Nikon's D4 Officially Official

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JR

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Sep 22, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

pwp said:
I'm not the only one to express surprise re the weight of the 1DX, Nikon have made a very smart move here putting the D4 on a diet.

Paul Wright

It is very interesting to see how Nikon is banking on a few specific aspect of the 1DX in their leaked spec like its weight and the AF system working at f8. This is resally a Marketing battle at this point. I am curious to know if any of this will make Canon reconsider some small aspect of the 1DX before launch (like the weight) if this is even at all possible...

wickidwombat said:
I cant wait to see a detailed head to head review of the 2 new AF systems between the 2

Neither camera is really likely to cause people to jump ship with the exception of the f8 thing might cause wildlife photogs to finally snap and get themselves a D4 and 200-400 f4 and a x2 TC since nikon actually have the 200-400 not just an IOU :p

+1. I agree with you. Both Camera I am sure will be very good with minor (hoping) differences. I certainly dont plan on selling my "L" lenses so the 1DX will be the choice for me. I still color rendition of the Canon plus we have 2MP more than the D4 - lol :p
 
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Picsfor

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

JR said:
Picsfor said:
Just popped over to Nikon Rumours and they have updated the ISO to show 200-12800 as native, expandable to 50 L and 204k H.

Something just doesn't add up with this camera as 'outed'.

Ethernet output, no mention of gigabit.
Next Gen CF card slot and 1 ordinary Cf slot - why? Canon were always guilty of multi card format annoyances - Nikon had it nailed with 2 CF slots...

$6000 seems a bit much for those specs listed, which in turn means Canon could easily ask for and demand $6800 for a 1DX!

I just went to the NR site and I still see the 100-102k as the standard ISO range. If I clic on the "read more" link on their site, this is the correct ISO range I think. Is it possible you clicked on the old link from his previous post where he said the range was 12800?

I think NIkon will try to hang on the ISO battle so it would make sense they are 102k standard irregardless of the IQ - at least from a Marketing aspect...I think!?!

You could well be right, it did puzzle me that they would take a hit on ISO.

TBH, i see this as a rather insignificant release compared with the 1DX which, when i had a play, really did have a few "WOW" factors. The AF, ISO and control duplication in portrait mode were very much 'i want one'...
 
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yuuko

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

cpsico said:
What it doesnt say is can it do the high frame rate at 14 bit like the canons can and do. If i remember correctly the d3 and the d700 took a hit performance wise when using 14 bit files instead of 12. Looks like a great camera for sure, just not sure it would be worth jumping ship to buy. I might leap at a 4000 dollar d3s :), 12 megapixals is more than enough for reception candids.

I'm pretty sure the D700 and D3 didn't have any performance hit with 14-bit RAW files. It was the D300 that got hit hard with 14-bit RAW files. And if anything, I would think the difference wouldn't be the shooting speed but the time it takes to clear the buffer of the 14-bit RAW files. Correct me if I'm wrong. Exciting times in the DSLR world with the flagship cameras on the horizon.
 

TexPhoto

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Apr 15, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

"Officially" means something very different today than it used to. Come to think of it so does "outed".
 

Mark D5 TEAM II

Proud N0ink 0wnz0r / crApple iFruitcake H4t3r
Mar 5, 2013
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

ZZZ... ??? 1Dx beats it on all spec sheet numbers bar the last native high ISO stop (how useful for the real-world is that anyway?). And where does it say that the previous Noink fanb0i rumor of "9 cross-type f/8-sensitive AF points"? Here is the actual quote from the leaked praise release:

The unit takes the AF mode select switch from the D7000 and uses improved 51-point AF points with 9 cross-type sensor and a beefed up AF module allowing focus with an f/8 lens and faster (up from f/5.6). The AF detection range is now down to EV-2.0.

Either somebody has poor reading comprehension or the PR writer wrote that paragraph badly. But if we take the above literally, it didn't say how many AF points can AF down to f/8 or even if it is cross-type. My best guess based on previous Canon explanations about AF sensor design is it would be just in the center and it won't be cross-type. I like the 1Dx AF sensor compromise more.

The rest of the D4 specs are just catch-up specs at best, nothing groundbreaking. Ho-hum.

12-14 FPS > 10 FPS

61 pt. w/ 41 cross-type + 5 dual-cross type > 51 pt. AF w/ 9 cross-type

100,000 pixel RGB sensor > 91,000 pixel RGB sensor

18MP > 16MP
 
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blarygake

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I'm expecting great high iso performance
Beyond that, when noise does show up I suspect it will be very film-like noise
One area where I wish Canon would improve
 

dr croubie

Too many photos, too little time.
Jun 1, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Canon-F1 said:
:eek:
smirkypants said:
Honestly, I'll take either. They are both better than anything any of us is using now.

well... im sure some here would not trade their mamyia or hasselblad for it... 8)

I'll buy you a D4 then trade you for a Mamiya and iq180 back...


Is it me, or are the two key specs of Megapixels and Frames/Second missing from that NR-page...?

(ok, so as I was typing, I noticed NR has a new post which links to here where it says 16MP at 10fps.

OK, so it's competing against the 1Dmk4 now?
Also, f/8 and ethernet is mentioned, but with no mention of how many f/8 points, and "ethernet" by definition is only 100Mbps, if it's gigabit then they should make a definite point to say 'ethernet'.
 

gmrza

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Jan 21, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

niccyboy said:
Does it have Ethernet out? because is something that makes me choose the 1dx now over our current collection of d3xs for one of my projects. I'm glad the d4 didn't have it so i can finally shift ALL of our work purely to canon now.

The article just says "ethernet", which these days I would assume is gigabit ethernet - I am sure that both Canon and Nikon will source existing Ethernet controllers from one of the bigger networking vendors.

It is looking like gigabit Ethernet is going to be a "must have" for the Olympics. - I would guess that neither Canon nor Nikon can afford to go to the Olympics with a camera without that feature.
 

jrista

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Dec 3, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.

I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...
 

rol11

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Sep 3, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

here is article about introduction of D4 https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442381
 

dr croubie

Too many photos, too little time.
Jun 1, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

jrista said:
Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO?

There's a quote in pretty much every review on any body I read. The words are different, but the gist is the same, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should use higher ISO". If the D300s had ISO 100k, I'm sure Canon could have made the 7D also have ISO100k if they wanted. Certainly it would have been unusable for anything but 'memories' shots, but it still would have looked good in the specs list...
 

wockawocka

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Sep 13, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Both the D4 and 1Dx are cameras that over and above deliver what 98% of all photographers need.

What's exciting is that perhaps, you will never need to buy another body again other than to replace a worn out one.
Even more exciting is the prospect that with so little missing from these two cameras the only way forward is a radical change to the way light is captured. You cannot beat the laws of physics, just work with them.

BTW, High ISO is great for scenes with low contrast. If you are shooting a wedding reception with a light above the bride and groom and the rest in the dark you can't just bump the ISO to fix it as it'll serve to blow them out.
 
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Picsfor

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

jrista said:
Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.

I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...

I think you're missing the point a little with this release.

The only real complaint the Nikon lot have with their D3s is the small MP size. Most of the pros only wanted 16, 18 at a push. We have to remember, at this level we are talking about a tool for a job, not something with which to practice a hobby and enjoy creating art.

The torch was not Nikon's to gain, but Canons to try and get back. Realistically, how many people will jump ship from this to the 1DX? Not very many - it will be enough to keep the Nikon pros happy.

As for how relevant is high ISO in the real world? Whose real world are you talking about?
Yours?
Or the press photographer who gets a grainy picture of a paramedic pumping attending Princess Diana in a poorly lit tunnel at 2 or 3 in the morning? Even as a Train Driver, high ISO was an important aspect of 'my real world'.

These cameras are designed to 'get that pic' that pays the rent under almost any condition, and i'm fairly sure that they will both do that - just that on current specs, Canon have regained the flagship pro series mantel from Nikon.
 

Noink Fanb0i

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 20, 2011
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Some reality check I read in another forum RE: "Highest Native ISO":

Q: So it may be that Nikon (+ Aptiva?) have actually done it again and there's a new step forward in sensor high ISO tech?

A: More likely Nikon's firmware programmers. Changing the higher H ISO's to numbered ones is purely a firmware mod, and can be done at very short notice. Most likely an earlier firmware version had 12800, then Nikon saw Canon had released at 102400 felt that their 102400 was likely to be better than Canon's so any comparison would be in their favour so changed the names from H1 and H2 to 25600 and 51200. It is just a name change, no more.

There is certainly a new step forward in marketing claims. Don't expect the D4 ISO 102K to look like D3s 25K (except possibly in the JPEG output if the in-camera NR algorithms have been improved that much).

In the D3 line, the "H" designations are used when the analog chain is at max gain and the ADC output is numerically scaled to produce the additional boost. This may imply that the analog chain has much more gain capability in the D4, although I can't imagine that would make a significant difference in IQ at those stratospheric levels.

An optimistic scenario would be that a pixel in D4 can contain an equivalent of 64K levels, that is it is full 16 bit. Suppose "base" ISO is 100. ISO 102K means 10 bit shift, that leaves 6 bit useful not counting noise, and maybe about 3 stops of photographically usable DR if noise is taken into account. That makes me doubt 102K ISO is in fact "native" and usable enough for something larger than 5x7 prints. I think 5600 may be closer to "native".

Great marketing, though.

Look at how many people are excited and now expecting to have clean pictures shot in extreme low light, all cause the rumors say "native ISO 102k".


So, in short, people expecting the D4 would be "1-stop better" than the 1Dx at high ISO just because its advertised rumored native High ISO is "1-stop higher" than the earlier announced 1Dx would be in for a grainy & blotchy surprise. :p
 

Noink Fanb0i

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 20, 2011
62
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Anybody can read French? Looks like the earlier rumor was correct, D4's native maximum ISO is a mere 12800 with L: 50 & H4: 204800. And it's apparently a mere 45g lighter than the D3s. :p

7B187BCF10BC439F980086F8CD0853C5.jpg

4FDCC8042532476CBF6B897C31A05992.jpg
 
O

Orion

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I think that the article is wrong. They siomply went to print before the correction came in.

btw, higher res images of ther article:

http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p6.jpg
http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p7.jpg
 
C

Cannon Man

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

The price point could give out that nikon has maby combined the d3s and D3x together as the D4 because the specs are very similar.
 
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Canon-F1

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

here is article about introduction of D4 https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442381

i don´t give much credit to ken rockwell.. in fact i don´t like him at all.

but someone pointed out that he wrote on his website that a D4 article that appeared on the web is fake.

i don´t know.. and i don´t really care.... just saying.
 
J

Justin

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I was excited for the lower weight, but 45g is pretty small. Really nothing anyone would notice. Maybe Canon will lower their price point further to $5999. That would be about the only thing that jumps out at me given the limited inofrmation available that the Nikon would seem to have that the Canon does not (a more attractive price).
 
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