Ebay or Adorama Used?

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Then a reputable seller like KEH, Adorama, B&H, there are lots of them. last on my list is Ebay then Fred Miranda. There is absolutely no buyer protection on Fred Miranda, at least ebay will refund most of your purchase price if you get cheated.

Nearly all sellers on fredmiranda accept paypal. This gives you the same protection you would have if you used ebay (provided you use the non-gift option, of course.)

Not true!! He can send you a box of dirt, and as long as he has the signature confirmation, you are screwed. If I get a box of dirt using a credit card, my bank will chargeback, but PayPal does not cover you unless you purchase buyer protection.

Ebay will refund you if the item is substantially different from the description, but not PayPal. You can buy a moneyback guarantee from PayPal, but how many are aware that you have to pay to get a guarantee??

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/warranty-outside

paypal have a "buyer protection" program that by my reading of the description does not require an additional fee (besides the standard paypal charge) I hadn't seen the "money back guarantee" thing you linked to before, so I can't really comment on it.

So no, you are not screwed if they send you a box of dirt. They do have a process that ends with you getting your money back in that scenario (in addition to the recourse your credit card provider offers)

I'd be interested in seeing the money back clause you refer to, maybe I could send a copy to all the buyers who were left hanging.

Paypal puts out lots of hype about buyer protection, but if you read it closely, there is no substance.

Paypal only refers you to ebay if you get cheated on something unless you have purchased the money back guarantee, which most people are not aware of. I've used paypal now since it first came out, with well over 10,000 transactions, and have always had them cover the few thieves that hooked me on a purchase or on a sale.

It was only because I read and understood the rules very well that I was covered. Ebay once refunded me $25 on a several hundred dollar purchase that was a fraud. PayPal did nothing. After that, I made it a point to use a credit card issued thru my credit union for purchases. I've only had to charge back once when I got a box of junk in the mail, but my credit card company backcharged Paypal immediately after I sent my credit union a signed statement and all the e-mails.

 

[elflord]

I'd be interested in seeing the money back clause you refer to, maybe I could send a copy to all the buyers who were left hanging.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full#13.%20Protection%20for%20Buyers.

"PayPal Purchase Protection (also known as PayPal Buyer Protection) helps you if you encounter either of these problems:
1. You did not receive the item you paid for with PayPal – “Item Not Received” (INR), or
2. You received an item you paid for with PayPal but it is “Significantly Not as Described” (SNAD) (as described below)
"

"13.4 Coverage Amount. If you are eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage."

 

[Jedifarce]

Am I better off going with Ebay or Adorama Used for used equipment? Any advice?

Unless you're dealing with a seller that has a lot of rep points, Adorama is more safe because they actually rate the qaulity of their used products. However, if it's an item you really want or need and it isn't available any place else - like an anamorphic lens adapter - ebay may be your only option.

 

[Jedifarce]

For buying or selling?

If it's for selling, ebay - I think of Adorama as a car dealership. You'll get more if you can sell your used product on your own. Sending in your items to Adorama to have it apraised and quoted is more of a convience factor rather than one of monetary gain. You'll take a hit on the value of your used gear sending it into Adorama. Personal experience, you'll get about half of what it's worth.

 

[Jedifarce]

Clearly, for used or refurbished equipment, Canon, Adorama and B&H are the safest choices.

Folks keep in mind the Canon store is Canon only items while Adorama and B&H will carry the other brands.

 

[Jedifarce]

Thank you for the feedback! (and I'm only an email away for advice and after-sales support if required: [email protected])

Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador

One other thing, a minor complaint. When I sent my used gear into Adorama to be appraised and the rep was I dealing with through emails had no idea where my gear was even though it was signed by somebody at Adorama as recieved. I had to send multiple emails to various departments to track it down within Adorama. Eventually it was found, but why should I have to do that?

'Helen Oster, Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador' are you reading this?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'd be interested in seeing the money back clause you refer to, maybe I could send a copy to all the buyers who were left hanging.

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full#13.%20Protection%20for%20Buyers.

"PayPal Purchase Protection (also known as PayPal Buyer Protection) helps you if you encounter either of these problems:
1. You did not receive the item you paid for with PayPal – “Item Not Received” (INR), or
2. You received an item you paid for with PayPal but it is “Significantly Not as Described” (SNAD) (as described below)
"

"13.4 Coverage Amount. If you are eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage."

13.2 Eligibility Requirements.

a.To be eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection you must meet all of the following requirements:

•Pay for the eligible item from your Account.

•Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible.

•Send the payment to the Seller through:

•the eBay “Pay Now” button or the eBay invoice; or

•the “Send Money” button of your Account by selecting “eBay Item” and entering your eBay User ID and the eBay item number for purchases on eBay website; or

•the Send Money tab on the PayPal website, by clicking the “Purchase” tab, or by selecting the “Checkout with PayPal” button or otherwise selecting PayPal as part of a Seller’s checkout flow.

•Open a Dispute within 45 Days of the date you sent the payment, then follow the online dispute resolution process described below under Dispute Resolution. For Pay After Delivery transactions you must open your Dispute within 45 Days of the date of your transaction.

•Have an Account in good standing.

b.For items purchased on eBay look for either a PayPal or eBay purchase or buyer protection message in the eBay listing. If you see a message, and you meet the eligibility requirements, then your purchase is covered by PayPal Purchase Protection. The purchase or buyer protection message will vary based on the eBay website. The message must appear on the top part of the listing and not under the “Description” or “Shipping and Payments” tabs. If the listing does not include the purchase or buyer protection message, then it is not eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection.


They basically talk ebay, and are silent on off ebay protection. I'd use a credit card, that eliminates any concern of fraud. Many FM sellers will not accept credit cards thru paypal, that eliminates them from any concern for me.

FM does not offer any guarantee or buyer protection, or help with a transaction, even though they are making money by charging sellers. You are on your own trying to convince paypal that you did not get what was advertised. Since a seller can edit his listing, it might not say the same thing after you receive the box of dirt.

Here is one of many posts made by FM buyers who got burned.


Total Posts: 562
Country: Canada

p.1 #22 · Paypal Gift - Please read



ReneMurea wrote:
molson wrote:
Unfortunately, PayPal will always side with a buyer who wants to defraud a seller, and the seller has no recourse, so the same rules about checking references and only dealing with established members applies to using regular PayPal just as it does to using PayPal Gift.
Not true. Recently I sold a lens on eBay and the buyer claimed that he never received it, though the tracking number showed "delivered". He opened the case and it was closed in my favor the same day. I always pay extra for delivery confirmation not to mention the pictures I take when I pack the goods and seal the box. This way no one can claim I sent out a brick instead of a lens.

Rene:
What applies to Ebay purchases does not necessarily apply to outside Ebay like here.
Last year, I bought a lens on this forum paid withregulat Paypal.Never received the lens ,contacted Paypal , won my case but the guy had emptied his bank account so I got an email saying that
when he replenishes (yeah right) his bank account , then and only then, they will refund.
Thanks to some members,they tracked him down and I eventually got my lens,only due to the
diligence of this community.
Sorry,long but true story.


As you can see, Paypal may not refund, they try to get the money back out of the sellers account, but if he has emptied it ...

Beware of Paypal's silence on issues outside of ebay.

 

[elflord]

Here is the relevant clause:

Send the payment to the Seller through:
[...]
•the Send Money tab on the PayPal website, by clicking the “Purchase” tab, or by selecting the “Checkout with PayPal” button or otherwise selecting PayPal as part of a Seller’s checkout flow.
[/i]

They basically talk ebay, and are silent on off ebay protection. I'd use a credit card, that eliminates any concern of fraud. Many FM sellers will not accept credit cards thru paypal, that eliminates them from any concern for me.

This is simply not true, the above quite explicitly covers off-ebay purchases.

I agree that I would trust my credit card issuer over paypal, but paypal's terms of service state that "If you are eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection and PayPal finds in your favor on your Claim, PayPal will reimburse you for the full purchase price of the item and original shipping costs – with no cap on coverage."

That is, PayPal will reimburse you, not "Paypal will attempt to recover your funds from the seller". I think the whole ebay thing is a red herring -- I don't see anything in the TOS which indicates that ebay users get additional protection.

I haven't seen sellers explicitly state no credit cards, but that would be a red flag to me. I don't see why an honest seller would ask for that.

 

[Helen Oster]

.....When I sent my used gear into Adorama to be appraised and the rep was I dealing with through emails had no idea where my gear was even though it was signed by somebody at Adorama as recieved.

We are carrying around 25,000 used items in our warehouse at any one time, and we receive literally hundreds of items for evaluation every single day.
They are delivered and signed for at our New Jersey Distribution Center; from there they are carried by a small truck to the used department which is in our offices in NYC.

I hope this clarifies why it isn't always possible to immediately ID a single item sent in - and it certainly wouldn't even have been unpacked until at least the day after being signed for.

However, you are most welcome to contact me directly if you ever have any additional queries regarding either used or new items from Adorama: [email protected]

 

[skitron]

FWIW, I've only used Adorama once for used stuff, but found their gradings to be representative. Meaning I was pleasantly satisfied with a T1i I bought from them.

 

[Axilrod]

+1 for Craigslist.
I've gotten the following from CL in the past year:
70-200 f/2.8 IS
24-70 f/2.8 (2 diff copies)
16-35mm f/2.8 II
14L II
35L
50L

I got the 85L II and a different copy of the 35L from a local store, both used. 100L Macro and 135L from another local store. But the best deals came from CL for sure. Photography is a specialty, so it's pretty easy to feel out how legitimate someone is by asking a few questions. I've sold quite a few on there too, and of course you get scam emails, but just avoid shipping and whatnot and you'll be fine.

 

[Helen Oster]

FWIW, I've only used Adorama once for used stuff, but found their gradings to be representative. Meaning I was pleasantly satisfied with a T1i I bought from them.

Delighted to hear it, thank you!

 

[Harley]

Really great info from unfocused.

I bought my 7D from Canon as a refurb. It's been amazing and the price is very hard to argue with when you know that the camera has been thoroughly looked over by a trained person.