, but I wish I don't have to pay the premium for 8K video specs.

Geez, not five minutes ago I complained about this, and here it is again.

45MP, 12 fps...do you suppose the ability to do that might be a consequence of developing that video feature you don't want to have to pay for?

Were it not for the 8K video feature, this wouldn't be nearly as awesome a camera for stills as it already is. Yeah, you're paying for that, with the SAME money you're paying for the phenomenal stills capability.

 

[HarryFilm]

As usual, Harry...bulls**t.

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say

The speed of light may not be constant, a possibility that could have broad implications for fields of cosmology and even astronomy, say physicists.

www.livescience.com

---

 

[SteveC]

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say

The speed of light may not be constant, a possibility that could have broad implications for fields of cosmology and even astronomy, say physicists.

www.livescience.com

---

You realize they've been speculating about this for DECADES (if not centuries) and nothing has ever come of it? Can't guarantee it won't in the future, but it's blue-sky at this point and we can ignore it as a practical matter until shown otherwise.

 

[HarryFilm]

You realize they've been speculating about this for DECADES (if not centuries) and nothing has ever come of it? Can't guarantee it won't in the future, but it's blue-sky at this point and we can ignore it as a practical matter until shown otherwise.

AND THEN:

Energy Is Not Conserved

Energy Is Not Conserved

Energy Is Not Conserved

www.discovermagazine.com

---

 

[masterpix]

No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.

There is a big question why a stills camera needs to be also a good video camera. I always claimed that should one want a good video camera, one needs to buy a camara specialized in video. I undestand that there are a lot of "hybrid" people who wants both, but giving them 8K is not a real "hybrid" it is more trying to do "both at the same time", but the electronics of the two might not, as we see in the heat sink, meet very well (even sony with the new 7, "addmits" that making a video camera, is a huge compremizing over the stills). I, if buy the R5, will buy it for the 45MP sensor, the AF system, low light capabilities etc. but for stills only, I have little interest in video for this matter (and even I do videos, this won't be a video camera for the choice. there are enough dedicated 8K video cameras over there). Should they will make a 5D-5 with similar stills capabilities it would be even better for I like to SEE what is infront of me and not what the camera alrady processed from it.

All in all, I think that people critisizm comes from "what we want it to be" more than "what it really is". Take the 6D critics for example, it was "crusified" not to be the 5D when it was not meant to be.

 

[HarryFilm]

You realize they've been speculating about this for DECADES (if not centuries) and nothing has ever come of it? Can't guarantee it won't in the future, but it's blue-sky at this point and we can ignore it as a practical matter until shown otherwise.

Some of the more RECENT experiments SEEM to show that INDEED that the speed of light is NOT and WAS NOT constant.

Déjà vu is a neurological phenomenon, scientists claim

Scientists in the UK have even identified four cases of "chronic déjà vu."

bigthink.com

Even though this above article is from 2018, there more in the more recent issues of "Physics Today" that indicates that this has NOW been proven in actuality.

Of course, on a practical basis, YOU and I won't know the difference BUT it does lead open to actually useful technologies within communications, finite-scale measurement systems, computer operations, permanent memory storage where even SMALL effects/changes in the current speed of light is VERY USEFUL thing to have!

V

 

[Cat_Interceptor]

AND THEN:

Energy Is Not Conserved

Energy Is Not Conserved

Energy Is Not Conserved

www.discovermagazine.com

---

"There are two things that are infinite - the Universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first"

 

[Kit.]

It would vary with ambient temperatures and airflow rate but we're talking minutes.

How many minutes?

An exposed sensor is effectively a 2D piece with its flat surface exposed to air. The sensor is like a radiator in this respect and would respond very quickly to airflow.

It's not, because it's flat.

That's not a source of heat.

That's a heat accumulator, with limited capacity.

That would be a thermal design issue in a device like this, wouldn't it?

Not for a camera designed to take photos, handheld, in a wide range of environments.

Would you want to need to wear gloves to operate it in +15 degrees Celsius?

 

[degos]

Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.

That's part of the frustration of how Canon operates. Instead of working from requirements inwards, they decide what tier they're targeting and select à la carte features which can be accommodated at that price point.

I mean did any 5D4 pros really state, when surveyed, that 8K video clips were a requirement for its successor?

 

[Baron_Karza]

"Use an external fan to dissipate heat"

CANON themselves say to do this. But it seems that makes NO difference. Not even cold packs or placing it in a fridge helps.
I don't trust Canon anymore.

 

[Viggo]

It’s kind of hard finding still feature reviews of the R5. Seems like it goes like this; “great for stills the end, but here listen to me for 20 minutes talking about how it’s not the cinema camera canon didn’t made it to be.”

 

[Baron_Karza]

If people are being idiotic them calling them idiots is factually correct. The out of all context uproar this release has caused is idiotic, and while you might say "no one was expecting that" the limitations those specs alone place on that aspect of the camera are the ONLY criticisms of the camera. Everybody has praised the AF, the DR, the resolution, rolling shutter, image quality, iso performance etc etc etc, the only aspect people are ripping the entire package to pieces on is the 8k and other special video modes.

It's only your opinion, not a fact.
Fact is when someone is calling them names, it shows signs of being immature and easily angered.

Canon saying to use an external fan to reduce the internal heat on the R5 camera is deceptive and wrong and HUGE disservice to their customers.

You trying to silence people into not complaining about these issue is not going to get Canon back to being a trustworthy company that used to build only features that were reliable and predictable.

Putting 8K in a $4 camera designed to be a stills 1st camera is gimmick.
Putting 8K in a $4k video 1st camera would have been the correct thing to do.

 

[Stu_bert]

A few comments

1. The Atomos Ninja V can support 4k 120 at 4:2:2 with one Sony camera. Based on Wikipedia HDMI standards this would indicate it has HDMI 2.1. If it has 2.1 then it will support 8K modes (pending firmware and other possible limitations).
   
   
2. I can't see what HDMI the R5 uses. If it is 2.0 to 2.0b then it could do 4K120/8K at 4:2:0. I can't comment if that is sufficient for people or not (vs 4:2:2). Whether Atomos plan with Canon to support these higher modes (120fps, 8k), don't know.
   
   
3. Armando Ferreira also stated that many studios would use multiple cameras on a shoot, and for each take it would only be required for minutes. In this other use case he said it failed. Fair enough. Not sure that equates then to the headline. A single body, in a specific use case doesnt work for him. Enough such scenarios and he might conclude a single R5 doesnt work for him. He's also said (earlier video) he would shoot 8k for occasional shoots (like from drone).
   
   
4. The overheating on the R5 and R6 both seem to occur when the source bitrate (before compresssion) is around 12.6Gbps. I've used that based on the output rate which HDMI uses. I accept that it is an approximation and internally (pre compression) the R5/R6 may not be pulling quite that much data. Half the frame rate and the amount of data (approx) halves also. Hence the 30p and below are ok.
   
   
5. Over HDMI, the 4K60 doesnt overheat, but the 4k60 crop does. The crop mode samples from 5.1k or 4.8k, presume the 4k60 All-I doesnt. Assuming (big IF), that the 4K60 external needs little manipulation (HDMI is uncompressed), then does this not eliminate the issue on the sensor / IBIS etc. Sure they contribute heat, but they don't push it over the limit.
   
   
6. Whether it is sampling and sending over HDMI (uncompressed), or storing internally (compressed) this is where the additional work generates more heat and over a period of time, leads to the shutdown. I do not know for sure if that sampling is done in HW (assume it would be based on the rates), and the H265 encoding needs hw encoding support (they're not doing it in sw - I based that on PC encoding in SW). How much writing to the CFExpress / UHS II at higher bit rates raises the temperature I don't know. Whether you can use H264 but match the quality (perhaps at the expense of some storage), again not sure - but one would assume they looked at the H264/265 and concluded the H265 gave them the best results. Again, how much you can tweak the H265 encoding to require less Digic but maintain the quality will be one area Canon might look at.
   
   
7. Any stills manipulation on Raw / cRAW would presume to also be using Digic (noise reduction, cRAW compression, and hence why it also contributes to raising the internal temperature.

Ultimately, every design has some trade-off and individuals need to decide whether it works for them or not. Pick through all the noise, try and find the info that is relevant for you: chose to buy, chose to wait, chose to change brand, chose to rent and try, chose to buy but return. Your money, your choice. You can discuss it here if you want opinion, or you can conclude without discussion and go with that. As others have mentioned, be aware at what motivates whoever is supplying the information (that goes for all "news" on a global basis)... All that glitters is not gold as I remember from my school days, lol.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.

There is a premium, the early adopter premium, and not an 8k/video feature premium.

The original 5D in 2005 had no video or live view and was priced at $3200 USD which is about $4224 USD in 2020 dollars. I can't complain about the price of the R5 because its less expensive than the original 5D. I don't think I'm paying more for video because cost to manufacture is largely based on volume, and video sells more cameras.