Dxo tests canon/nikon/sony 500mm's

[jrista]

For every measurement, all generated with a body attached, the Canon lens comes out on top, in some cases by a significant margin. Yet, the Score is a tie. So...the score is fabricated, pulled from their nether orifices, etc.

Give it up Neuro.... Give it up jrista....

You are just jealous that my 50 F1.8 that I paid $100 for outscores your $10,000 lenses and try to justify it by attacking DXO. Everyone knows how impartial and accurate DXO scoring is just like how all birders would rather use a 50F1.8 than a 500 or 600F4.

Damn. If there was only a "for" after each of those "up"'s. ;P

The irony here is so thick you could swim in it, though! That a 50/1.8 outscores a Canon Great White is about the perfect testimony as to how overweighted and invalid transmission is on DXO's score, and how ludicrous the scores therefor are.

 

[garyknrd]

I always found there sensor scores pretty accurate. But this is??? These guys are smoking some pretty potent stuff. I shoot with a guy that has a Nikon 500 VR II and it is scary good, the VR is un real on that thing. But! He constantly comments on how sharp the pics from a 500 II are. Like every time we shoot together. I damn sure would not trade.
Another fellow I shoot with every once in a while has the Nikon 600. That thing is not even close to the new Canon 600 II IMO.

 

[Woody]

The Canon 500 mm lens mounted on a 22 MP FF sensor OUTRESOLVES the Nikon 500 mm lens mounted on a 36 MP FF sensor? And they are scored equally? Incredible

 

[mb66energy]

The Nikon 500mm rules @ f/32 in terms of actuance:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/1174/%28lens2%29/393/%28lens3%29/891/%28brand1%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28camera2%29/795/%28brand3%29/Sony/%28camera3%29/831

This might lead to a higher summed up score because DxO produces the score from data over the whole range. If this is NOT WEIGHTED with typical use scenarios ... this gives misleading scores while the measurements are correct AND helpful.

This might explain why Canons and Nikons 4/500 have the same scores - I would choose Canon's lens because it should deliver cleaner results @ f/4-f/8 - the typical f-stops I would use.

 

[Loswr]

The Nikon 500mm rules @ f/32 in terms of actuance:
This might lead to a higher summed up score because DxO produces the score from data over the whole range. If this is NOT WEIGHTED with typical use scenarios ... this gives misleading scores while the measurements are correct AND helpful.

This might explain why Canons and Nikons 4/500 have the same scores - I would choose Canon's lens because it should deliver cleaner results @ f/4-f/8 - the typical f-stops I would use.

I'd like to ask where DxOMark states the Score is summed over the whole range...because instead, I read: "DxOMark Score corresponds to an optimal focal length/aperture combination. The score corresponds to the quantity of information that can be captured by the camera. Each focal length/aperture combination provides a numerical value. The highest value is the DxOMark Score.". They're saying the score is based on the one best focal length/aperture combo. They indicate that right next to their Score, and for all three lenses that optimum is 500mm f/4.

Sorry, but I believe actuance at f/32 is irrelevant to the Scores, which are still BS...

 

[msm]

The Nikon 500mm rules @ f/32 in terms of actuance:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/1174/%28lens2%29/393/%28lens3%29/891/%28brand1%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28camera2%29/795/%28brand3%29/Sony/%28camera3%29/831

This might lead to a higher summed up score because DxO produces the score from data over the whole range. If this is NOT WEIGHTED with typical use scenarios ... this gives misleading scores while the measurements are correct AND helpful.

This might explain why Canons and Nikons 4/500 have the same scores - I would choose Canon's lens because it should deliver cleaner results @ f/4-f/8 - the typical f-stops I would use.

That is interesting considering the Nikon has a minimum aperture of f/22 ;D

 

[bdunbar79]

The Nikon 500mm rules @ f/32 in terms of actuance:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/1174/%28lens2%29/393/%28lens3%29/891/%28brand1%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28camera2%29/795/%28brand3%29/Sony/%28camera3%29/831

This might lead to a higher summed up score because DxO produces the score from data over the whole range. If this is NOT WEIGHTED with typical use scenarios ... this gives misleading scores while the measurements are correct AND helpful.

This might explain why Canons and Nikons 4/500 have the same scores - I would choose Canon's lens because it should deliver cleaner results @ f/4-f/8 - the typical f-stops I would use.

 

[Dylan777]

For every measurement, all generated with a body attached, the Canon lens comes out on top, in some cases by a significant margin. Yet, the Score is a tie. So...the score is fabricated, pulled from their nether orifices, etc.

Give it up Neuro.... Give it up jrista....

You are just jealous that my 50 F1.8 that I paid $100 for outscores your $10,000 lenses and try to justify it by attacking DXO. Everyone knows how impartial and accurate DXO scoring is just like how all birders would rather use a 50F1.8 than a 500 or 600F4.

LOL..... ;D

 

[jrista]

The Nikon 500mm rules @ f/32 in terms of actuance:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/1174/%28lens2%29/393/%28lens3%29/891/%28brand1%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28camera2%29/795/%28brand3%29/Sony/%28camera3%29/831

This might lead to a higher summed up score because DxO produces the score from data over the whole range. If this is NOT WEIGHTED with typical use scenarios ... this gives misleading scores while the measurements are correct AND helpful.

This might explain why Canons and Nikons 4/500 have the same scores - I would choose Canon's lens because it should deliver cleaner results @ f/4-f/8 - the typical f-stops I would use.

LOL. This should become the standard response to all DXO threads. "WAT?!"

 

[Pi]

If you look at the test results they are measuring the combination of lens and body. Hard to do otherwise. Makes comparison between manufactures difficult and less than meaningful.

Oh, I know. I've long stated that DXO's "lens tests" are really "camera system tests".

DXO never said that they were "lens tests" only, so I do not see he problem.

 

[Woody]

DXO never said that they were "lens tests" only, so I do not see he problem.

I was surprised by your comment, so I decided to investigate the definition of DXOMark Score. This is what is said on http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Insights/DxOMark-Score/DxOMark-Score-design:

"DxOMark Score can be interpreted as the maximum print size of the average quality. Obviously, any photo can be printed at any size, but beyond a certain point, a larger print does not reveal any additional details to an observer at close distance...

While the Sensor Overall Score describes the results of measurements only on sensors and is essentially related to image noise (for example, a difference of one f-stop offsets the Overall Sensor Score by approximately 15 points), the DxOMark Score is both proportional to resolution (taking optical aberrations into account) and to sensor dynamic range."

It appears that DXOMark considers both sensor and lens performances when assigning a score. So, I guess you are right.

But I still can't get over the fact the Canon 500 mm lens when mounted on a 22 MP FF sensor can OUTRESOLVE the Nikon 500 mm lens mounted on a 36 MP FF sensor. Wow, just wow! Clearly shows how awful the new Nikon telephoto lens is... especially when these prices are taken into account.

 

[iMagic]

[/quote]

DXO never said that they were "lens tests" only, so I do not see he problem.
[/quote]

Uh, the title says "lens reviews". Symantics and misunderstanding? When i see lens reviews i would expect apples to apples comparison and a "lens test" tone to the article. As it stands, the whole article is meaningless.


"Nikon AF-S Nikkor 500mm and 600mm f/4G ED VR lens reviews: legendary performers in the range"

 

[bdunbar79]

If you look at the test results they are measuring the combination of lens and body. Hard to do otherwise. Makes comparison between manufactures difficult and less than meaningful.

Oh, I know. I've long stated that DXO's "lens tests" are really "camera system tests".

DXO never said that they were "lens tests" only, so I do not see he problem.

It's a problem because it's a lens score and nobody cares about a 5D3/500 f/4L II combo score. They want to know which lens is better. And, DxOmark scores it as a lens score, so an average observer would take it at face value. It's deceiving, and an objective reviewing body should never be deceiving, if they are being truly objective. Clearly they are not.

 

[Pi]

But I still can't get over the fact the Canon 500 mm lens when mounted on a 22 MP FF sensor can OUTRESOLVE the Nikon 500 mm lens mounted on a 36 MP FF sensor. Wow, just wow! Clearly shows how awful the new Nikon telephoto lens is... especially when these prices are taken into account.

DXO decided to dumb down their lens+body measurements and to report the results in some metric that they keep secret. From other discussions here, I can guess that it is heavily weighed towards higher MTF's, i.e., it measures mainly what we call "contrast". Then 36 or 22 mp does not matter much.

 

[Pi]

Uh, the title says "lens reviews". Symantics and misunderstanding? When i see lens reviews i would expect apples to apples comparison and a "lens test" tone to the article. As it stands, the whole article is meaningless.

"Nikon AF-S Nikkor 500mm and 600mm f/4G ED VR lens reviews: legendary performers in the range"

You cannot judge an article by its title only. The text clearly talks about combos. Also, you cannot get "pure lens" data anywhere on their site, you always choose a body.

 

[Pi]

It's a problem because it's a lens score and nobody cares about a 5D3/500 f/4L II combo score. They want to know which lens is better. And, DxOmark scores it as a lens score, so an average observer would take it at face value. It's deceiving, and an objective reviewing body should never be deceiving, if they are being truly objective. Clearly they are not.

I disagree. I would say that nobody cares how the 500/4 II performs on the D800, but how I performs on the 5d3 is really interesting. Even if DXO were to publish pure resolution numbers of the lens, nobody would know what to do with those numbers to see how it performs on a particular body (well, some would know).

Their "score" is nonsense, but the number for each aperture and FL (for zooms) are useful.

 

[mb66energy]

The Nikon 500mm rules @ f/32 in terms of actuance:
This might lead to a higher summed up score because DxO produces the score from data over the whole range. If this is NOT WEIGHTED with typical use scenarios ... this gives misleading scores while the measurements are correct AND helpful.

This might explain why Canons and Nikons 4/500 have the same scores - I would choose Canon's lens because it should deliver cleaner results @ f/4-f/8 - the typical f-stops I would use.

I'd like to ask where DxOMark states the Score is summed over the whole range...because instead, I read: "DxOMark Score corresponds to an optimal focal length/aperture combination. The score corresponds to the quantity of information that can be captured by the camera. Each focal length/aperture combination provides a numerical value. The highest value is the DxOMark Score.". They're saying the score is based on the one best focal length/aperture combo. They indicate that right next to their Score, and for all three lenses that optimum is 500mm f/4.

Sorry, but I believe actuance at f/32 is irrelevant to the Scores, which are still BS...

I do not find the text I BELIEVE I have read - perhaps I should read english texts more carefully because it isn't my mother language. Perhaps I have misread the explanation of the METRIC tests which averages the results of different FOCAL LENGTHS - not different apertures.
Sorry for that.

Now I have seen the Use Case Scores (Mid-Light-Score) - whatever that is (clicking on the "?" doesn't provide information):
Nikon 48 @f/5.6
Canon 48 @f/4.0
Sony 44 @f/4.0
perhaps that is a weighted version of scoring ...
EDIT(added): http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/%28lens1%29/1174/%28lens2%29/393/%28lens3%29/891/%28brand1%29/Nikkor/%28camera1%29/792/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28camera2%29/795/%28brand3%29/Sony/%28camera3%29/831

But perhaps you are right: The scores ARE BS ...

 

[Loswr]

DXO decided to dumb down their lens+body measurements and to report the results in some metric that they keep secret. From other discussions here, I can guess that it is heavily weighed towards higher MTF's, i.e., it measures mainly what we call "contrast". Then 36 or 22 mp does not matter much.

The most important factor in their BS Score is transmission, which is why the cheap 50/1.8 lenses from both Canon and Nikon score several points higher than any of these 500/4 lenses. It's only when you have lenses of identical max aperture that the other stuff has any influence. BTW, while the 500/4s score 25, the Canon 50/1.8 on a 5DIII gets 28, and the Nikon 50/1.8 on a D800 gets a 31, and main measurement difference between the 50/1.8s is that the Nikon is 1 P-Mpix sharper (put it on the D3X, it's sharpness and Score tie the Canon). So, the Nikon 50/1.8 is 1 P-Mpix sharper and gets a Score 3 points higher, the Canon 500/4 is 3 P-Mpix sharper, but the Scores are equal.

BS.

I begin to wonder if the 'secret metric' you mention is sponsorship...

 

[weixing]

Hi,
Lens performance result using measurement from different camera body is basically useless since every camera sensor perform differently and every vendor process their RAW file differently.

DxO should come out a standard testing camera for testing lens... a mirrorless camera should be idea since it'll have the shortest flange focal distance and can use adapter for different vendor lens... then the only variables will be the lens and the result can be valid to compare between different lens.

Have a nice day.

 

[Woody]

Lens performance result using measurement from different camera body is basically useless since every camera sensor perform differently and every vendor process their RAW file differently.

DxO should come out a standard testing camera for testing lens... a mirrorless camera should be idea since it'll have the shortest flange focal distance and can use adapter for different vendor lens... then the only variables will be the lens and the result can be valid to compare between different lens.

But they won't do that because a truly impartial score is not acceptable to them.