DXO uh-oh?

[dgatwood]

First of all, 'lacks in the ergo department' is very, very subjective. Yes the grip on the D810 is still too small & not fat enough for my hands, and the D-pad is not as good as Canon's joystick.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I actually prefer D-pads to joysticks. They don't stick out from the camera as far, and as such, are less prone to breakage. I mean, it's significant that the first hit in a search for "5D mark III joystick" on Google was not a description of the product, but rather a discussion thread entitled "5DIII Joystick came off". Out of the entire first page on Google, all but two links were threads and blog articles talking about various failure modes. That doesn't sound like good design to me. A good D-pad can give you the same basic functionality without the fragility. But I'd rather have eye tracking than either one.

 

[sarangiman]

The reason I prefer the joystick is b/c the D-pad requires too much travel for my thumb to change focus point. But neither the D-pad nor joystick are ideal. I can think of a much better way to select AF points quickly... can you?

But given how spectacular the D810 is at tracking the subject across the frame in '3D' tracking mode, the joystick vs. D-pad debate is less of a concern for me as I'm jumping ship. However, I'd still prefer a faster way to select AF point for those situations where AF tracking fails - e.g. in very low light, low contrast subjects, heavily backlit subjects, etc.

Interesting about the joystick breaking. Ultimately I don't care - that can be fixed so I'd prefer function over longevity. But that's just me.

 

[dgatwood]

The reason I prefer the joystick is b/c the D-pad requires too much travel for my thumb to change focus point. But neither the D-pad nor joystick are ideal. I can think of a much better way to select AF points quickly... can you?

Indeed, eye can.

 

[jrista]

The reason I prefer the joystick is b/c the D-pad requires too much travel for my thumb to change focus point. But neither the D-pad nor joystick are ideal. I can think of a much better way to select AF points quickly... can you?

But given how spectacular the D810 is at tracking the subject across the frame in '3D' tracking mode, the joystick vs. D-pad debate is less of a concern for me as I'm jumping ship. However, I'd still prefer a faster way to select AF point for those situations where AF tracking fails - e.g. in very low light, low contrast subjects, heavily backlit subjects, etc.

Interesting about the joystick breaking. Ultimately I don't care - that can be fixed so I'd prefer function over longevity. But that's just me.

I really wonder why Canon doesn't bring eye control back. It certainly seems like fans of the EOS 3 ECF really want it. It would be interesting to have whatever it is your looking at in the VF be focused...that would just rock. I am guessing the system was expensive, at least that's what I'd read in the past...in a film camera, it was probably one of the most expensive things. However in a DSLR, it's just one more expensive thing to add to the mix...maybe it pushes cost over the edge.

 

[zim]

7Dii - same sensor/IQ as 70D but with eye control af, slight up in fps all else as 7D

How would that be received?

 

[DominoDude]

Почему вы ложью, видео точно показывает, почему датчик от Sony лучше, чем Canon.
И почему эти продажи передать все это время? Это не имеет ничего общего с измерениями ДХО, результаты и видео я имею в виду.

Yuriy, no offense but can you translate your native language in Google translation and then post it? Thanks!

I believe "Yuriy's" native language is actually Swedish. For example, he might say:

Jag gillar att ta dåligt exponerade bilder av grillar, bodar och markiser.

Njae, Neuro, svenska är knappast Yuriys modersmål. Vi använder inte det kyrilliska alfabetet. Men vissa av oss är duktiga på att ta underexponerade foton.

Transl.: Nah, Neuro, Swedish is hardly his native tongue. We don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. But some of us are good at taking underexposed photos.

 

[sarangiman]

I really wonder why Canon doesn't bring eye control back. It certainly seems like fans of the EOS 3 ECF really want it. It would be interesting to have whatever it is your looking at in the VF be focused...that would just rock. I am guessing the system was expensive, at least that's what I'd read in the past...in a film camera, it was probably one of the most expensive things. However in a DSLR, it's just one more expensive thing to add to the mix...maybe it pushes cost over the edge.

As much as I love the idea, eye AF never worked well for me on my EOS 3, or any of the Canon camcorders I used to use back in the day. I'd probably fare better with contacts, though.

IMHO there's a simpler, better way to do it. Of all cameras, the Panasonic GH4 actually comes close to what I'm thinking- if you enable an option buried deep in the menus. It's not ideal, but it's a good start. With a little creativity, one could iterate on it or something similar to design a UI for AF point selection that'd be significantly faster & easier to use than a D-pad, or a joystick, or the cumbersome 4-way controllers on most mirrorless ILCs.

 

[jrista]

I really wonder why Canon doesn't bring eye control back. It certainly seems like fans of the EOS 3 ECF really want it. It would be interesting to have whatever it is your looking at in the VF be focused...that would just rock. I am guessing the system was expensive, at least that's what I'd read in the past...in a film camera, it was probably one of the most expensive things. However in a DSLR, it's just one more expensive thing to add to the mix...maybe it pushes cost over the edge.

As much as I love the idea, eye AF never worked well for me on my EOS 3, or any of the Canon camcorders I used to use back in the day. I'd probably fare better with contacts, though.

IMHO there's a simpler, better way to do it. Of all cameras, the Panasonic GH4 actually comes close to what I'm thinking- if you enable an option buried deep in the menus. It's not ideal, but it's a good start. With a little creativity, one could iterate on it or something similar to design a UI for AF point selection that'd be significantly faster & easier to use than a D-pad, or a joystick, or the cumbersome 4-way controllers on most mirrorless ILCs.

I currently don't have any problems whatsoever selecting the AF point with the joystick. I can move it around without ever taking my eye from the viewfinder. The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.

 

[Eldar]

The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.

I use the top right button at the back

 

[privatebydesign]

One of the nicest FW upgrades Canon did to the 1Ds MkIII enabled the joystick to adjust AF point without pressing any other button first, I really like that feature.

 

[scyrene]

One of the nicest FW upgrades Canon did to the 1Ds MkIII enabled the joystick to adjust AF point without pressing any other button first, I really like that feature.

The 5DIII does something similar. I don't know if I enabled it somehow, or if it's part of the current firmware. If you press the shutter button halfway to engage the AF, then use the joystick, it moves the focus points without pressing any other buttons.

 

[3kramd5]

The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.

I use the top right button at the back

I center-press the joystick to return the AF point selection to the center. Doing that unlocks it. Thumb is already there, just press it and then toggle the joystick.

 

[Sporgon]

One of the nicest FW upgrades Canon did to the 1Ds MkIII enabled the joystick to adjust AF point without pressing any other button first, I really like that feature.

I thought all the joystick cameras could always be set up this way :-[

Certainly the 5D could so I'm sure the 5DIII can surely.

By the way the 6D can't. Someone forgot to fit a joystick to mine

 

[privatebydesign]

On the 1Ds MkIII that feature came with FW 1.1.2 in April 2008. Don't know about any other bodies.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

I thought all the joystick cameras could always be set up this way :-[

7D and 70D certainly can - although the 70D's option took some digging out.

 

[sarangiman]

I currently don't have any problems whatsoever selecting the AF point with the joystick. I can move it around without ever taking my eye from the viewfinder. The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.

Wow, you don't have the camera set up to automatically move the AF point when you engage the joystick (as scyrene points out)? I'm no longer surprised you don't have a problem with how slow the joystick itself is... When I shoot professionally (weddings) using the joystick, I'm always cursing myself for missing a shot b/c I didn't move the AF point over fast enough. Making shooting kind of like a FPS video game. This is with wide-angle fast primes, where it's critical the correct focus point is used.

There should be a better UI. Nikon's 3D AF tracking and 1Dx's subject tracking are formidable options, but in my experience the 1Dx fails quite frequently at sticking to the subject, and both cameras start to fail in low light. And Nikon's lack of cross-type sensors becomes limiting for portrait-oriented shots (has trouble focusing on eyes). No system is perfect, really.

 

[psolberg]

boy if canon every scores high on DXO, so many people are going to eat crow when they suddenly praise their accuracy. fanboys. meh.

 

[privatebydesign]

boy if canon every scores high on DXO, so many people are going to eat crow when they suddenly praise their accuracy. fanboys. meh.

But is the specific criticism of DXO methodology incorrect?

 

[Loswr]

boy if canon every scores high on DXO, so many people are going to eat crow when they suddenly praise their accuracy. fanboys. meh.

But is the specific criticism of DXO methodology incorrect?

The criticisms will remain valid no matter who scores higher. The problems are the bias inherent in the Scores, and their unwillingness to disclose their formulae and weightings.

One could argue that I'm a Zeiss fan. I believe their optics are good enough that I've spent millions of (research) dollars on Zeiss microscopes. A Zeiss lens is DxO's top-scoring lens...and I still think their lens Scores are BS.

But some people (including some professional photographers who like to brag about now much money they make) enjoy breathing in the smell of DxO's BS, and then exhale that stench all over these forums.