Nikon's D4 Officially Official

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photogaz

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Aug 2, 2011
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It amazes me as no matter what industry you're in, the top end manufacturers are sitting on top of each other. It's like when Canon are having a meeting discussing what their next SLR will have, Nikon have a mole in the room and vice versa.
 

AprilForever

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Aug 31, 2010
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I love howv they keep mentioning this camera will work at f8...

Canon, are you listening?

Can you make the 1DX work at f8?

And, while you are at it, make my 7D work at f8?
 
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yuuko

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jrista said:
Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...???

Supposedly it's reported that the D4 is one stop better than the D3s, 6400 ISO D4 = 3200 ISO D3s. I guess what remains to be seen is an actual comparison of ISO between the two.

I'm still unsure about the new card format however, I think I'll wait for the D4s that will probably come out in two years probably equipped with dual XQD cards. :D Does anybody know how Canon is going to address using XQD cards? will people have to wait another 4 years for the 1D-X mark 2 to use them?
 

messus

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May 27, 2011
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First, I know many of you don't care about video features in DSLR. But face it, it is clearly here to stay.
Please do not forget that filming with DSLR for real started with the 5D2, and a huge portion of the success
of the 5D2 is due to it's video capabilities. For me both still and video IS important, and I use my 2 x 5D2 maybe
just as much on it's video features as on it's still capabilities.

That being said, I have already pre ordered my 1DX several places to be sure I get it soon.

Resolution and speed between D4 and 1DX is not that different that it would matter for me, and probably not AF either.
BUT, assuming the D4 and 1DX performs comparable on ISO, the D4 could be a game changer in my opinion.

It could be a game changer because Nikon now has given consumers what they have begged Canon for now for years, which is UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO! Even if the 1DX offers less compressed video, it is still not uncompressed. The D4 can with this open up new creative possibilities never seen before. Even if the actual recording has to be done through an external device, the option is there, and those devices are not that expensive.

I really really hope this is something Canon is able to implement in the 1DX before releasing without major hardware modifications!
Otherwise I am tempted more than ever to switch to Nikon, sad to say, but if youre living out of photo/video, you have to have the equipment that gives you the edge on the competition.

Also the 1DX lacks the proper audio monitoring capabilites as the D4 has for movie shooters.

Now I know that Canon has officially announced the Canon Cinema DSLR 4K, which is exciting wrt resolution. But nothing mentioned yet on uncompressed/RAW video out on this camera. And even if it does get uncompressed video, it will cost me a lot to have to buy both.

Just my thoughts, we are all different, with different needs and preferences. For me it's more important to be able to do creative things to an affordable cost, or as low as possible, than to stick to a brand just for the cause of it.

Though, as many others in here, I am also a little suspicious about D4's native ISO up to "only" 12800, and then expandable up to 204.800. Especially with larger pixels than 1DX, even if just slightly.

Either there is a huge gap in what Canons and Nikons perception of what acceptable native ISO is,
or there really is a huge differnce between the D4 and the 1DX, time will tell.

So now we need to be able to compare RAW's from D4 and 1DX, and I think Canon now will be forced to release high ISO RAW files before the D4 hit the streets.
 

Woody

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Jul 20, 2010
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photogaz said:
It amazes me as no matter what industry you're in, the top end manufacturers are sitting on top of each other. It's like when Canon are having a meeting discussing what their next SLR will have, Nikon have a mole in the room and vice versa.

Think about Canon IS and Nikon VR... These two companies are so similar that I wonder if their management often discuss plans with one another. :D They are probably having a good laugh at the Canon vs Nikon zealots.
 

Woody

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Jul 20, 2010
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yuuko said:
Supposedly it's reported that the D4 is one stop better than the D3s, 6400 ISO D4 = 3200 ISO D3s.

They may be referring to jpeg images. The official Nikon announcement states:

"Considered the new Nikon flagship, the D4 renders supreme image quality, a feat accomplished with a new 16.2-megapixel FX-format CMOS sensor, coupled with the latest generation of Nikon’s EXPEED 3 image processing engine to help produce images and videos with stunning clarity and color."

- from http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched
 
P

Picsfor

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Interesting stuff, the QXD card slot will certainly be a game changer in so far as buffer goes. No need to increase buffer - just add QXD - 100 RAW files can be shot without buffer overload, so quick is the write ability of QXD (according to Sony QXD press announcement).

So, for wildlife and sports photographers, this aspect could be a game changer. I still believe the 1DX has the edge with the AF, but the video may be open to a he said/ she said spat that will never be truly resolved.

As for the ISO, Nikon indicate that the working ISO goes from 100-12800, but is expandable to work from 50-204k. 1DX has a working ISO of 100-51k, which is expandable to work from 50-204k. Am i missing a trick here - how is Nikon able to claim to win the ISO war with a working ISO 2 stops below Canon?

My final thought on the matter is this - if the D800 does come with 36mp - i suspect it will also come with a QXD slot, or maybe 2, to facilitate the speedy writing of such large file sizes. If that happens, Nikon will certainly have changed their game in how they're producing and marketing cameras, which will then lead people to ponder on Canon's response...
 

Eagle Eye

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Nikon has several months to design a camera with Canon's 1Dx specs in their hands, and they come out with less megapixels and lower fps? Nikon is trying to get these to market fast so that they can sell as money as they can to impatient people before the 1Dx comes out and takes 70% of the marketshare.
 
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etto72

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messus said:
It could be a game changer because Nikon now has given consumers what they have begged Canon for now for years, which is UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO! Even if the 1DX offers less compressed video, it is still not uncompressed. The D4 can with this open up new creative possibilities never seen before. Even if the actual recording has to be done through an external device, the option is there, and those devices are not that expensive.

I really really hope this is something Canon is able to implement in the 1DX before releasing without major hardware modifications!

My hope is that one of the reason the 1DX was announced so early without a definitive price and the possibility to do a real preorder was to wait and what photographers and competition would react
Hopefully now Nikon gives a good reason to Canon to stop being political with their product strategy
adding clean HD output and Continuos AF in video mode!
 

JR

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Sep 22, 2011
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Well, at least on paper so far the 1DX seem to be the better camera:

Better af system
Better native iso (of course we need raw file to validate)
Better frame rate
A full 2MP more :p

I dont know enought about video to comment but seem the D4 might have the edge here with contrast af and uncompressed video out. But from a still perspective Canon seem the winer here. For me if 1DX is able to match D4 for high iso Canon will have made a "tour de force!".

Lets see the real review now
 

JR

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Sep 22, 2011
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etto72 said:
messus said:
It could be a game changer because Nikon now has given consumers what they have begged Canon for now for years, which is UNCOMPRESSED VIDEO! Even if the 1DX offers less compressed video, it is still not uncompressed. The D4 can with this open up new creative possibilities never seen before. Even if the actual recording has to be done through an external device, the option is there, and those devices are not that expensive.

I really really hope this is something Canon is able to implement in the 1DX before releasing without major hardware modifications!

My hope is that one of the reason the 1DX was announced so early without a definitive price and the possibility to do a real preorder was to wait and what photographers and competition would react
Hopefully now Nikon gives a good reason to Canon to stop being political with their product strategy
adding clean HD output and Continuos AF in video mode!

+1! Man I so hope you are right! That would be very nice indeed! Canon must have known the D4 would be announced soon so it was a good strategy indeed not to commit to everything on their part assuming now they actually do anything about it. Hell even if it was to delay the product by a month, they should look at it! Crossing my finger...
 

JR

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Sep 22, 2011
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Eagle Eye said:
Nikon has several months to design a camera with Canon's 1Dx specs in their hands, and they come out with less megapixels and lower fps? Nikon is trying to get these to market fast so that they can sell as money as they can to impatient people before the 1Dx comes out and takes 70% of the marketshare.

I would not think so. I actually think by the time the 1DX was announced it was likely too late for Nikon to change a lot. It did give them time to tweek their marketing approach for sure (focus on weight, F8 AF, etc). I actually hope now the opposite in that Canon will tweek their design. Either way they are both great camera - though I would love the video AF functionality of the D4 in the 1DX!
???
 
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yuuko

Guest
Eagle Eye said:
Nikon has several months to design a camera with Canon's 1Dx specs in their hands, and they come out with less megapixels and lower fps? Nikon is trying to get these to market fast so that they can sell as money as they can to impatient people before the 1Dx comes out and takes 70% of the market share.

I doubt the early announcement of the 1Dx specs have had much impact on the D4, expect for maybe the expanded ISO to Hi-4. I'm pretty sure that Nikon and Canon both develop their cameras way in advance, and it would be difficult to make last minutes changes to them in terms of advancement in technology.
 

neuroanatomist

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Jul 21, 2010
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JR said:
It did give them time to tweek their marketing approach for sure (focus on weight, F8 AF, etc).

I certainly noticed that Nikon is highlighting the f/8 AF ability. But...I'd be very interested to know exactly how they implemented this. From the published information: "...the D4 maintains the power of the eleven central AF sensors, including one cross-type even if the combined open aperture value is f/8."

There are two possibilties:

[list type=decimal]
[*]It's the sensor. They redesigned their 51-point sensor to include additional sensor lines for the f/8 AF, such that the center point is an f/5.6- and f/8 dual cross-type sensor, and the other 10 points have additional f/8-sensitive line sensors. Canon's previous 1-series bodies had a unique center AF point which had a dedicated f/8-sensitive single-orientation sensor.
[*]It's a firmware implementation. We know that Canon bodies which are limited to f/5.6 will try to AF and sometimes even do reasonably well with an f/8 combination that has pins on the TC taped (or a non-reporting 3rd party TC). Likewise, 3rd party f/6.3 lenses seem to AF ok on the f/5.6-sensitive sensors. So, Nikon may have simply tested the AF performance of lenses slower than f/5.6 on the D4, and enabled those points which gave decent results to AF with slower lenses.
[/list]

Personally, I'm almost positive it's #2. The subsequent statement in their announcement was: "If the combined aperture value is between f/5.6 and f/8, you even have the power of fifteen central AF sensors available, of which nine are cross type sensors." I highly doubt the AF sesnor has individual points of differential sensitivity, such that the center cross point has additional f/8 lines, and the surrounding 8 crosses have additional f/7.1 lines or something like that.

Rather, it sounds like they saw the 1D X announcement with the lack of support for AF, tested the D4 models in development, found that they could get away with implementing f/8 AF for some of the points, slightly-wider-than-f/8 for a few more, and altered the firmware to make those points active with an f/8 lens attached. Unlike redeveloping the AF sensor, that is something that could easily have been implemented for the D4 in the short time since the 1D X was announced (as could the H3/H4 ISO bumps).

More importantly, if Nikon's f/8 AF is a firmware implemetation using existing f/5.6-sensitive AF points, it's very possible that Canon could test and then implement something similar, even prior to the actual release of the 1D X. Perhaps not the same number of AF points, but at least some support for f/8 AF. Then again, even if they can...will they? Previously, it made sense as a marketing strategy to drive people to buy longer lenses. But, from a competitive standpoint, matching Nikon's announced and touted f/8 AF capability may be more important...
 

jrista

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Dec 3, 2011
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yuuko said:
jrista said:
Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...???

Supposedly it's reported that the D4 is one stop better than the D3s, 6400 ISO D4 = 3200 ISO D3s. I guess what remains to be seen is an actual comparison of ISO between the two.

Its one stop better on the expanded end. The D3s topped out at 102k ISO, where as the D4 tops out at 204k ISO. From a native ISO standpoint, the D4 does not appear to have made any improvements over the D3s.
 
B

BDD

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

neuroanatomist said:
D4? Pthth. The 1D X has 2 more MP. It's way better. :p :eek: ::) ;)

Same. I'll likely buy either the D800 or 5D3...most likely the 5D3 if it includes native ISO range of 50-12,800 or so.

The D800 is rumored to top out at only 6400. So it's not really the best choice for low light shooting. And while the D4 has a max ISO of 204,xxx making it's photos shot at 12,800 better than the those using the same ISO on the D3s...I would have expected more native ISO...comparable to the 1D-X's 51,200.

One question I'm wondering about is...Which AF system will track better? The D4 or 1D-X. Looking forwards to the test reports.
 

neuroanatomist

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

BDD said:
One question I'm wondering about is...Which AF system will track better? The D4 or 1D-X. Looking forwards to the test reports.

Based of the AF system specs, the 1D X should be better - more points, more cross-type points, contributions from a higher-res AE sensor, and a dedicated processor for AF/AE. But a lot depends on the algorithms for movement prediction, so we'll have to wait for the empirical tests. When you do finally see them, remember that the lens plays a role too, especially for Canon (faster lenses mean more cross-type points).
 

dr croubie

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Jun 1, 2011
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dilbert said:
To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Bring back the 1200mm f/5.6!
 
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briansquibb

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dilbert said:
To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.
 
C

cfargo

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briansquibb said:
dilbert said:
To look at this another way, Nikon can sell a 2xTC with their 600mm f/4, giving someone a 1200mm lens at f/8 that works on their top of the line DSLR. Canon does not have anything functional to compete with that.

Quick - buy a 1D4 and keep the f/8 for the 600+2x

Price of used 1Ds3 has started to come down - I am mighty tempted to buy a low actuation body for £2500/c $3800 and sell the 2x7D and 5DII which would pay for it.

I know many that no longer use their 1Ds3 preferring to use their 5D2 instead. Some of these are Canon Explorers of Light. If you’re shooting something that needs speed, then go with the 1D4 otherwise the 5D2 for portraiture and landscapes. Just my 2 cents.
 
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